Some masks better than others

lenny2

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One of the largest and highest level of evidence studies on the effectiveness of face masks on the transmission of respiratory viruses, which was recently released by the CDC, is Jingyi Xiao, et al., Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings— Personal Protective and Environmental Measures, Emerging Infectious Diseases, Vol. 26, No. 5, (May 2020). https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

  • This CDC meta-analysis found that face masks failed to provide a significant reduction to virus transmission.
  • “In our systematic review, we identified 10 [Randomly Controlled Trials] that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks.”
  • There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure.
  • Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza.
"No RCT for Masks? No Problem
— Other forms of evidence are available to judge effectiveness of this and other interventions

...But what constitutes evidence in this context? There has been an almost exclusive focus on evidence from experimental studies, specifically the randomized controlled trial (RCT), which is characterized as the "gold standard" of research, as it allows for the determination of causality. However, the reason such evidence is still lacking, should be obvious – the RCT is neither feasible nor appropriate for determining the effectiveness of mask-wearing in the community in protecting against COVID-19, and moreover, its use will be considered unethical in the context of a deadly pandemic. At the minimum, an RCT would require manipulation of the intervention, by way of the researcher randomly assigning some members of the community to wear a face mask and others not to, and ensuring that both community groups are similar, based on key background characteristics, in other words, controlling for potential confounding factors.

An RCT may be theoretically perfect, but it is certainly not realistic in the context of mask-wearing and the COVID-19 pandemic. What is more relevant, meaningful, and available, is evidence from the observational research spectrum, primarily natural experiments. A natural experiment is an observational study where an intervention such as mask-wearing was implemented by forces outside the researcher's control, such as a governmental mandate, and the outcome (level of COVID-19 infection) can be used to explore a specific research question, for example: Does mask-wearing in the community setting reduce the level of COVID-19 infection? The results can be evaluated for causal inference, using a common epidemiological model known as the Bradford-Hill criteria.

 

lenny2

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"The science supports that face coverings are saving lives during the coronavirus pandemic, and yet the debate trundles on. How much evidence is enough?


"To be clear, the science supports using masks, with recent studies ... parachutes have never been tested in a randomized controlled trial, either."

 
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Phil C. McNasty

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"Face mask mandates slowed the spread of COVID-19 in Canada"

"... This column evaluates the impact of mask mandates on the spread of COVID-19 in Canada, using the different timings that masks were mandated across the 34 health districts of the province of Ontario. Mask mandates are associated with a 25% or larger weekly reduction in new COVID-19 cases in July and August, relative to the absence of mandates.


It didnt slow the spread in Ontario, thats for sure.

And looking at the overall Canada picture it didnt slow the spread from summer into the fall

 

benstt

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"Face mask mandates slowed the spread of COVID-19 in Canada"

"... This column evaluates the impact of mask mandates on the spread of COVID-19 in Canada, using the different timings that masks were mandated across the 34 health districts of the province of Ontario. Mask mandates are associated with a 25% or larger weekly reduction in new COVID-19 cases in July and August, relative to the absence of mandates.


Was going to post this one too. It is good to see them analyze the data district by district and try to account for the different timing of the mask mandates to draw out the effects from the noise.
 
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basketcase

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You guy realize that not all masks are the same?
Surgical masks don't work...
Sorry but that is a dumb statement.

All masks reduce the number of particles passing through, mainly larger aerosolized particles that carry viruses. N95 reduce particle transfer by 95%. Polypro surgical masks are estimated in the 80% range. Even a thin weave cloth bandana will reduce transfer by a few percent.
 

lenny2

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It didnt slow the spread in Ontario, thats for sure.

And looking at the overall Canada picture it didnt slow the spread from summer into the fall

According to what i posted (& you replied to) mask mandates did slow the spread of the virus in Ontario. Here it is again:

"Face mask mandates slowed the spread of COVID-19 in Canada"

"... This column evaluates the impact of mask mandates on the spread of COVID-19 in Canada, using the different timings that masks were mandated across the 34 health districts of the province of Ontario. Mask mandates are associated with a 25% or larger weekly reduction in new COVID-19 cases in July and August, relative to the absence of mandates.


 

Phil C. McNasty

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According to what i posted (& you replied to) mask mandates did slow the spread of the virus in Ontario. Here it is again:

"Face mask mandates slowed the spread of COVID-19 in Canada"

"... This column evaluates the impact of mask mandates on the spread of COVID-19 in Canada, using the different timings that masks were mandated across the 34 health districts of the province of Ontario. Mask mandates are associated with a 25% or larger weekly reduction in new COVID-19 cases in July and August, relative to the absence of mandates.


And that information is useless since new infections skyrocketed in September and October, all while almost everyone was wearing their masks

 

Phil C. McNasty

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Ditto for the rest of Canada

 

lenny2

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And that information is useless since new infections skyrocketed in September and October, all while almost everyone was wearing their masks
How can it be useless when it is evidence that mask mandates lowered infections.

As for infections increasing in the fall in many places, this was predicted by health experts as schools reopened, more people went back to work, more went indoors in cold weather to closer quarters in rooms often with poor ventilation. The varying rates of covidiocy, irresponsibility & lockdown fatigue are among other factors (e.g. Thanksgiving gatherings) that affect the number of infections. Without masks, whose effectiveness is scientifically supported, the fall infections increase would be way worse.

"The cold in northern parts of America will push people back inside, where the virus has a much easier time spreading than the outdoors."


And who is wearing masks indoors?
 

Phil C. McNasty

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How can it be useless when it is evidence that mask mandates lowered infections
You have no way of knowing whether or not masks made much difference
As for infections increasing in the fall in many places, this was predicted by health experts as schools reopened
Schools didnt reopen until September 15th. The 2nd wave was well under way by then
more people went back to work
More people were going back to work in the Spring after the lockdown as well

more went indoors in cold weather to closer quarters in rooms often with poor ventilation
Cold weather didnt start end of September, the 2nd wave was well under way by September 5th

The varying rates of covidiocy, irresponsibility & lockdown fatigue are among other factors (e.g. Thanksgiving gatherings) that affect the number of infections
Covidiocy started in the Spring right after the lockdown ended, and continued into the summer. You have no evidence covidiocy somehow increased on Sept. 5th when the 2nd wave started

Without masks, whose effectiveness is scientifically supported, the fall infections increase would be way worse
You have no way of proving this

And who is wearing masks indoors?
Lots of people wear masks in their workplace(s).

As per usual you pull shit out of your ass that sounds good to you, and then you pass it on as fact
 

lenny2

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You have no way of knowing whether or not masks made much difference
The scientific evidence & common sense tell me that masks work.

Schools didnt reopen until September 15th. The 2nd wave was well under way by then
Kids were out shopping for back to school stuff before then.

More people were going back to work in the Spring after the lockdown as well
Not as many as when kids got back to school.

Cold weather didnt start end of September, the 2nd wave was well under way by September 5th
Not according to this chart:


Covidiocy started in the Spring right after the lockdown ended, and continued into the summer. You have no evidence covidiocy somehow increased on Sept. 5th when the 2nd wave started
You have no evidence that covidiocy, or any number of other factors working together, didn't cause the rise in infections in the fall. Did the rise in infections just happen for no reason? Is that your argument? Like i said:

As for infections increasing in the fall in many places, this was predicted by health experts as schools reopened, more people went back to work, more went indoors in cold weather to closer quarters in rooms often with poor ventilation. The varying rates of covidiocy, irresponsibility & lockdown fatigue are among other factors (e.g. Thanksgiving gatherings) that affect the number of infections. Without masks, whose effectiveness is scientifically supported, the fall infections increase would be way worse.

Lots of people wear masks in their workplace(s).
I was referring to wearing masks in their own homes, apartments or rooms where they live & sleep. Who wears masks there? As i quoted:

"The cold in northern parts of America will push people back inside, where the virus has a much easier time spreading than the outdoors."

So all it takes for infections to rise is people spending more time indoors.
 
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Phil C. McNasty

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The scientific evidence & common sense tell me that masks work
They're not working in Ontario and many European countries right now

Kids were out shopping for back to school stuff before then
What does shopping have to do with it?? We're talking about kids in school when they are sitting close together in class.
Scenarios like this is where new infections rates can rise, not so much from shopping. Another one of your dumb arguments

LOL...do you even read your own charts??!! It actually shows an upward trend starting on September 1st

You have no evidence that covidiocy, or any number of other factors working together, didn't cause the rise in infections in the fall
You have no evidence that coviodicy did cause a rise either. If you do, please post the stats.
I'll be waiting for that
 

Phil C. McNasty

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lenny2

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They're not working in Ontario and many European countries right now
Actually the scientific evidence & common sense tell me that masks work.

What does shopping have to do with it??
Being in a store full of people is more dangerous than being outside away from crowds.

LOL...do you even read your own charts??!! It actually shows an upward trend starting on September 1st
The charts shows many up & down movements before then. A single upward movement is not a trend, let alone a "second wave".

You have no evidence that coviodicy did cause a rise either.
You have no evidence that covidiocy, or any number of other factors working together, didn't cause the rise in infections in the fall. Did the rise in infections just happen for no reason? Is that your argument? Like i said:

As for infections increasing in the fall in many places, this was predicted by health experts as schools reopened, more people went back to work, more went indoors in cold weather to closer quarters in rooms often with poor ventilation. The varying rates of covidiocy, irresponsibility & lockdown fatigue are among other factors (e.g. Thanksgiving gatherings) that affect the number of infections. Without masks, whose effectiveness is scientifically supported, the fall infections increase would be way worse.

Who wears masks at home? As i quoted:

"The cold in northern parts of America will push people back inside, where the virus has a much easier time spreading than the outdoors."

So all it takes for infections to rise is people spending more time indoors.
 

lenny2

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Record high 1,050 new cases today, while testing has dropped. But yeah masks are working great.....LOL

Logical fallacy. You keep making the same error repeatedly. And repeatedly not getting it.

No one ever claimed masks will stop a rise in infections even when people are behaving more dangerously.

What did you expect would happen when people act in ways that increase their risk for infections? Of course the number of infections will go up.

Do you think the number of infections just go up for no reason? By magic, or something? LOL.

"Face mask mandates slowed the spread of COVID-19 in Canada"

"... This column evaluates the impact of mask mandates on the spread of COVID-19 in Canada, using the different timings that masks were mandated across the 34 health districts of the province of Ontario. Mask mandates are associated with a 25% or larger weekly reduction in new COVID-19 cases in July and August, relative to the absence of mandates.


 

Phil C. McNasty

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The charts shows many up & down movements before then. A single upward movement is not a trend, let alone a "second wave"
Yes it does show an upward trend plus a 2nd wave.
Starts on August 31st actually. So 2 weeks before schools opened

 

Phil C. McNasty

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Canada is experiencing a second wave of coronavirus cases as the provinces of Quebec and Ontario report the bulk of the country’s Covid-19 death toll, the Pan American Health Organization’s top health official warned Wednesday.

“Canada is currently facing its second wave, and areas that were not previously affected are now surpassing the numbers seen during the first wave,” Carissa Etienne, director of PAHO and the World Health Organization regional director for the Americas, said at a news briefing
 
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