Sweden COVID-19 Death Rate Lower Than Spain, Italy and U.K., Despite Never Having Lockdown

[lenny2]

LOL...thats children. What about adults??
Whats the point in only posting stats for children??!!

Indeed. What about adults in Denmark, Finland, Norway. You posted no percentages re them. And i already posted this:

" "The lifetime prevalence of asthma at age 5 years was 12% in Danish and 16% in Swedish children."

Did that difference make Sweden have a horrificly higher number of deaths than their neighboring Nordic - Viking - countries?

And what about - actual - high risk - C-19 conditions compared between Sweden & it's neighbours?

Moreover it's questionable that the asthma prevelance in Sweden compared to its neighbouring countries is significant in and of itself. And also extemely doubtful that it has had much of an impact on the horrificly higher death totals from C-19 that Sweden has suffered relative to its neighbours Finland, Denmark & Norway.

"Approximately 6% to 8% of Swedish and Danish children have asthma..."

asthma prevalence by country sweden denmark - Google zoeken

 

[lenny2]

Responsibility of the Swedish left for Sweden’s COVID-19 tragedy

Why have the Swedish authorities not taken more vigorous steps to slow the spread of a virus that has taken such an unequal toll?

www.opendemocracy.net

 

[basketcase]

First of all Sweden has twice the population than Denmark, Finland or Norway.
...

That's why I posted RATES, not raw numbers.

And sorry but death is the significant data point as it is the permanent one. Sweden essentially sacrificed people to absolutely no benefit as they have suffered a similar economic downturn to their neighbours.

 

[basketcase]

Well for starters Sweden has the 2nd highest asthma rate in the world at 20%. Thats 1 in 5.:
...

Funny to see a guy who complains about the validity of science to rely on a study relying on locally reported numbers without a detailed definition of what asthma is.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

And sorry but death is the significant data point as it is the permanent one. Sweden essentially sacrificed people to absolutely no benefit as they have suffered a similar economic downturn to their neighbours

You are missing the point I'm making. Nobody is arguing that Sweden's death rate is good. Its terrible in fact.
But what I wanna know is how come Sweden managed to lower their daily new infection curve without shutting down their economy, and without making masks mandatory?? I have yet to hear a good explanation as to how they managed to do that.

Yesterday they had only 60 new infections. Have a look at their chart

Lets see if you can come up with an intelligent explanation without changing the subject and going back to refer to their death rate

 

[lenny2]

You are missing the point I'm making. Nobody is arguing that Sweden's death rate is good. Its terrible in fact.
But what I wanna know is how come Sweden managed to lower their daily new infection curve without shutting down their economy, and without making masks mandatory?? I have yet to hear a good explanation as to how they managed to do that.

Sweden did (mostly voluntarily) largely shut down their economy by staying home & practice safety measures like social distancing, working from home, etc. Just not quite as much as their 3 neighbours who have had way fewer total deaths while having a combined population about 50% larger than Sweden. Those three also did not, like Sweden, have many wearing masks.

So, at the moment, Sweden is losing badly in the death department.

If Sweden's strategy is ever going to be justified, it may need to avert a second wave while its 3 neighbours suffer the same. That way their neighbours might surpass Sweden's deaths by 50%. In which case Sweden's strategy would still only be considered as good, but not better, than their 3 neighbours.

The only thing Sweden has going for them relative to their 3 neighbours now is they - might - have a greater degree of immunity in their population.

 

[doggystyle99]

You are missing the point I'm making. Nobody is arguing that Sweden's death rate is good. Its terrible in fact.
But what I wanna know is how come Sweden managed to lower their daily new infection curve without shutting down their economy, and without making masks mandatory?? I have yet to hear a good explanation as to how they managed to do that.

Yesterday they had only 60 new infections. Have a look at their chart

Lets see if you can come up with an intelligent explanation without changing the subject and going back to refer to their death rate

Yesterday Sweden had 173 new cases the day before it was 64

What you fail to understand is what I've alluded to numerous times and you either do not understand these important facts or pursposely avoid them to fit your narrative.
The societal norms of Nordic people are far different than those of other European countries, if you understood what that means you would have compared them (Sweden) to other Nordic countries such as Finland, Denmark, Norway who they share so many sociological similarities to and not the other non Nordic European nations that they have a lot less similarities to

If you don't know what they are Nordic people for the very high majority have high trust in their governments, probably the most around the world, they listen to what the government tells them to do mostly without questions. Also Nordic countries have a larger percentage of their population living in single person households.
Now when these important facts are taken into consideration it's clear they (Sweden) are not doing very well like you've claimed and their policies are not working

--------------------------------Sweden-------------------------------Denmark-----------------------------Norway-----------------------Finland
Cases----------------------85,219---------------------------------15.855--------------------------------10,089------------------------7,736
Deaths---------------------5,790-----------------------------------621-------------------------------------262----------------------------334
Cases/Mln---------------8,431-----------------------------------2,736----------------------------------1,859-------------------------1403
Deaths/Mln--------------573-------------------------------------107-------------------------------------48------------------------------60
Cases Yesterday------173-------------------------------------123-------------------------------------55------------------------------21


Cases for the month of July and per million population
Sweden--------------10,905---------------1079/Mln
Denmark------------1,021-----------------176/Mln
Norway--------------361--------------------67/Mln
Finland---------------218--------------------39/Mln

 

[basketcase]

And as was pointed out earlier,

You are missing the point I'm making. ...

The point you are making is that you want to ignore the huge difference in deaths.

Sweden is averaging around 200 new cases per day. Meanwhile Finland is averaging in the 20's, Norway in the 50's, and Denmark just over 100. All of them have had significant reduction in the rate of new cases. The differences is Sweden had a bunch more dead along the way and absolutely no economic benefit from it.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Sweden did (mostly voluntarily) largely shut down their economy by staying home & practice safety measures like social distancing, working from home, etc. Just not quite as much as their 3 neighbours who have had way fewer total deaths while having a combined population about 50% larger than Sweden. Those three also did not, like Sweden, have many wearing masks.

So, at the moment, Sweden is losing badly in the death department.

If Sweden's strategy is ever going to be justified, it may need to avert a second wave while its 3 neighbours suffer the same. That way their neighbours might surpass Sweden's deaths by 50%. In which case Sweden's strategy would still only be considered as good, but not better, than their 3 neighbours.

The only thing Sweden has going for them relative to their 3 neighbours now is they - might - have a greater degree of immunity in their population.

I belong to a soccer facebook group. We have a Swedish guy from Stockholm on there.
I asked him why so many deaths, he said a big factor was because they had so many old people stuck in retirement and healthcare facilities.
Most of those had a life-remaining median somewhere in the range of 5 to 9 months.

Read more here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7369443/

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

If you don't know what they are Nordic people for the very high majority have high trust in their governments, probably the most around the world, they listen to what the government tells them to do mostly without questions. Also Nordic countries have a larger percentage of their population living in single person households.
Now when these important facts are taken into consideration it's clear they (Sweden) are not doing very well like you've claimed and their policies are not working

--------------------------------Sweden-------------------------------Denmark-----------------------------Norway-----------------------Finland
Cases----------------------85,219---------------------------------15.855--------------------------------10,089------------------------7,736
Deaths---------------------5,790-----------------------------------621-------------------------------------262----------------------------334
Cases/Mln---------------8,431-----------------------------------2,736----------------------------------1,859-------------------------1403
Deaths/Mln--------------573-------------------------------------107-------------------------------------48------------------------------60
Cases Yesterday------173-------------------------------------123-------------------------------------55------------------------------21


Cases for the month of July and per million population
Sweden--------------10,905---------------1079/Mln
Denmark------------1,021-----------------176/Mln
Norway--------------361--------------------67/Mln
Finland---------------218--------------------39/Mln

You keep harping on about Sweden's Nordic neighbours, yet you conveniently omit other EU countries.
Answer me this:

Spain population: 41 million
Sweden population: 10.23 million

Spain total CV cases: 384,270
Spain deaths: 28,670

Sweden total CV cases: 85,219
Sweden deaths: 5,790

So Spain has 4X the population of Sweden.
Sweden has 85,000 Covid infections, Spain has 384,000 (rounded off)
Per capita Sweden has less cases than Spain.

Spain has 28,670 deaths.
Sweden has 5,790 deaths
Per capita Sweden has slightly more deaths than Spain, but not by much.

So please explain this to me, Spain completely locked down at the beginning of the pandemic.
They also made masks mandatory in virtually the entire country.
Sweden of course did none of those things.

How can Spain's infection and deaths number be almost identical to Sweden??

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

125 new cases yesterday in Ontario. Masks dont seem to be making much difference:

Ontario reports highest number of new COVID-19 cases since July

Ontario health officials are reporting the highest number of new COVID-19 cases since the end of July.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

 

[squeezer]

125 new cases yesterday in Ontario. Masks dont seem to be making much difference:

Ontario reports highest number of new COVID-19 cases since July

Ontario health officials are reporting the highest number of new COVID-19 cases since the end of July.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

house parties
bars
people not doing what they are supposed to be doing and not wearing masks

but go ahead go out without your mask and do your thing

yeah yeah yeah, I know you wear your mask, you social distance and believe in some lockdown now go lick a handrail somewhere please

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

house parties
bars
people not doing what they are supposed to be doing and not wearing masks

Do you have evidence of that?? Most parties are outdoors now because its summer.
And almost every person I've seen in stores and malls are wearing a mask

but go ahead go out without your mask and do your thing

I wear my mask daily. Its the law now.
Besides many stores wont even serve you if you dont wear a mask

 

[lenny2]

I belong to a soccer facebook group. We have a Swedish guy from Stockholm on there.
I asked him why so many deaths, he said a big factor was because they had so many old people stuck in retirement and healthcare facilities.
Most of those had a life-remaining median somewhere in the range of 5 to 9 months.

Read more here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7369443/

Retirement & nursing homes make up a big percentage of the C-19 deaths not only in Sweden, but in Canada & worldwide.

" "The public needs to make the decision that the lives of the people in these buildings matter and then make the simple sacrifice to wear a mask," he said. "That would solve a lot of this."

'A step back': COVID-19 infections reach all-time high in US nursing homes amid surge of cases in Sunbelt states

A report says nursing home deaths are on the rise, citing 1,706 COVID-19 fatalities during the week ending July 26, a 22% increase from the previous week.

www.usatoday.com

 

[lenny2]

So please explain this to me, Spain completely locked down at the beginning of the pandemic.
They also made masks mandatory in virtually the entire country.
Sweden of course did none of those things.

How can Spain's infection and deaths number be almost identical to Sweden??

Sweden has a very high incidence of people living alone relative to Spain which makes Sweden safer.

Spain didn't make masks compulsory on public transport till May, long after the worst problems with C-19 in Spain. Since then the daily deaths have been generally declining. Over the past 2.5 months there have been very few deaths each day. Spain has practically flattened the curve.

Spain also probably had more visitors from early pandemic hotspots like Italy, China, Iran.

Spain may also have had more "super spreaders" of C-19.

Spain's cities are much more populated than Sweden's which can easily lead to more people quickly becoming infected.

Sweden did largely shutdown their economy voluntarily, many choosing to shut themselves in at home, work from home, not go out shopping or eating, practicing social distancing & hand washing, etc. OTOH Spain did not "completely lock down", as you allege. Nowhere on earth did they do that.

What i've stated in this post lists just a few of the many variables that can affect a countries number of infections & deaths & cause them to differ from those of another country.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

OTOH Spain did not "completely lock down", as you allege. Nowhere on earth did they do that

Spain completely locked down except for essentials (it should be obvious thats what I meant)

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Spain didn't make masks compulsory on public transport till May, long after the worst problems with C-19 in Spain

Spain locked down on March 14th: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Spain

So mandatory masks wouldve been fairly redundant rule to pass because very few people were out and about

 

[squeezer]

Do you have evidence of that?? Most parties are outdoors now because its summer.
And almost every person I've seen in stores and malls are wearing a mask

Common sense is hard to come by, I get it.

COVID-19: House parties contributing to spike in B.C. cases

Provincial health officer Dr. Bonnie Henry says there are two new outbreaks at healthcare facilities

vancouversun.com

People gathering, drinking (can't wear masks while drinking) sometimes can pass on a virus, maybe, probably???

 

[doggystyle99]

You keep harping on about Sweden's Nordic neighbours, yet you conveniently omit other EU countries.
Answer me this:

Spain population: 41 million
Sweden population: 10.23 million

Spain total CV cases: 384,270
Spain deaths: 28,670

Sweden total CV cases: 85,219
Sweden deaths: 5,790

So Spain has 4X the population of Sweden.
Sweden has 85,000 Covid infections, Spain has 384,000 (rounded off)
Per capita Sweden has less cases than Spain.

Spain has 28,670 deaths.
Sweden has 5,790 deaths
Per capita Sweden has slightly more deaths than Spain, but not by much.

So please explain this to me, Spain completely locked down at the beginning of the pandemic.
They also made masks mandatory in virtually the entire country.
Sweden of course did none of those things.

How can Spain's infection and deaths number be almost identical to Sweden??

What you keep failing to understand is that Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Norway not only share so many sociologial similarities, societal norms in countries than any of them do with other European nation. As well all these countries originally saw the spread of the Coronavirus in a same time frame.

As usual more facts that you do not understand, Spain did not lock down as soon as they were exposed to the Coronavirus pandemic
What you keep ignoring when comparing Sweden to all the other countries such as UK, Netherlands, Italy, France, Spain and Belgium that some uneducated and irrational looney tunes have tried to compare them to from the beginning as a way to reopen businesses and now as a way to undermine future shutdowns is that in every single one of those countries they either waited until their healthcare system was overwhelmed or they waited way too long before instituting proper measures to combat the Coronavirus, which had a significant affect on the number of cases and ultimately on the number of deaths in their countries.

As well when you're comparing Sweden to Spain, there is a large population difference as Spain is almost 5X more populated than Sweden, meanwhile they are very close in land size, making it a large difference in country population density than Sweden.
Sweden also has a lot more of their population living in single households than Spain does. Which both of these two facts have a significant affect on the spread of the Coronavirus.

An important note out of the countries that Sweden was ignorantly and irrationaly being compared to at the beginning, some of them have been taken out of the list and not mentioned anymore because Sweden has surpassed them in both the number of cases/million as well as number of deaths/million. France and Netherlands
The Swedish failure continues.

 

[basketcase]

You keep harping on about Sweden's Nordic neighbours, yet you conveniently omit other EU countries.
...

Another attempt to avoid discussing how much higher Sweden's death rate was compared to their neighbours?