I think they took over in 2015, so 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 21 is 7 years. And that's if everything goes right. Let's talk then, LOL.That would actually only make it 6 years. If by next year, the team has lot's of promise, and lot's of salary room coming up, my guess if they give him that 6 year to complete the plan. 2021 will be year 6 for him.
AA inherited the best farm team in all of MLB. He didn't just instantly make his team better by joining them and his job just got easier with the depth and talent at his disposal.I think they took over in 2015, so 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 21 is 7 years. And that's if everything goes right. Let's talk then, LOL.
BTW, does "completing" the plan mean having merely a competitive team that might make the playoffs or a serious contender to win the AL? For 7 goddamn years, they'd better be at least as good as AA's teams. Speaking of which, I wish we had Atlanta's potential. He has done extremely well in a very short time frame.
Someone else said that the Jays have the best farm system, now you say Atlanta. Another way to look at it is, AA knows how to work with what strengths he inherited and did not feel the need to make over the team in his image. A good farm system does not mean they become solid major league players overnight. The Braves went from 70-92 to 90-72. I doubt that 20 game turn around was all due to the farm. He had to have made a lot of good moves. If it were so easy with that farm system, the previous GM did not survive, so it is not a slam dunk. But I understand your point.AA inherited the best farm team in all of MLB. He didn't just instantly make his team better by joining them and his job just got easier with the depth and talent at his disposal.
That has yet to be proven and it won't be proven any time soon since they actually have to make it to the majors and make an impact. It hasn't happened yet and will probably take another year or two at best. And their best product, the one that is deemed the saviour is an AA pick. The jury is still out as to shapeero's acumen in regards to drafting and development. Gurriel alone does not make shapeero a genius.As for your earlier post, you are right about the MLB drafts and anybody can draft anybody with a pulse and develop a player. What the BJ are doing is that they are drafting quality players and developing them with their player development program.
And they also told us that the Jays were "going for it" in 2018. Yet they did absolutely nothing of any significance to try to improve the team other than pick up a bunch of cheap players and hope that some would have career years, so I don't believe what they tell us. The only reason he told us that was to try to sell season ticket and he could be doing the same here to keep fans interested. If he actually believed last year's team could "go for it" and make a run at the playoffs, then he is a poor judge of talent. So he's either a liar or dumb. Your choice.Shapiro and Atkins have said they they will spend the money once the home grown players are in place and then they will get the vets to help them to win the WS. There's no point for them to spend the money now in 2019.
This point is the one that you are waaay wrong. The window never closes on those teams. They never let their teams wither away. Their fans would never accept it the way Jays fans think a 7 year rebuild is reasonable. Those guys do what it takes to seriously try to win the division (if not the WS) each and every year. When was the last time you saw those teams not acquiring serious talent every single year? And to repeat myself once again, Rogers has more money than the Steinbrenners and Henry in Boston. Ed Rogers personal worth is over $7B, let alone what Rogers Corp is worth. Henry of Boston is worth $1.5B so people saying that Boston can afford it but we can't don't have a clue.as the window will be closing for the red sox and yankees.
I think they took over in 2015, so 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 21 is 7 years. And that's if everything goes right. Let's talk then, LOL.
BTW, does "completing" the plan mean having merely a competitive team that might make the playoffs or a serious contender to win the AL? For 7 goddamn years, they'd better be at least as good as AA's teams. Speaking of which, I wish we had Atlanta's potential. He has done extremely well in a very short time frame.
Ok. Seems kind of modest, more so in terms of the length of time to remain competitive. The teams with deep pockets try to always stay competitive.Atkins took over in 2016 as AA was in his contract year and went all in putting the Jays on that magical run in 2015. Atkins was brought in 2016 after it was apparent AA would butt heads with Shapiro and turned down a contract extension (depending on what you read and believe). The team went to the ALCS again in 2016 so Atkins gets to ride one year of success on AA's team. 2017 was the first bad year and 2018 was the second bad year under Atkins. So you could say they've had 2 bad years under Atkins, and we know for sure what this year is going to be like.
My guess is "completing" the plan will be a team that will look to be competitive for a good 3-4 years or so. A team that has potential to go deep into the playoffs every year for a good 3-4 year stretch.
Something like that.
Ok. Seems kind of modest, more so in terms of the length of time to remain competitive. The teams with deep pockets try to always stay competitive.
And after the 3 or 4 year run do we have to wait another 5 or 6 years until they rebuild again? LOL.
Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong and they'll be great in 2 more years with a low budget in the AL East.
I seem to recall that AA got fired within days of shapeero being hired, shortly after we got knocked out of our 1st playoff year and Atkins installed. Fall of 2015? That is 3 years.Shack, I'm not totally discrediting your argument. I think there's a lot of meat on that bone. I'm simply saying as far as Atkins goes, rule of thumb is GM's get 5 years to win a WS. They're not being judge on weather or not they put ass's in the seats for the first 3 of the 5 year tenure. Again, if goes out and spends money and the moves back fire, now he's fucked because the team has a high payroll and they still suck. In two years if the team sucks, you can come back and say "told you so"...lol.
My recollection is AA was not fired, he left because he could not agree on a new contract. They could not come to terms on how much control AA would have in his GM position. I remember AA having a meeting with Rogers trying to get a deal done. My guess is AA has issues with the way Shapiro operated and was not willing to follow his plan.I seem to recall that AA got fired within days of shapeero being hired, shortly after we got knocked out of our 1st playoff year and Atkins installed. Fall of 2015? That is 3 years.
So WS in 2020? I'll take that.
I seem to recall that AA got fired within days of shapeero being hired, shortly after we got knocked out of our 1st playoff year and Atkins installed. Fall of 2015? That is 3 years.
So WS in 2020? I'll take that.
He's thrown Atkins under the bus and basically said "I'm not the GM. Those are Ross' decisions. He's accountable for the on field product".My recollection is AA was not fired, he left because he could not agree on a new contract. They could not come to terms on how much control AA would have in his GM position. I remember AA having a meeting with Rogers trying to get a deal done. My guess is AA has issues with the way Shapiro operated and was not willing to follow his plan.
On another note, if Shapiro has 5 years to create a winner, he is now further away from it than he was when he took the position. I have no idea what it would cost to get rid of him, but it can't be as much as the Tulo dump cost, so at least consider replacing him. What has he ever won?
Right. Shapeero hired Aug. 31. AA gone within 60 days of shapeero being hired, but he was only set to take over at the end of the season. So AA was gone in less than 10 days after shapeero taking over. No problem with my recollection.You recall wrong...lol.
AA was GM in 2015, Shapiro came in as president near the end of 2015. He offered AA an extension soon after they got knocked out of playoffs (probably just for optics as apparently he was on his AA's ass as soon as he got into town, and the guy just put city in a frenzy with that team) and AA turned it down. Atkins hired in Dec 3rd.
Just curious. Did he bring Atkins in as an underling from the get-go and then promoted him (GM in waiting) after a few weeks. Or was he not part of the Jays' management team at all until shaps forced AA to leave?Ed squeezed out beeston for Shapiro,AA was going forward handcuffed to make moves so he did the honourable thing told them to shove it and he bolted which Shapiro want so he can his Cleveland yes man/bitchboy Atkins
Not only honourable, but also a great career move.,AA was going forward handcuffed to make moves so he did the honourable thing told them to shove it
Right. Shapeero hired Aug. 31. AA gone within 60 days of shapeero being hired, but he was only set to take over at the end of the season. So AA was gone in less than 10 days after shapeero taking over. No problem with my recollection.
or sell the team.
Seeing as it doesn't really make a difference, sure.Well, you said he was fired, and technically he wasn't.
