Allure Massage

Saudi Arabia financed a dry run of 9/11 in 1999

basketcase

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Oh, by the way, new book came out by a Jewish historian (I note this as you won't consider any non-Jewish historians)....
Pathetic claim, just like you have to pretend I'm Jewish. And pathetic you think and author's religion is somehow more important than the content of his work.

Fact is that I've read Rashid Khalidi and destroyed your previous claims with of Walid Khalidi's Fall of Haifa. Sad when your only attempt to whitewash Iran is by lying about other people.



p.s. Pappe isn't a historian. Historians may select which facts to include due to bias but Pappe not only invents history but also justifies doing it.
From Pappe himself:
"Indeed the struggle is about ideology, not about facts. Who knows what facts are? We try to convince as many people as we can that our interpretation of the facts is the correct one, and we do it because of ideological reasons, not because we are truthseekers."
http://www.ee.bgu.ac.il/~censor/katz-directory/$99-11-29loos-pappe-interview.htm

Here is a quote from a historian who you have previously lauded. There are too many of Pappe's inventions documented in that article to post all of them here.
"At best, Ilan Pappe must be one of the world’s sloppiest historians; at worst, one of the most dishonest. In truth, he probably merits a place somewhere between the two."
https://newrepublic.com/article/85344/ilan-pappe-sloppy-dishonest-historian
 

Frankfooter

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Pathetic claim, just like you have to pretend I'm Jewish.
I have never claimed you are Jewish, you have mentioned that you have Irish connections repeatedly, but I would never try to make claims about anyones background here. This is an anonymous board, after all.
But you and fuji both refuse to accept the views of Palestinians, so generally rather then have you repeat some stereotype about how evil they are I prefer to find sources that bypass that criticism.

Fact is that I've read Rashid Khalidi and destroyed your previous claims with of Walid Khalidi's Fall of Haifa. Sad when your only attempt to whitewash Iran is by lying about other people.
Personally I prefer the work of Walid Khalidi, his work verifies a lot of Pappe's writing. And finding historians from both sides who agree give it that aura of credence that I'm sure you'll never see.
(insert reference to Iranian uranium supply here).

Regardless, you are continuing to support 19th century, racist, colonialism.
You should stop siding with the alt-right and join those who support equal rights.
 

basketcase

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I have never claimed you are Jewish,...
You have repeatedly stated that the only people who support Israel's existence must be Jews or connected to Jews and have used that as a tactic to dismiss their points. At the same time you have prominently promoted the Jewishness of people who agree with you. That is a clear double standard.

And I can't speak for fuji but I full accept the view of the Palestinians who are willing to live in peace with Israel. I don't support the views of Hamas or even Fatah on many issues including the way they ignore human rights of their own people and clearly I reject the views of the 46% who support attacks on Israeli civilians(as of Sept 2017 - Q51). http://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll 65 English table.pdf

And your usual double standard shows again. You say I don't listen to the views of the Palestinians but you continue to push a One State peace opposed by 69% of Palestinians. I think you need to listen to what the Palestinians, what Hamas, and Fatah actually say instead of just looking for excuses to criticize Israel.
 

basketcase

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Personally I prefer the work of Walid Khalidi, ...
You didn't like it when his work clearly showed the Arab leadership in Haifa refused equality and full citizenship and instead encouraged their people to flee.

And Pappe is not a historian and his flaws and inventions have been exposed repeatedly.
 

basketcase

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Regardless, you are continuing to support 19th century, racist, colonialism.
You should stop siding with the alt-right and join those who support equal rights.
And your usual fall back. When you don't have facts you make up all kinds of bullshit about Israel and intentionally ignore the massive issues with the Arab and Palestinian leadership.

p.s. On human rights, Saudi Arabia is worse than Gaza and Iran is worse than the West Bank yet you are only interested in going after Israel.
 

Frankfooter

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You have repeatedly stated that the only people who support Israel's existence must be Jews or connected to Jews and have used that as a tactic to dismiss their points. At the same time you have prominently promoted the Jewishness of people who agree with you. That is a clear double standard.
The two loudest supporters of Israel on this board also state that they aren't Jewish, so that pretty much kills your claim. I post Jewish source for you and fuji because you refuse to accept other sources (for whatever racist reason), so I'll happily also post from Jewish voices like Sanders, JWP, B'teselem and Richard Falk but I'll also post from legit NGO's who aren't Jewish. There is no double standard, 80% of Canadians now support BDS.

And I can't speak for fuji but I full accept the view of the Palestinians who are willing to live in peace with Israel. I don't support the views of Hamas or even Fatah on many issues including the way they ignore human rights of their own people and clearly I reject the views of the 46% who support attacks on Israeli civilians(as of Sept 2017 - Q51). http://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll 65 English table.pdf
That's unfortunate, but also about the same amount, 53%, of Israeli's who support extra-judicial killings. 80% also support collective punishment.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/...rajudicial-killingspolls-151108123738192.html

The double standard here is your refusal to consider Israeli crimes as seriously.

And your usual double standard shows again. You say I don't listen to the views of the Palestinians but you continue to push a One State peace opposed by 69% of Palestinians. I think you need to listen to what the Palestinians, what Hamas, and Fatah actually say instead of just looking for excuses to criticize Israel.
The two state solution would have been great a decade or two ago, now its not going to happen. The people illegally occupying Palestine have declared so.
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-C...n-any-part-of-Samaria-to-radical-Islam-503657

You need to listen to what the Israeli's have been doing for 50 years now.
 

Frankfooter

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p.s. On human rights, Saudi Arabia is worse than Gaza and Iran is worse than the West Bank yet you are only interested in going after Israel.
This should be interesting.
List the infractions against Saudi Arabia and Iran that you think are worse then those happening in Gaza and the West Bank.
 

basketcase

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The two loudest supporters of Israel on this board also state that they aren't Jewish, so that pretty much kills your claim. I post Jewish source for you and fuji because you refuse to accept other sources (for whatever racist reason),

Wow are your posts ridiculous. Obviously the facts don't support your world view so all you have is making shit up about other people. Sadly you are the one who is unwilling to listen to either Palestinians or Israelis when they fracture your bias.


46% of Palestinians supporting attacks on Israeli civilians,
That is the actual question. Q51) Concerning armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel, I….

Certainly agree 12%
agree 34%
http://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll 65 English table.pdf

And your only defense is Israelis want terrorists killed in the act instead of arrested. Of course that's not the actual survey question. Despite what Al Jazeera claims, the questions were not about extra-judicial killings. Here are the actual questions.
Since the recent terror attack in Halamish there have been calls for imposing and implementing the death penalty for terrorists. Do you support or oppose the execution of Palestinians found guilty of murdering Israeli civilians for nationalist reasons?

and
And what about those who have murdered Israeli soldiers for nationalist reasons—do you support or oppose the execution of those found guilty?
http://www.peaceindex.org/files/Peace_Index_Data_July_2017-Eng.pdf

Seems not only have you been exposed making a completely immoral equivalence (even if Al Jazeera was correct, do you really think attacking random civilians is in any way comparable to killing terrorists in the act?), you have been exposed as completely wrong. Of course you can't be bothered criticizing that almost half of Palestinians supporting attacks on civilians (and you won't admit you were suckered by Al Jazeera reporting).
 

basketcase

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This should be interesting.
List the infractions against Saudi Arabia and Iran that you think are worse then those happening in Gaza and the West Bank.
Simply put:
Saudi Arabia - 10% Free https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2017/saudi-arabia
Iran - 17% free https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2017/iran
Gaza - 12% free https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2017/gaza-strip
West Bank - 28% free https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2017/west-bank
Israel - 80% free https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/2017/israel

The experts sum it up far better than your ridiculous obsession can.
https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-world/freedom-world-2017
 

Frankfooter

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Sorry but what were you saying about listening to Palestinian views. They hate your idea but you couldn't care less.
Sure, and they'd all love free ponies as well.
That's about as likely to happen.

The two state solution is dead when the side with all the guns and nukes tells them they aren't giving it back to them.
 

Frankfooter

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Freedom House isn't a very legit source.
For your tastes, you could read this:
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/The-radically-flawed-methodology-of-Freedom-House-454794

Even the wiki page lists numerous criticisms.
You should pick less biased sources like Amnesty, HRW, B'teselem or even the UN.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_House#Criticism

Once you find a more legit source we can discuss this properly.
 

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Wow are your posts ridiculous. Obviously the facts don't support your world view so all you have is making shit up about other people. Sadly you are the one who is unwilling to listen to either Palestinians or Israelis when they fracture your bias.


46% of Palestinians supporting attacks on Israeli civilians,
That is the actual question. Q51) Concerning armed attacks against Israeli civilians inside Israel, I….

Certainly agree 12%
agree 34%
http://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll 65 English table.pdf

And your only defense is Israelis want terrorists killed in the act instead of arrested. Of course that's not the actual survey question. Despite what Al Jazeera claims, the questions were not about extra-judicial killings. Here are the actual questions.
Since the recent terror attack in Halamish there have been calls for imposing and implementing the death penalty for terrorists. Do you support or oppose the execution of Palestinians found guilty of murdering Israeli civilians for nationalist reasons?

and
And what about those who have murdered Israeli soldiers for nationalist reasons—do you support or oppose the execution of those found guilty?
http://www.peaceindex.org/files/Peace_Index_Data_July_2017-Eng.pdf

Seems not only have you been exposed making a completely immoral equivalence (even if Al Jazeera was correct, do you really think attacking random civilians is in any way comparable to killing terrorists in the act?), you have been exposed as completely wrong. Of course you can't be bothered criticizing that almost half of Palestinians supporting attacks on civilians (and you won't admit you were suckered by Al Jazeera reporting).
You tried to use bait and switch.
Very cheap and very dishonest.

The AJ article quotes a 2015 report which asks a different question then the the 2017 poll, which is why its relevant.
A majority of Jewish Israelis (53%) also said they agreed with the statement that "any Palestinian who has perpetrated a terror attack against Jews should be killed on the spot."
https://en.idi.org.il/press-releases/12743

You accused me of lying and then tried to use bait and switch with a different post.
That's twice you've been caught lying.
Shame on you, really highlights your moral standing here, doesn't it?
 

basketcase

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Sure, and they'd all love free ponies as well....
Your views are pathetically hypocritical. What makes you think your view on the Palestinian future is more important than the view of Palestinians? Your belief that you know better than the Palestinians makes you no different than the Victorian era colonialists.
 

basketcase

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You tried to use bait and switch.
Very cheap and very dishonest.

The AJ article quotes a 2015 report which asks a different question then the the 2017 poll, which is why its relevant....
Whoops. I followed the link in the article to find the actual data and it sent me to the 2017 data.

My question still stands. In what kind of world is killing terrorists in the act instead of arresting them morally comparable to 46% of Palestinians supporting attacks on civilians?
 

Frankfooter

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Whoops. I followed the link in the article to find the actual data and it sent me to the 2017 data.
Nice try, but bullshit called.
The link in the article goes to the 2015 study.
You've been caught trying a bait and switch.

Your moral values are showing again.
 

basketcase

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Freedom House isn't a very legit source.
For your tastes, you could read this:
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/The-radically-flawed-methodology-of-Freedom-House-454794
Amusing that you use an op ed proving Israel is more free than 80% as a way of claiming Israel is less free. You are amusing as always. And the criticisms come from the nasty governments upset at being exposed as nasty. Your refusal to look at it is because it completely refutes your insane view.

And of course wiki has pages criticizing HRW, Amnesty and B'Tselem. It is also clear that your characterization of the UN means their Human Rights Council that is full of massive rights abusers including Qatar, China, and Saudi Arabia.

But take some time and read HRW's page on Saudi Arabia and Iran.
https://www.hrw.org/middle-east/n-africa/saudi-arabia
https://www.hrw.org/middle-east/n-africa/iran
 

Frankfooter

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Your views are pathetically hypocritical. What makes you think your view on the Palestinian future is more important than the view of Palestinians? Your belief that you know better than the Palestinians makes you no different than the Victorian era colonialists.
My views are supported by Palestinian polls.
57% think the two-state solution is no longer practical.
http://www.pcpsr.org/sites/default/files/Poll-65-English -Full Text desgine.pdf

Sure, most don't trust Israelis to create a one state solution with equal rights, but since the two state solution is dead that's the only option.
Other then the status quo apartheid.

And this view is supported by a previous Israeli PM.
Israel’s former Prime Minister has warned that the country could face a “slippery slope toward apartheid” under Benjamin Netanyahu’s government.

Ehud Barak, who retired from politics in 2013, said Israel “faces a choice”.

“If we keep controlling the whole area from the Mediterranean to the River Jordan where some 13 million people are living – eight million Israelis and five million Palestinians –if only one entity reigns over this whole area, named Israel, it will become inevitably either non-Jewish or non-democratic,” he told Deutsche Welle.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ime-minister-comments-netanyahu-a7801466.html

Wait, make that the views of two ex PM"s.
Ehud Olmert said Israel was "finished" if it forced the Palestinians into a struggle for equal rights.
If the two-state solution collapsed, he said, Israel would "face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights, and as soon as that happens, the state of Israel is finished". Israel's supporters abroad would quickly turn against such a state, he said.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/nov/30/israel

You gonna accuse me of lying for quoting Israeli ex PM's now?
 

Frankfooter

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Amusing that you use an op ed proving Israel is more free than 80% as a way of claiming Israel is less free. You are amusing as always. And the criticisms come from the nasty governments upset at being exposed as nasty. Your refusal to look at it is because it completely refutes your insane view.

And of course wiki has pages criticizing HRW, Amnesty and B'Tselem. It is also clear that your characterization of the UN means their Human Rights Council that is full of massive rights abusers including Qatar, China, and Saudi Arabia.

But take some time and read HRW's page on Saudi Arabia and Iran.
https://www.hrw.org/middle-east/n-africa/saudi-arabia
https://www.hrw.org/middle-east/n-africa/iran
Yup, they are pretty bad.
Saudi Arabia seems to rate way worse the Iran, of course.
Israel doesn't do any better, and has a 50 year record of abuses.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/06/04/israel-50-years-occupation-abuses

Hmm, tough call.
Which is worse, Israel or Saudi Arabia.

Lets see....

Both may have illegal nukes, but Saudi is at least an NPT signatory. Israel, like North Korea isn't.
Saudi's attacking Yemen now, but Israel has been occupying Palestine for half a century.
Only one practices apartheid.

Go on, why don't you tell us why Saudi Arabia is worse the Israel.
 

basketcase

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Your moral values are showing again.
Bullshit. Click on "See the full index>> " and see where that leads.


But speaking of morals, wanting terrorists killed in the act is in no way comparable to the 46% of Palestinians who support attacks on Israeli civilians.
 
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