Divorce

[Perry Mason]

One of his students asked Plato if he should get married.

Plato said, "By all means marry. If you are lucky you will find a good wife and you will be happy. If not, you will become a philosopher."

Perry

 

[managee]

hands down one of the best things your money can buy!

I'm assuming this is sarcasm.

If OP's SO "Just wants to spend money," then divorce could be a pretty good move for him financially depending on what she's spending. Certainly, the younger you do it, the more opportunities you'll have left in the tank both personally and professionally to allow you to rebuild.

Depending on your ages, how long you've been married, the ages of your kids and a few other factors you probably won't be paying support forever, and any new wealth you create after you split is yours alone.

---

All these farts in the wind posts about divorce from the guys who never married or who suggest OP should have never gotten married in the first place are about as useful as a condom machine at the Vatican.

Isn't there a review thread for an SP you haven't seen and don't want to see that needs your wisdummy bumps?

 

[wilbur]

She's a compulsive shopper, and she rages if you say no? She drinks and she has depression? Sounds like someone close I know. She may have a psychiatric problem (illness). My take is that she drinks to ease the depression (which makes it worse) and she shops because she gets a rush and that counteracts the depression. She probably doesn't know why she gets angry, but since you're the only one who's close at hand, you become the target, and you become the rationale why she's not well, and that leads to the solution to her problem: to get away from you. She may have PTSD for some reason, or as somebody else mentioned, extended post-partum depression. She may also be bipolar. But only a psychiatrist could tell for sure.

A visit to a psychiatrist could solve your problem. With medication, she could become a nice (to you) person again. I also tend to agree that with middle-life, hormones change and in some people, that makes the anger reach crisis proportions. I've heard quite a few accounts that, a few years after a divorce, the divorcees seeks to re-establish the relationship, as they eventually remember the good old times, and being middle-aged and single again, maybe wasn't such a good idea after all. In one case, the divorcee had a nervous breakdown, as she realised that her new fancy-man didn't really want to marry her, and her ex-didn't want her anymore because of her walking out on him. In one case, the ex-husband told his ex-partner that he didn't want her anymore because she sold his tools! In many of these cases, I sense a psychological issue at the root of the problem, that could have been resolved though professional therapy, drug or otherwise.

 

[Smooth60]

She's a compulsive shopper, and she rages if you say no? She drinks and she has depression? Sounds like someone close I know. She may have a psychiatric problem (illness). My take is that she drinks to ease the depression (which makes it worse) and she shops because she gets a rush and that counteracts the depression. She probably doesn't know why she gets angry, but since you're the only one who's close at hand, you become the target, and you become the rationale why she's not well, and that leads to the solution to her problem: to get away from you. She may have PTSD for some reason, or as somebody else mentioned, extended post-partum depression. She may also be bipolar. But only a psychiatrist could tell for sure.

A visit to a psychiatrist could solve your problem. With medication, she could become a nice (to you) person again. I also tend to agree that with middle-life, hormones change and in some people, that makes the anger reach crisis proportions. I've heard quite a few accounts that, a few years after a divorce, the divorcees seeks to re-establish the relationship, as they eventually remember the good old times, and being middle-aged and single again, maybe wasn't such a good idea after all. In one case, the divorcee had a nervous breakdown, as she realised that her new fancy-man didn't really want to marry her, and her ex-didn't want her anymore because of her walking out on him. In one case, the ex-husband told his ex-partner that he didn't want her anymore because she sold his tools! In many of these cases, I sense a psychological issue at the root of the problem, that could have been resolved though professional therapy, drug or otherwise.

What a load of tripe.

 

[eternalbachelor]

Quote Originally Posted by eternalbachelor:

hands down one of the best things your money can buy!

I'm assuming this is sarcasm.

Um no, it's actually not sarcasm. I think that buying your freedom from your ex is truly one of the best things one may ever buy. They say that the most significant purchase in a man's life is usually his house. But what good is the house if your wife is in it, and she has rights to nag and control your sex life and ask you for money and take half of the house any time she wants?

And you need to lie to her every day and at the same time be proud and happy that you can share intimate moments with her. It's actually interesting that elected politicians are usually married because being married makes them trustworthy, when it should be very much the other way around. I would not trust a married man.

 

[managee]

Quote Originally Posted by eternalbachelor:

hands down one of the best things your money can buy!

Um no, it's actually not sarcasm. I think that buying your freedom from your ex is truly one of the best things one may ever buy. They say that the most significant purchase in a man's life is usually his house. But what good is the house if your wife is in it, and she has rights to nag and control your sex life and ask you for money and take half of the house any time she wants?

And you need to lie to her every day and at the same time be proud and happy that you can share intimate moments with her. It's actually interesting that elected politicians are usually married because being married makes them trustworthy, when it should be very much the other way around. I would not trust a married man.

Sorry, my bad for the sarcasm assumption.

Although I'm sure you're absolutely right in some cases, you're painting a picture I'd imagine a TERB member named eternalbachelor might have in his mind for what marriage and/or long-term cohabitation of any kind looks like.

I feel like there's a doppelgänger married version of you on some other board talking shit about hobbyists as throwing any money they have down the (proverbial) drain to get their rocks off with some tired, haggered, STD-rife, drug-addled pro. She smiles but hates you and everything about you even at $300/h, and won't spend any amount of time with you, in any context for $1 less. You lie to your friends, your co-workers, your family about this part of your life, a potentially dangerous, in-terms of health and LEA risk - particularly if your career would be at-risk should you ever be caught up in a bust. But at least you get sex whenever you want, as long as you can afford it, and it doesn't take too long to get to where she is, and who you want to see doesn't have another dick jammed in her. The only intimacy and love in your life is something you need to pay by the hour for, that is until your dick stops working and eventually you get to die alone in that house that you own 100% of (equity or debt). Slow-clap, fade to black.

This is unlike those married guys who get to fuck their smoke-show Lulu Lemon-wearing, corporate-ladder climbing wifies raw, for free, before they roll out of bed in the morning and head to work to earn you those Benjamin's to help pay for your house and cars. Or they don't work and fill their days keeping that body tight at the gym or as your (free) personal babysitter, maid, cook and driver. And then, after she cooks your dinner, cleans your house and puts your kids to bed while you're out playing hockey with your bros, you get to come home and fuck her raw again. This goes on long after you're truly unfuckable as a man without the help of dick pills, at which point she also becomes your live-in nurse until one of you dies, probably loved and hopefully still in love.

I'm truly being devil's advocate here; I've been happily married before, and now I'm happily divorced. The in-between happily married and happily divorced-time kinda sucked, but OP asked 'is there life after divorce?' to which I respond hhheeellll YES.

Regardless, end of my rambling and to respond to your point, I do mostly agree with you in that in some cases, a divorce is money well-spent.

 

[SchlongConery]

What a load of tripe.

Such erudite commentary. Thank you for participating in this intelligent conversation.

 

[Samranchoi]

Saw this movie when it came out and thoroughly enjoyed it. I was actually in the audience during the taping of the Dr Phil episode when Kirk Cameron was talking about the movie.

I stayed for the taping of a second episode and ironically it was about the Nicole Simpson and Ronald Goldman murders.

http://spacemov.io/movie/fireproof-2008/

 

[dirkd101]

I haven't read all of the comments, but will add my 2 cents from a guy who has gone through this.

You're fucked, as Family Law isn't based on any sort of common sense known to human kind. It is based on old ideals that a woman has never worked and only ever took care of the household and had babies. If your 3 kids are under the age of 18 and you don't have shared custody, you'll be forking over at least $3k/month in child support payments. According to the law, that is your half of what it takes to raise a kid in Ontario. Since she doesn't work, your equalization payment will chew up the rest of your income. Equalization is a payment made to your ex to keep her in the manner she has grown accustomed to after separation. You don't qualify for such things and must lower yours considerably. The law doesn't care if you pay over most of your after tax dollars to her, leaving you with next to nothing to live on.
While I saw someone say to get an expensive lawyer, I disagree. Get the best lawyer you can afford and like a car salesman, avoid the trap of buying into what they're selling. They will push for counselling and they know a counselor, definitely avoid family counselling. These can run you in the the tens of thousands of dollars, as I've been told by someone who's been there, with no result other than what you already know of, from having lived with someone for umpteen years. They will push for many other things that will slow the process down and add to your bill, like med/arb or just mediation. The worst part is your ex can get a lawyer to comp her, and they will do so, if they smell a buyout in the end. That's when they take their final fee out, leaving your ex with part of what she thought she would get. A female acquaintance who's gone through much of this herself put is succinctly, "fist person who blinks loses", while the lawyers keep on racking up billable hours at your expense, but broken down into 10 minute increments.
Divorce can be messy and if she's been talking to friends, she already knows to get the kids and it's been known that a good lie or two that besmirches your character can go a long way in helping her in this. Keep your cool and record any and all conversations with her. She may even try to rile you up, so she can feel "threatened" and call 911. Remove all hard liquor from the house and keep a minimum of beer or wine on hand. If you have firearms, remove them without her knowledge to a friends or relatives. You don't want to have to add a criminal lawyer to your growing legal fees at the same time.
I say all of this from first hand experience and first hand knowledge of others who have experienced this in a bad way.

Don't despair though, there are those who go through this without any issues at all.

 

[Allwomen247]

Wow. After reading all this, the following saying applies now more than ever....

“WHY BUY THE COW WHEN YOU CAN GET THE MILK FOR FREE”

Stay single guys. Read mgtow.com. Too many marriage horror stories out there....

Cheers

 

[Smallcock]

Scary thread.

 

[joeschmoe]

I feel for you mate. Stay strong, and quit that job!
Short term unemployment is better than life long payments of your soul!

 

[managee]

I feel for you mate. Stay strong, and quit that job!
Short term unemployment is better than life long payments of your soul!

How are people still on this tactic? If he ever gets a job again, he's back to full-support, and if she's got a good lawyer, he'll owe backpay. A lifetime of EI, then welfare or whatever it's called now seems like an incredibly dumb way to give the 'ol FU to the ex.

Plus, mommy and daddy being on welfare isn't probably the best thing for the kid's university fund(s) (etc.)

Separate, then start crushing it at work to make up for what she gets. Keep the new wealth on the DL to avoid an adjustment, find someone hotter to make her jealous of, but not mad, and maybe she'll get herself hitched. I have a buddy who helped his ex make her Tinder profile. Guess who's engaged 2 years later?

The law doesn't say "only she gets to live in the style she was accustomed to..." Child support payments aside, she doesn't get to live, with no expectation to find work, in the lap of luxury while you struggle in poverty. OP says he's got a "steady great paying job." Depending how "great," that could still be a pretty awesome take-home, that'll continue to get better every year (as child support, and spousal support declines).

 

[essguy_]

HI all

Need some advice... I'm sure everyone has a lot of life lessons to offer.

Things aren't going so great with the wife. Lots of discussions about divorce.

I don't want to. However... it's just not a happy household anymore. Can't make her happy. Can't buy her expensive luxury items. She doesn't want sex. Just wants to shop, gossip, and spend money.

My question's are...

Is there life after divorce? I have 3 kids. Can we survive this financial turmoil? She stopped working due to the kids. I'm 40 and have a steady great paying job. I am fearful of the road that lies ahead. Time without my children. Support payments. What should I do?

Lots of advice already but some of it is't good, imo. Do NOT quit your job. First and foremost, you have to take care of yourself and you will need employment because in a divorce everybody but the lawyers lose. I went through this process fairly recently after a long separation (still not officially divorced but separation agreement has been finalized so divorce is a formality) so can offer my views. Best advice is to see a lawyer (or several). Keep looking until you meet one that you can work with. Don't think that you can cheap out either get a GOOD lawyer. Immediately (as in yesterday) start to document EVERYTHING. That means you keep track of every incident in a diary and keep track of EVERY expense. Start to compile a list of assets as well as a list of what you brought into the marriage. If you wife is discussing divorce than likely she has already seen a lawyer and is already preparing. Even if the house is 100% bought by you, it will be considered a 50/50 asset of the marriage unless you bought it prior to getting married. Whatever happens, do not voluntarily leave the matrimonial home without getting legal advice. Eg: If your wife demands that you get out of the house, stay calm, and suggest that SHE leave. Stay calm, and worst case - simply move into a spare room temporarily. But get legal advice asap.

Kids complicate things, especially if they are young. My kids were older so custody wasn't as big an issue - but if and when you do separate - be prepared psychologically because even if you alternate weeks (as I did) it still sucks that your kids are gone even if it's just every other week. Your life will change radically but try to look at it positively. Eg: On weeks that your kids are with your ex, just make use of all that free time (go out with friends, take a course, spend more time on your various hobbies (including this hobby)). Try to insulate the kids from the process. Don't discuss/argue in front of them. My own philosophy was to never badmouth my ex to my kids. I still don't (to the kids) even though my ex-wife was/is an absolute nightmare during the divorce. Be true to your kids but protect them from the BS and they will get through this. IMPORTANT: If you ever suspect that your wife is badmouthing you to your kids - tell your lawyer asap and keep notes. This will not reflect well on your wife if you can demonstrate that this happened.

Another piece of advice: Divorces bring out the absolute worst in people. So be prepared for that. IF your lawyer is good, then he/she will advise you to just stick to facts. A bad lawyer advises a client to lie or exaggerate and that simply drives up costs. (My wife had a bad lawyer, unfortunately). It drives up costs because you have to answer to any false allegation in order to protect yourself.

Divorce is a process with many steps and you want to avoid going to trial if you can (very, very expensive). You'll have a series of meetings (case conferences, 4 way meetings (not to be confused with activities discussed on this board!!)) all with the intent to reach some sort of settlement without going to trial. A good family court judge (who will preside during case conferences) will try to drive the process towards settlement. I was lucky and had a great judge during this portion because my ex went a little psycho/pathologically lying during this phase.

Lastly - YES, there is life after divorce. The process absolutely sucks and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy... BUT once you're through the bad stuff you will see that exiting an unhappy marriage is the best thing for everybody involved. It will be good for you, and it will even be good for the kids.

 

[essguy_]

I feel for you mate. Stay strong, and quit that job!
Short term unemployment is better than life long payments of your soul!

This is not good advice, in my opinion. In fact, I would suggest that you try to concentrate on work because the divorce will distract you and negatively affect every aspect of your life (including work performance) for a short period. You mention that your wife stopped work when the kids came. Is she still capable of work? If so, then SHE should get a job. Divorce is a financial earthquake and you want to come out of it as best you can. You WILL need a job going forward, and you already have a good one. Keep it.

 

[essguy_]

How are people still on this tactic? If he ever gets a job again, he's back to full-support, and if she's got a good lawyer, he'll owe backpay. A lifetime of EI, then welfare or whatever it's called now seems like an incredibly dumb way to give the 'ol FU to the ex.

Plus, mommy and daddy being on welfare isn't probably the best thing for the kid's university fund(s) (etc.)

Separate, then start crushing it at work to make up for what she gets. Keep the new wealth on the DL to avoid an adjustment, find someone hotter to make her jealous of, but not mad, and maybe she'll get herself hitched. I have a buddy who helped his ex make her Tinder profile. Guess who's engaged 2 years later?

The law doesn't say "only she gets to live in the style she was accustomed to..." Child support payments aside, she doesn't get to live, with no expectation to find work, in the lap of luxury while you struggle in poverty. OP says he's got a "steady great paying job." Depending how "great," that could still be a pretty awesome take-home, that'll continue to get better every year (as child support, and spousal support declines).

Great post! Yes, child support does not go on forever and depends upon custody arrangements. Spousal support does have the expectation that your ex finds employment if she is capable of working. She doesn't get to stay home and relax while you struggle to support her (especially if the kids are old enough to be in school all day). The biggest going forward financial impacts are that you go from one household to two after splitting assets. Keep your job, and look at the divorce as a way to start a new and better phase of your life. You can't do that if you're unemployed.

 

[dirkd101]

How are people still on this tactic? If he ever gets a job again, he's back to full-support, and if she's got a good lawyer, he'll owe backpay. A lifetime of EI, then welfare or whatever it's called now seems like an incredibly dumb way to give the 'ol FU to the ex.

Plus, mommy and daddy being on welfare isn't probably the best thing for the kid's university fund(s) (etc.)

Separate, then start crushing it at work to make up for what she gets. Keep the new wealth on the DL to avoid an adjustment, find someone hotter to make her jealous of, but not mad, and maybe she'll get herself hitched. I have a buddy who helped his ex make her Tinder profile. Guess who's engaged 2 years later?

The law doesn't say "only she gets to live in the style she was accustomed to..." Child support payments aside, she doesn't get to live, with no expectation to find work, in the lap of luxury while you struggle in poverty. OP says he's got a "steady great paying job." Depending how "great," that could still be a pretty awesome take-home, that'll continue to get better every year (as child support, and spousal support declines).

Lots of advice already but some of it is't good, imo. Do NOT quit your job. First and foremost, you have to take care of yourself and you will need employment because in a divorce everybody but the lawyers lose. I went through this process fairly recently after a long separation (still not officially divorced but separation agreement has been finalized so divorce is a formality) so can offer my views. Best advice is to see a lawyer (or several). Keep looking until you meet one that you can work with. Don't think that you can cheap out either get a GOOD lawyer. Immediately (as in yesterday) start to document EVERYTHING. That means you keep track of every incident in a diary and keep track of EVERY expense. Start to compile a list of assets as well as a list of what you brought into the marriage. If you wife is discussing divorce than likely she has already seen a lawyer and is already preparing. Even if the house is 100% bought by you, it will be considered a 50/50 asset of the marriage unless you bought it prior to getting married. Whatever happens, do not voluntarily leave the matrimonial home without getting legal advice. Eg: If your wife demands that you get out of the house, stay calm, and suggest that SHE leave. Stay calm, and worst case - simply move into a spare room temporarily. But get legal advice asap.

Kids complicate things, especially if they are young. My kids were older so custody wasn't as big an issue - but if and when you do separate - be prepared psychologically because even if you alternate weeks (as I did) it still sucks that your kids are gone even if it's just every other week. Your life will change radically but try to look at it positively. Eg: On weeks that your kids are with your ex, just make use of all that free time (go out with friends, take a course, spend more time on your various hobbies (including this hobby)). Try to insulate the kids from the process. Don't discuss/argue in front of them. My own philosophy was to never badmouth my ex to my kids. I still don't (to the kids) even though my ex-wife was/is an absolute nightmare during the divorce. Be true to your kids but protect them from the BS and they will get through this. IMPORTANT: If you ever suspect that your wife is badmouthing you to your kids - tell your lawyer asap and keep notes. This will not reflect well on your wife if you can demonstrate that this happened.

Another piece of advice: Divorces bring out the absolute worst in people. So be prepared for that. IF your lawyer is good, then he/she will advise you to just stick to facts. A bad lawyer advises a client to lie or exaggerate and that simply drives up costs. (My wife had a bad lawyer, unfortunately). It drives up costs because you have to answer to any false allegation in order to protect yourself.

Divorce is a process with many steps and you want to avoid going to trial if you can (very, very expensive). You'll have a series of meetings (case conferences, 4 way meetings (not to be confused with activities discussed on this board!!)) all with the intent to reach some sort of settlement without going to trial. A good family court judge (who will preside during case conferences) will try to drive the process towards settlement. I was lucky and had a great judge during this portion because my ex went a little psycho/pathologically lying during this phase.

Lastly - YES, there is life after divorce. The process absolutely sucks and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy... BUT once you're through the bad stuff you will see that exiting an unhappy marriage is the best thing for everybody involved. It will be good for you, and it will even be good for the kids.

There is sage advice in these two posts.

I'll summarize from what both of these gentlemen have said.

Quitting your job won't solve any problems and will cause you more harm than good.

With regards to your home, if owned before marriage it does become the matrimonial home and its value is split 50/50, without you getting any credit for your down-payment or length of time you lived there before marriage. I myself suffered this.

A good lawyer is key and one that practices in your general area. ie; if you live in Mississauga, get a local lawyer, not a Toronto lawyer because you'll have to go to the office from time to time. Any case conferences will be in the court of the area in which you reside. No point in paying your lawyer to travel to and from the court. An expense that you will have to bear.

Educate yourself on the process. This way you'll not ask questions that will be a waste of time, eating up billable hours and you won't be surprised and feel like you're getting fucked over. You'll still feel that fucking, but you'll know it's coming and it won't surprise you. This way you can separate the emotion from the process and you can keep your wits about you and you'll be able to move on quicker.

You'll feel like your kids uncle if she works them to get full custody. Don't give up, push for shared and never, ever bad mouth your cunt ex in front of them.

 

[freedom3]

How are people still on this tactic? If he ever gets a job again, he's back to full-support, and if she's got a good lawyer, he'll owe backpay. A lifetime of EI, then welfare or whatever it's called now seems like an incredibly dumb way to give the 'ol FU to the ex.

Plus, mommy and daddy being on welfare isn't probably the best thing for the kid's university fund(s) (etc.)

Separate, then start crushing it at work to make up for what she gets. Keep the new wealth on the DL to avoid an adjustment, find someone hotter to make her jealous of, but not mad, and maybe she'll get herself hitched. I have a buddy who helped his ex make her Tinder profile. Guess who's engaged 2 years later?

The law doesn't say "only she gets to live in the style she was accustomed to..." Child support payments aside, she doesn't get to live, with no expectation to find work, in the lap of luxury while you struggle in poverty. OP says he's got a "steady great paying job." Depending how "great," that could still be a pretty awesome take-home, that'll continue to get better every year (as child support, and spousal support declines).

-Quiting your job prevents the divorce in the first place. All of a sudden, any lawyer she talks to will tell her that he will get the kids, spousal support, and child support. Guess who doesn't want to get divorced anymore?

-If you later crush it at work, she gets that too. "Keep it on the DL" = go to jail for filing a false affidavit.

 

[essguy_]

Another piece of advice: If you're not already a member - join a gym and use it. If not a gym, just make sure you keep active and fit. Divorce/Separation/unhappy marriage is total shit-show, very stressful and the second best way to work off stress is to work out... hard. Make sure YOU take care of yourself because nobody else will. The divorce process itself (if you end up going that route) is mentally and even physically exhausting - so again, maintaining a healthy lifestyle will help.

 

[essguy_]

-Quiting your job prevents the divorce in the first place. All of a sudden, any lawyer she talks to will tell her that he will get the kids, spousal support, and child support. Guess who doesn't want to get divorced anymore?

-If you later crush it at work, she gets that too. "Keep it on the DL" = go to jail for filing a false affidavit.

Disagree. First of all, if the marriage is unhappy then why wouldn't you want to get divorced? Yes, the OP said that he doesn't want divorce - but there are other ways to avoid divorce short of quitting your job. Not a big believer in it - but marriage counselling works for some couples. IF you quit your job to maintain the so called marriage - then you are letting your wife dictate and control your life - plus you are both unemployed, so will have to scramble for funds.

Look out for yourself and your kids and that means STAY EMPLOYED.