You believe wrong. The plan (like every organization would do) is to see what kind of starter he would be. If he doesn't fair all that well there, yes he will be put back as a closer where he could be become the next rivera.
Blue Jays: 2015 edition
- Thread starter shack
- Start date
MLB W-L When Leading
Year A7In A8In
2013 .897 .945 (up to date of publishing of article)
2010 .917 .955
2005 .904 .955
2000 .900 .950
1995 .898 .947
1990 .914 .955
1985 .906 .948
1980 .897 .946
1975 .903 .949
1970 .895 .944
1965 .901 .950
1960 .899 .947
From 1960 to now, when the use of relievers was far different than it is now,
the %age of wins after 7th/8th innings has remained basically unchanged.
A great closer is a luxury, an above average starter is far more important to the success of a ballclub than a closer.
Why would you have an inpenetrable, valuable safe to keep all your riches in, if you had no valuables to save?
In other words, why would you have a closer in your bullpen when you don't have leads to hand him to protect?
A7In=After 7th inning
A8In=After 8th inning
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-flawed-importance-of-the-closer/
Year A7In A8In
2013 .897 .945 (up to date of publishing of article)
2010 .917 .955
2005 .904 .955
2000 .900 .950
1995 .898 .947
1990 .914 .955
1985 .906 .948
1980 .897 .946
1975 .903 .949
1970 .895 .944
1965 .901 .950
1960 .899 .947
From 1960 to now, when the use of relievers was far different than it is now,
the %age of wins after 7th/8th innings has remained basically unchanged.
A great closer is a luxury, an above average starter is far more important to the success of a ballclub than a closer.
Why would you have an inpenetrable, valuable safe to keep all your riches in, if you had no valuables to save?
In other words, why would you have a closer in your bullpen when you don't have leads to hand him to protect?
A7In=After 7th inning
A8In=After 8th inning
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-flawed-importance-of-the-closer/
Giving up on a guy part way through a rookie year doesn't make him a failure. It was the Yankees of a period where they hadn't won anything in a couple of decades and were impatient. That sounds familiar. He certainly hasn't lit up the minors as a starter, so why should we assume the Jays are going to spend a lot of time trying to make him a major league starter when he has shown particular success at a pretty important role.
So let me get this straight. You would rather the Jays take demoralizing losses by giving up leads late in a game rather than have an almost guaranteed win once they take a lead into the ninth for the next 10 years?
Anybody that knows baseball knows that you don't mess with a winning formula, especially when you give up a PROVEN closer for a POTENTIAL starter.
Not messing with a winning formula aside.
Quality starters seem to a lot harder to find than quality closers.
So given Osuna's young age maybe they should at least give it a shot to develop him as a starter to see how it works out.
The risk is what happened to Joba chamberlain though.
We shall see what we shall see when we see it... I think AA and Shapero* will let us know when they are ready!
* And what is with this Shap-eye-ro shit? Shap-ee-ro is Shap-ee-ro... always has been and always will be! :wink:
Perry
I'm beginning to wonder if Buehrle is perhaps starting to show his age a bit and maybe its all downhill from here
Had a disastrous start in Pawtucket. But if Buehrle is really hurt, we may have no choice.
Is it perhaps time Jays sign a quality middle/long reliever for next year??
Guys like Loup and Tepera scare me
Guys like Loup and Tepera scare me
this year??? correct you moron.
so what your basically saying is " clayton Kershaw might make a a good closer, and if he does well as a closer, the dogers should keep him there." so do you think clayton Kershaw should be the dogers closer? or one of the best starters in recent years in the mlb???
Right...he should be a closer because he can pitch a good ninth inning..
and lets get one thing straight, I was perfectly willing to have a diplomatic argument about this until you drew first blood with your sarcastic response about me being some kind of TERB GM.
you want to be a dick, just expect get treated like one back.
fucking moron
Last edited:
PAWTUCKET, RI — Four batters in to the first inning of his second rehab start, Marcus Stroman had to bounce off the mound towards the third base line to field a dribbling ground ball. It was almost exactly the same play he was making when he tore the ACL in his left knee five months ago during spring training.
Stroman collected the ball, pivoted to his left and gunned the lead runner at third base for the second out of the inning. It was the first time he’s had to make the play in a live game since that day in March that dramatically changed his season. And he says he didn’t even think twice about it.
So, that’s good. What’s bad is Stroman otherwise had a very rough outing while pitching for the Buffalo Bisons on a humid Labour Day in Pawtucket, reaching his pitch limit in just three innings after allowing four runs on eight hits and four walks, while striking out five.
On paper, the line doesn’t inspire confidence. But as he does, Stroman said he felt superb on Monday—as good as he has all year.
“My arm felt great, knee felt great. The results didn’t say so but my stuff felt unreal,” Stroman said. “I know people are going to say, ‘oh, he didn’t have a good start.’ But stuff-wise, arm-wise, knee-wise, health-wise—I’m ready to go.”
Stroman is probably right about all of those things. The results certainly weren’t great, as Stroman struggled to find the zone throughout his afternoon, throwing just 46 of his 81 pitches for strikes and frequently shaking off Bisons catcher George Kottaras which hampered his rhythm. He appeared to have the most trouble locating his fastball, which sat in the 91-93 mph range according to the radar gun at McCoy Stadium, especially down-and-away to right-handers and inside to left-handers.
But he also had zero physical difficulties in his outing, aside from some excessive perspiration on a 31-degree day that forced him to wipe off his hands several times during innings.
Determining what’s important about this start for Stroman—either the results or the ability—is now in the hands of Blue Jays brass as they decide what the next step is with their young starter. Stroman will meet up with the Blue Jays in Boston and could immediately rejoin the team in the bullpen or be inserted into the rotation to make a start against the Yankees this weekend in his home state of New York. He also could be given one more rehab outing for the Lansing Lugnuts, who are heading to the playoffs. Only time will tell.
“I don’t know what the call is. I don’t know what the next play is. But I’m ready to start. My arm’s ready,” Stroman said. “I feel great. It’s just a matter of getting into my bullpen and fine-tuning. I’ll be ready to go.”
What Stroman wants to fine-tune is the finish to his pitches and his consistency in staying over the ball with his upper body as he delivers to the plate. He thinks that lack of finish was what caused him to struggle to find the zone against Pawtucket and leave pitches up.
“It’s still baseball; I’m never one to sit here and make excuses. I was just a little up in the zone,” Stroman said. “I make really good adjustments start-to-start and bullpens are where I get a lot of work done as far as making small adjustments, fine-tuning and getting back in the zone. So, in my next bullpen I’ll definitely work on it. I’m not even worried about it.”
Stroman’s day started where his last outing—a 4.2 inning no-hit performance for the Lugnuts—left off, with a swinging strikeout. But he then gave up two quick singles and had to rely on the runner he cut down at third and another that was gunned out at home to escape the inning unscathed.
He opened the second with a walk and, after a swinging strikeout, walked another before allowing a single to load the bases. A double-play ball hit to the right side of the infield could have gotten him out of the inning, but Jonathan Diaz’s throw to first base was off-line which allowed the first run of the game to score. Stroman then gave up a single to score another before striking out Pawtucket third baseman Carlos Rivero to end an inning in which he threw 39 pitches and just 19 for strikes.
The third inning was probably Stroman’s worst, as he started it by loading the bases on two singles and a walk. He got his first out on a swinging strikeout, but he left his very next pitch up and watched as Pawtucket’s Aneury Tavarez lined it to left to score a pair. Stroman then got a looking strikeout and a hard lineout to first to get out of the frame, but with his pitch count up to 81, his day was over.
After the game Stroman said he was happy he faced the challenges that he did.
“I want to face adversity now. I don’t want my first adversity to come in the big leagues. I had to battle with guys on, I had to pitch from the stretch—it was tough,” Stroman said. “But it was good for me to battle through that and have to make pitches rather than it just going smooth sailing and then facing that in the big leagues.”
Stroman said he didn’t get to throw all of his pitches as much as he would’ve liked to, which can certainly be a challenge when you have six of them, are throwing to a new catcher, and pitching on the final day of the minor league season for both teams—the ultimate get-away day. He also never found a comfortable groove and tempo, rushing at times while he was on the mound and struggling to get on the same page with Kottaras.
Whether his performance leads the Blue Jays to think twice about bringing Stroman back for the weekend series in New York, which manager John Gibbons said was a possibility, remains to be seen. But if you ask Stroman for his opinion, he’ll give you the same one he’s been giving since practically the moment he got out of surgery.
“I want to start,” Stroman said. “However it works out, I’m just ready to contribute and help this team get to the playoffs. But everything I did this summer, and all my work, went into starting. I’m ready for that workload. I’m ready to go out there and throw over 100 pitches.”
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/stroman-on-rough-triple-a-outing-i-want-to-face-adversity-now/
Stroman collected the ball, pivoted to his left and gunned the lead runner at third base for the second out of the inning. It was the first time he’s had to make the play in a live game since that day in March that dramatically changed his season. And he says he didn’t even think twice about it.
So, that’s good. What’s bad is Stroman otherwise had a very rough outing while pitching for the Buffalo Bisons on a humid Labour Day in Pawtucket, reaching his pitch limit in just three innings after allowing four runs on eight hits and four walks, while striking out five.
On paper, the line doesn’t inspire confidence. But as he does, Stroman said he felt superb on Monday—as good as he has all year.
“My arm felt great, knee felt great. The results didn’t say so but my stuff felt unreal,” Stroman said. “I know people are going to say, ‘oh, he didn’t have a good start.’ But stuff-wise, arm-wise, knee-wise, health-wise—I’m ready to go.”
Stroman is probably right about all of those things. The results certainly weren’t great, as Stroman struggled to find the zone throughout his afternoon, throwing just 46 of his 81 pitches for strikes and frequently shaking off Bisons catcher George Kottaras which hampered his rhythm. He appeared to have the most trouble locating his fastball, which sat in the 91-93 mph range according to the radar gun at McCoy Stadium, especially down-and-away to right-handers and inside to left-handers.
But he also had zero physical difficulties in his outing, aside from some excessive perspiration on a 31-degree day that forced him to wipe off his hands several times during innings.
Determining what’s important about this start for Stroman—either the results or the ability—is now in the hands of Blue Jays brass as they decide what the next step is with their young starter. Stroman will meet up with the Blue Jays in Boston and could immediately rejoin the team in the bullpen or be inserted into the rotation to make a start against the Yankees this weekend in his home state of New York. He also could be given one more rehab outing for the Lansing Lugnuts, who are heading to the playoffs. Only time will tell.
“I don’t know what the call is. I don’t know what the next play is. But I’m ready to start. My arm’s ready,” Stroman said. “I feel great. It’s just a matter of getting into my bullpen and fine-tuning. I’ll be ready to go.”
What Stroman wants to fine-tune is the finish to his pitches and his consistency in staying over the ball with his upper body as he delivers to the plate. He thinks that lack of finish was what caused him to struggle to find the zone against Pawtucket and leave pitches up.
“It’s still baseball; I’m never one to sit here and make excuses. I was just a little up in the zone,” Stroman said. “I make really good adjustments start-to-start and bullpens are where I get a lot of work done as far as making small adjustments, fine-tuning and getting back in the zone. So, in my next bullpen I’ll definitely work on it. I’m not even worried about it.”
Stroman’s day started where his last outing—a 4.2 inning no-hit performance for the Lugnuts—left off, with a swinging strikeout. But he then gave up two quick singles and had to rely on the runner he cut down at third and another that was gunned out at home to escape the inning unscathed.
He opened the second with a walk and, after a swinging strikeout, walked another before allowing a single to load the bases. A double-play ball hit to the right side of the infield could have gotten him out of the inning, but Jonathan Diaz’s throw to first base was off-line which allowed the first run of the game to score. Stroman then gave up a single to score another before striking out Pawtucket third baseman Carlos Rivero to end an inning in which he threw 39 pitches and just 19 for strikes.
The third inning was probably Stroman’s worst, as he started it by loading the bases on two singles and a walk. He got his first out on a swinging strikeout, but he left his very next pitch up and watched as Pawtucket’s Aneury Tavarez lined it to left to score a pair. Stroman then got a looking strikeout and a hard lineout to first to get out of the frame, but with his pitch count up to 81, his day was over.
After the game Stroman said he was happy he faced the challenges that he did.
“I want to face adversity now. I don’t want my first adversity to come in the big leagues. I had to battle with guys on, I had to pitch from the stretch—it was tough,” Stroman said. “But it was good for me to battle through that and have to make pitches rather than it just going smooth sailing and then facing that in the big leagues.”
Stroman said he didn’t get to throw all of his pitches as much as he would’ve liked to, which can certainly be a challenge when you have six of them, are throwing to a new catcher, and pitching on the final day of the minor league season for both teams—the ultimate get-away day. He also never found a comfortable groove and tempo, rushing at times while he was on the mound and struggling to get on the same page with Kottaras.
Whether his performance leads the Blue Jays to think twice about bringing Stroman back for the weekend series in New York, which manager John Gibbons said was a possibility, remains to be seen. But if you ask Stroman for his opinion, he’ll give you the same one he’s been giving since practically the moment he got out of surgery.
“I want to start,” Stroman said. “However it works out, I’m just ready to contribute and help this team get to the playoffs. But everything I did this summer, and all my work, went into starting. I’m ready for that workload. I’m ready to go out there and throw over 100 pitches.”
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/stroman-on-rough-triple-a-outing-i-want-to-face-adversity-now/
You've missed the point, which is THIS:
If Papa Bear is actually hurt and has to miss some starts, who do we send out against Yankees this weekend in his spot? Short list would seem to be Sanchez, Shultz and Stroman and Stroman doesn't appear ready.
Sanchez? Not at all stretched out. Zero chance.
Shultz? Would be able to go 3, 4 max.
Stroman is the best bet of those three.
