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Blue Jays: 2015 edition

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Nad Smith

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Another way to look at it is that Hutch is a so so pitcher on a team that produces runs. The Twins are a so so team for example and all teams are major league....so you can expect our so so pitcher to be hit....the walks more inexcusable.......

We have two pitchers who use their ordinary stuff very well......we have another pitcher with a trick pitch that works most of the time (now)...and we have an all star.......we can ride with Hutch, remember his gems last year like when he beat Yu Darvish 2-0.....He definitely has to take his next start against the A's because otherwise it messes up the Price against the Yankees plan
 
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smitherz

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busterhut said:
Interesting question-if a pitcher is 10-2, why would you be desperately trying to replace him in the rotation? What if he was 12-2? Or 9-5? At what point does a 5th starter with a winning record become a liability? Ever?
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He's a liability if he's not going deep into games .

Hutch has only logged 6innings once in his last 10 starts . This is taxing on the bullpen , your best relief arms will need to go 3 times out of 4 games , or multiple innings , which is bad in the long run. Throw in an extra inning game into the mix and now u have to call up AAA pitchers for a couple days .
Hutch is the reason we're running with 8 relievers , sacrificing a valuable bench player in Danny Valencia .


We're probably splitting hairs a bit but I don't think anyone could argue Hutch is pitching even major league average right now .

A better question is can the Jays afford to wait for him to get it together ? How long until his luck runs out ? He has 9-10 starts left . The whole season could rest on those starts.
 
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busterhut

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True but if it's working do you fix it?
They have lots of bullpen depth and those guys all need work. Three of their 5 starters are able to go deep into games so the bullpen doesn't get much work. Hutch lets the relievers stay sharp with regular work. The hitters know they have to produce with Hutch pitching and they keep their focus. The outfielders get lots of work in. The fans get souvenirs. I think Hutch is more than a Cy Young candidate, his contributions to the overall good of a team could put him in line for an MVP award.
 
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gcostanza

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Perry Mason

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Right now, Hutch and Loup are the weak spots; even Cecil seems to be coming around.

Statistics or no statistics, a winning GM is always looking to improve the team and Hutch represents a big hole -- damn the statistics because we can see with our own eyes just how ineffective he is. If he were pitching for Buffalo I doubt he would be more effective, whatever the win/loss record... which in his case, this year means sweet fuck all!

Loup is a left handed specialist who, although he could be a great asset, is not a huge liability even if he pitches poorly, which he does not. He is just hot and cold and too cold for the BJ's aspirations and challenge this year: they have to minimize all risks... all in does mean all in, else it just means all stupid!

I think Hutch proves the old adage: lies, big lies and statistics! I would not trade him because I believe he can turn it around... though perhaps not this year. Mind you, his stats for 2012 and 2014 are not all that impressive either!

And I think that, in all respects, ERA, ERA+, FIP and WHIP are much more meaningful than win/loss in judging a pitcher.

Perry
 
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ogibowt

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Nad Smith said:
ok..all together now...Hutch has an extraordinary w-l record because of the great run support and not cuz he has pitched like a 10-2 pitcher. The great ones have great w-l records...Price, Greinke, Kershaw, Keuchel (sp) and pitchers from the past Koufax, Gibson, Guidry etc.......

In other words over time the w-l record is meaningful for starting pitchers

Meaningless for closers by the way since they rarely have an opportunity to post a W as they pitch with leads

In the early sixties, a relief pitcher won 18 games.....can you name him? He was a buccaneer
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elroy face.....and i didnt use google, because im old
 
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ogibowt

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SkyRider said:
A pitcher's W-L record is as meaningless as a goalie's W-L record. When Gump Worsley played for the Rangers he was a lousy goalie then he was traded to the Canadiens and became a superstar.
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no, Rockslinger, Worsley was a good goalie playing for an awful team
 
mandrill

mandrill

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Aug 23, 2001
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The Toronto Blue Jays aren’t planning to send starter Drew Hutchison to the minors, but manager John Gibbons says the team can get creative with its starting rotation.

“We’re getting too far ahead there talking about Drew going down,” Gibbons told Baseball Central hosts Jeff Blair and Kevin Barker on Sportsnet 590 The Fan Thursday. “We can do anything we want with these off days. We have a number of them coming up and we can tinker with some things.”

The Blue Jays have four off days in the upcoming weeks: August 10, 17, 20 and 24. Those days provide the Blue Jays with flexibility in terms of Hutchinson’s usage. The team can either skip one of his starts entirely, provide the right-hander with additional rest, or line up one of his starts to create a more favourable match-up.

“Certain guys in our rotation we want pitching on their normal rest when possible,” said Gibbons. “There’s a couple times where we’ll look at a particular opponent, so the off day will give us a lot of flexibility. Where we’re sitting right now, these games are very important so we’ll try and match them up in the best way we can. We’re afforded the luxury with how the schedule lines up, so we can do some tinkering if we need to.”

Hutchison has struggled throughout the course of the 2015 season, despite ranking second among Blue Jays starters with 10 wins. He has a 5.42 ERA this year with 142 hits and 37 walks in 118 innings.

He gave up seven hits, three earned runs and one home run during five innings of work in a 9-7 victory over the Minnesota Twins on Wednesday night.

“The last couple of years he’s been really good at times and then he’s had his struggles,” Gibbons said of Hutchison. “It’s obvious he’s been inconsistent. A lot of times, that goes with being a young guy, but I think it’s coming down to what he’s doing … If (they’re) missing location, it’s a tough night. In saying that, there’s times where he tries to pitch too much like a power pitcher. He needs a little more finesse. It would definitely help him. Back off a bit maybe and try and locate the ball.”

Still, the Blue Jays say Hutchison’s capable of more.

“He’s in the public’s eye right now but he’s winning games,” Gibbons said. “We have a heck of record when we starts. It definitely hasn’t been easy but he finds a way to win them.”

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/gibbons-blue-jays-can-get-creative-with-starters/
 
mandrill

mandrill

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busterhut said:
True but if it's working do you fix it?
They have lots of bullpen depth and those guys all need work. Three of their 5 starters are able to go deep into games so the bullpen doesn't get much work. Hutch lets the relievers stay sharp with regular work. The hitters know they have to produce with Hutch pitching and they keep their focus. The outfielders get lots of work in. The fans get souvenirs. I think Hutch is more than a Cy Young candidate, his contributions to the overall good of a team could put him in line for an MVP award.
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Very insightful. Hutch represents Positive Incompetence, as opposed to the damaging Negative Incompetence that impairs a team's performance.
 
mandrill

mandrill

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OTOH, perhaps the reason Hutch wins so often is that he is the 5th starter and matches up against the opponents' laggards, incompetents, has-beens and scared rookies more often than not. Even though he gets hit hard, the Jays' offence does such a number on his opponent that Hutch wins anyway.

Hutch has roughly similar stats to such run-fodder as Sabathia and Norris, but a far better W-L.
 
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K Douglas

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I don't think AA is done getting pitching. Hutch will probably be out of the rotation come September.
Potential trade candidates: Matt Garza MIL, Ian Kennedy James Shields SD, Jorge De La Rosa COL, Charlie Morton PIT.

Failing that maybe we give Sanchez another shot at the rotation.
 
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gcostanza

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glamphotographer

glamphotographer

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If the Jays sweep the Yankees this weekend and take 10 out of 13 games against the Yanks. Then I would be convinced that they are going to the World series.
 
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