Toronto council votes in favour of Scarborough subway in major victory for Rob Ford
- Thread starter boodog
- Start date
.... yup ~ vehemently (and irresponsibly) opposing something that he does not even remotely understand.
The subway is not going to get built.... What they did today was further delay the construction of an LRT and I feel sorry for the people of Scarborough who believe that the Federal Government is going to give us the money necessary by September 30.
Here's our mayor's in-depth knowledge at play:
so 50 billion to metrolinx, 2 or 3 billion from various levels of gov't for the subway ext, 5/6 billion for electrical maint, maybe half billion for the gardiner, another half for water infrastructure and ZERO savings in other gov't expenditures. are we done for the next 10 years? or will more billions show up next year?
Yep. Pretty much all the old Toronto councillors there.
The last thing they want to to start losing those development dollars and charges to those pesky suburbanites. Heck might even cause increased density outside of the core. That could lead to people having walkability. That's their balliwick.........
Subways Subways Subways! No new taxes!
So which is it going to be? Can't be both.
I have no problem with new subways. Very few of the councilors that voted for this subway will be voting yes when it comes time to pay for all the new subways that are required for this new 21st Century vision of urban living.
I wonder if council is going to stick with this decision, or if they will change their minds again. And how much money are the Province and the Feds really going to come up with. They are fighting deficits and tax increases too.
The circus continues with our Mayor.
So which is it going to be? Can't be both.
I have no problem with new subways. Very few of the councilors that voted for this subway will be voting yes when it comes time to pay for all the new subways that are required for this new 21st Century vision of urban living.
I wonder if council is going to stick with this decision, or if they will change their minds again. And how much money are the Province and the Feds really going to come up with. They are fighting deficits and tax increases too.
I am inclined to agree with Jenn. The subway will not be built because nobody wants to pay for it. This vote only serves to delay the LRT. Ironic that Mr. Anti Gravy Train has his snout up to the trough on this one. As soon as he gets presented with the bill, he's going to walk away from it.
The circus continues with our Mayor.
Better get a bag of depends.
Ford promised that the feds would put in $333 million towards the subway, which just happens to be the same amount the feds put in for the Sheppard LRT. Flaherty confirmed in an email to the star that this money can be moved to whatever transit project council supports.
So yes, for the Scarborough subway to go ahead, then the Sheppard LRT has to die.
Ford doesn't understand the difference between LRT and streetcars.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vCpKUNRBEw
This is a stupid decision that's going to make McGuinty's gas plant shutdown look cheap and respectful.
That is, if it happens at all.
Its quite debatable whether Ford can line up enough ducks before the Sept 30 deadline.
What I find amusing is that the vote is meaningless since it depends on outside funding and taxes. I think we need serious subway construction but that means we all (including 905ers) need to pay for it and no politician is going to win on a taxes for transit campaign. Throw on tolls on the Gardiner/DVP while we're at it.
If you want to pay nothing, you get what you pay for.
If you want to pay nothing, you get what you pay for.
I think he will get it all together. And I'm happy the sheppard LRT will be cancelled. Better to extend it 4 more dtops to McCowan rd and close the loop with the extended Bloor East line. Total. 8 stops. Then go west to York University closing the top of the Yonge/university line.
Take all new developer charges, roll in any extra from the Downtown wards. And start the Queen st line. From Humber loop all the way Kingston rd. Add in the govt fundss as well.
Start with a base and add stations every year until it is done. Once the shovels are in it will be defficult to stop.
Toronto needs to triple development charges. Right now they are charging 50% of what the 905 is charging.,. that is FUCKED!!! With the value of real estate in TO, they should force much higher dev charges. The LRT plan was pretty stupid. Shut down the RT, use buses for 4 years until the LRT was completed? NUTS!!! Of the 1.1B spent here, the Fed and Ontario will get quite a bit back in income tax and HST.. So asking them to chip in is a fair request.
Hope they implement such a plan, and finish this war on the car for good.
Those street-cars are just another attack in the war on the car.
The residents of Scarberia should do themselves a favour and drive along St. Clair West once or twice, and they will be livid that they want to build street cars in their home.
Will they really cancel that Sheppard Street-car line?
Here's a true story.
I actually rode on a TTC bus in Scarborough along Sheppard, and it was an EXPRESS TTC BUS. This bus traveled along Sheppard, but it would only stop at the major intersections. Such as the Sheppard Subway stop at Fairview Mall, Vic Park, Phamarcy, Warden, Brichmount, Kennedy, Midland, Brimley, then the Scaroborugh Town Center connecting with the mini-subway.
So Sheppard between Fairview Mall and Scarborough Town Center has two bus lines, an EXPRESS Bus and a REGULAR Bus. The regular bus is just that, with stops more frequent like a regular bus route.
If they actually go ahead and build that street car line ... will there be an express street car?
No. But knowing the TTC and city Hall, there still could be an EXPRESS Bus on Sheppard to compliment the dedicated street car line.
To many people at the TTC and city hall, this would make complete sense. Build the Sheppard street car line and keep the EXPRESS bus on Sheppard.
The rest of us (if this happens) will be going like ... what the fuuuuckckkk?
They should unequovically cancel that Shepppard street car line, use that money to pay for subway.
But this is the TTC and Tororonto City Hall we talking about. Another big fight.
Yeah-- Depending on the vagaries of municipal and provincial politics, and given the terms of the subway proposal, it still sounds a lot like we are where we were yesterday (err, the day before yesterday).
-Scarborough may get a 3 stop subway instead of a 7 stop LRT, with a few years of riding the bus. Yeah, it's actually less cost efficient and has fewer stops, and will give everybody a tax increase, but it may get them to shut the hell up (maybe).
-They may get the above but it may jeopardize other projects that are more needed. (Though the rest of council may well turn on the East end councillors in that case.)
-The delay in getting anything done on the ground may well lead to a future government shitcanning the funding.
No matter what happens Ford will try to ride it to the next election. If Ford can actually find some NEW money, he may actually deserve some credit for giving the people of Scarborough the subway they want (despite the lack of stops and poor value for money). The jury is still out on the odds of finding that new money, and Ford has a reputation for pulling stuff from his ass.
There's still a lot (and several levels) of stupid around this...
Haha Ford Nation, enjoy your tax increases.
I think in the grand scheme of things Flaherty and Ford will try to do stuff to put Wynn in an unfavorable spot so that the Conservatives can win the provincial election.
I think in the grand scheme of things Flaherty and Ford will try to do stuff to put Wynn in an unfavorable spot so that the Conservatives can win the provincial election.
Unfortunately the development charges go straight into funds not vontrolled by the city but by individual councillors for "community improvements". Adam Vaughn alone is sitting on over 50 million of unspent money. They need to get this changed so a majority of the money goes into the general coffers or better specifically to the transit infrastructure file. Until then its more of a vote buying slush fund than anything else.
I will happily pay a property tax increase (and even the Mayor has now come around to this) if it goes directly to transit infrastructure. I'm against increases that led to wasteful spending. Any infrastructure like transit, sewers etc most of "ford nation" will support.
