Are you sure you want to be making that argument? Because somebody out there is going to convert that to an annualized salary...
Teachers Taking "Sick Days" - Anyone want to defend this one?
- Thread starter TeasePlease
- Start date
Those courses are university courses and paid for by the teachers. They do net get paid over the summer and pd days are still spent at school
Bullshit
I once went into a pub during the day and recognized a dozen teachers
I asked one of them what was up and they responded it was PD day
They had planed on going skiing, but the weather had not co-operated
The majority of govt expenditures are on salaries
Any politician who has the stones to try and tackle this problem will have to take on the unions
The unions are the real problem here as they have a vested interest in maintaining deficit spending
No, 2 at Christmas, one at March break. The 9 or so weeks of summer is unpaid (although I think there is some provision for deferring salary during the school year to get paid during the summer, for those that can't help themselves but live paycheck to paycheck). It is semantics though to talk about their lousy 3 weeks of vacation or the amount of unpaid time they have. Bottom line, it's still a very well paid career. Sort of reminds me of some airline pilots I know who say they only get paid from take-off to landing, and all the pre-flight work they do is for free. Sure, if that's the formula that their pay is determined, but they are still making $10,000-15,000/month for working 120-130 hours, of which is 85 paid flying hours.
I can't really hold the sick day thing against them. I work in a union environment, and we get personal days each year, to use as sick time, or other time off we plan in advance. If we don't use them, we get them paid out in January, as an "attendance award". I think many of us would love to be able to leave any unused days in the bank for future use, or even save them until retirement. I can't imagine the company wanting that liability on the books for that long though. Of course, I think those days the teachers got should have been paid out at the salary they were earned at over those many years, not at what the last year's salary is. But if we were told those days were use em or lose em, you can bet every one of us would make sure we would use every last one of them.
As for the extra-curricular stuff, I think a post way back in this thread summed it up nicely. If teachers wanted to work on a punch clock, go work in factory. Tons of professional people work more than a standard work day. Drive by an city park or arena at night or on weekends and you will see thousands of adult volunteers coaching soccer, hockey, football, baseball, scouts, guides, and a myriad of other activities, most of whom have also just finished a full time or more day at work. My son's full time factory working football coach spends probably 15-20 hours per week just on that team, and he coaches spring and fall teams. So I do have a little bit of cynicism when I hear teachers say that coaching the high school hockey team or the chess club adds too much to their day.
With all the data available on this thread, I think we can seriously look at two questions that have been tossed around here for awhile. The first one is how smart are teachers; the second is how much they should be paid. Let’s just look at the first one:
Based on the graph I posted earlier, we know that in the US, teachers have an IQ range around 115. I also know that education is one of the softest majors in American universities.
In Ontario, the study of education is a post-graduate undertaking in most cases. I remember when my children were young, I read in an alumni magazine from Western that admission rate in the school’s education faculty is lower than that of law. That was the reality at the time and I suspect things have not changed much.
So, if an A average in an honours degree is required for admission, you are talking about something around 120 minimum. This would put them in the top 10% of population at the very least, and likely to be higher if they major in subjects such as math or physics.
I really enjoy how you take a personal story, that is completely unverifiable, and that given your almost pathological hatred of teachers, could easily be made up, and have no trouble generalizing it to an entire population group. And yet, if I shared any number of stories about hardworking teachers, or teachers who go above and beyond, you would dismiss it as bullshit.
You're really a class act man
Prove it never happened then.
I guess you think I would make that kind of shit up?
I know there are teachers who go above and beyond and some have made a real difference in some kids lives.
Those are few and far between
As a group, they showed this past year that the kids best interest is not their first priority
It should be very clear they defiantly do not give a rats ass about the provinces financial health.
The liberals caved and gave these overpaid bloodsuckers more $, just in time for their 2 1/2 month paid vacation
I hope you are prepared for higher taxes, that will follow as sure as day follows night.
Well you are wrong once again
I may not be everyone's cup of tea, however I am brutally honest
the worse aspect of public education is as a student u are stuck with what u r given
In a bad class ?
got a bad teacher ??
fuck you
why parents put up with this very real potential abuse of their children ( almost certain abuse in some cases IE fat and ugly or gay children) while worrying about the extremely remote possibility of their child being kidnapped by a pedophile is irrational and shows how easily people are controlled by the state
as far as teachers pay goes ........ I mean really ! .... shake your head !
bay street thieves that care nothing about the economics of the country they control as long as they get rich ! ...... 10% owning the vast majority of social wealth and avoiding taxes ! .... and you r worried about a few percentage points to teachers !
ummm... those 'thieves' salaries don't come out of my taxes... give YOUR head a shake, and while you're at it, get it out of your ass...
look, I have no interest in a pissing contest
so I will not reply crudely
the bay street boys and the extremely filthy rich elite do take far, far, far, far more money from your pocket than a few points to the teachers salary
as they contribute far, far less to society than they take out
some get rich harming society !
look at the housing collapse!
WALL STREET BOYS KNOWING LET IT HAPPEN BECAUSE THEY WERE GETTING RICH AND NOT ONLY DID THEY GET AWAY WITH IT WALL STREET STILL FIGHTS ANY CONTROLS OVER THEIR ABILITY TO GET FILTHY RICH AND ARE WINNING THE FIGHT WITH PAC MONIES
if social monies were distributed with reason your salary would be tripled and that does not make me a commie
when the rich avoid taxes you have to pay more taxes as they get richer and richer simply because they are rich
teachers may be paid more than other worker ants are paid but all worker ants get less than their worth to society
Sure they do.
Did you forget about the bailout?
Did you forget about the free ride they are getting in offshore banks?
Teachers salaries pale beside the last financial screwup.
You do not have the first loose clue about economics if this is what you believe
You certainly do not understand taxation or the impacts of paying teachers an average salary of $83K (soon to be closer to $90K)
I will simplify this for you
The province spends more than it takes in in revenue and has loaded up on debt in order to do so
That debt will roll over at higher interest rates soon and will result in higher borrowing costs and eventually
1. Higher taxes an / or
2. Elimination of services
The same week the current nitwit Premier signed away hundreds of millions of dollars in wage increase to already overpaid teachers, she was talking about tax increases in order to fund much need transit infrastructure.
She should have reduced teachers salaries by 10-15% in order to help fund the infrastructure
but no, she tried to buy votes with my tax dollars
Shame on her and shame on all teachers for using kids as negotiating pawns and placing their financial interests ahead of the best interest of students
You are grossly mis-informed
Canadian Banks did not get a bailout
The govt bought assess to ensure liquidity
Last I heard the Canadian got will make a profit on those assets.
Education is approx. 1/3 of the Ont govts non-interest expenditures.
Teachers salaries are the majority of that spending
To say overpaying teachers is not relevant defies logic
Me too,...I want to be overpaid because ???
kind of selective,...aren't you.
FAST
So let me get this straight, your justifying the teachers being grossly over paid because of what happen in the US financial markets ???
kind of selective,...aren't you.
FAST
Without being selective, how much should teachers be paid?
I think I have already established that an average Ontario teacher has an IQ score in the top 10% of the Canadian population. If that is true, I would expect their incoming to be in the top 10% of population as well. From the CBC, I found the following:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/interactives/canada-income/
So, based on 2009 income, the average Ontario teacher’s income falls around the 90%tile range. Just as their IQ scores would have predicted. Police officers, with IQ in the average range, also earn in the 90%tile range. That strikes me as being excessive.
Another poster posted the calculations of economist Linda Nazareth. In the Globe and Mail article, she compared Ontario teachers’ salary to that of the OECD average and came up with a 1.05 ratio. In other words, teachers in Ontario earn 5% more than the average in the OECD nations.
Could it be that Canada is simply an expensive place to “do business”? I can not come up with the OECD average for police officers, but I can come up with one for doctors. Although the article talked about 2006 income, the ratio should still hold:
http://www.practicelink.com/magazine/vital-stats/physician-compensation-worldwide/
So for a general practitioner in Canada, his income, adjusted for PPP, is 1.3375 that of his OECD counterparts. Since many of the OECD nations have come through a recession greater than that of Canada, I can only assume that the ratio has increased.
While the stock market is highly efficient, the job market does not appear so.
