Teachers to Boycott After School Programs

[JohnLarue]

I said a business teacher could have been on the track and steered themselves that way instead of teacher's college and thus become that.

I in no way said all businees teachers or all teachers could be a CA...... so much of your anger is related to you putting words into people's mouths, Go give your english teacher a curb stomp.

Frank

You are missing the point
Teachers could not replace the compensation they current receive.
Certainly not on mass and as I said 1 /1000 could find a 90K job

On the other hand the province could replace the current group of teachers as there is (as you say) lots of competition
As for the current group being the best and brightest, I just do not buy that if they are willing to ignore the provinces financial situation, place their comp above the interests of the kids and above the interest of the average taxpayer

 

[FatOne]

Wrong.... most are elgible to retire at mid 50s..... I think the average Canadian lives to 75 or so. So it's more like 20 to 25 years of pension.... keep in mind some teach for longer as if you hold off on retiring you get a bigger pension.

.

So basically what you are saying is that the province of Ontario, the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan and just about every teachers union in Ontario is wrong and you know better. I suppose you think NASA faked the moon landings and 9/11 was an inside job also. Check the web site.
http://fundingyourpension.com/

I've seen the same numbers mentioned on the radio also.

According to this page
http://fundingyourpension.com/did_you_know.php
they seem to expect currently retireing teachers to live to 89. Considering it is a female dominated field [and women are so oppressed by the male centric medical system they live longer], and they are educated and well off both of which add to life span, as well those who die before 55 or 60 never even start to collect it makes sense.

Which makes the idea of teachers knocking off a couple of years after retirement as claimed before laughable.

I seem to recall that a male who is 65 can expect to live past 80 and this is a whole population stat, not self selected as teachers are.

 

[FatOne]

If it sounds so good get a Bachelor's of Ed and get yourself a contract. Finding a full time position is very very tough without an in at a school or becoming known by doing supply or part time positions first..... even then it's tough. Think about it how many graduate from teacher's college per year and how many teacher's retire and how many new schools are built and how many kids are born/immigrate here.

For a while now unless things have changed recently, there are something like twice as many grads as jobs. This isn't a new situation.

If that is not a screaming proof that teachers are over paid, I don't know what is. You know supply and demand and all that.

Worst thing is we can't actually use that crush of wannibe teachers to improve the stock because once they are in a teacher is almost impossible to get rid of.

 

[frankcastle]

So basically what you are saying is that the province of Ontario, the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan and just about every teachers union in Ontario is wrong and you know better. I suppose you think NASA faked the moon landings and 9/11 was an inside job also. Check the web site.
http://fundingyourpension.com/

I've seen the same numbers mentioned on the radio also.

According to this page
http://fundingyourpension.com/did_you_know.php
they seem to expect currently retireing teachers to live to 89. Considering it is a female dominated field [and women are so oppressed by the male centric medical system they live longer], and they are educated and well off both of which add to life span, as well those who die before 55 or 60 never even start to collect it makes sense.

Which makes the idea of teachers knocking off a couple of years after retirement as claimed before laughable.

I seem to recall that a male who is 65 can expect to live past 80 and this is a whole population stat, not self selected as teachers are.

Look you said age 50. to retire you need to reach 85 where that is the sum of your age and years teaching (same as cops). To get a teaching degree you are probably 23. 85-23=62 which means you have to teach for 31 years meaning you retire at 54 NOT 50 as you claimed.

As for life expectancy I thought it was 75 for men but I googled and found 78 and 82 for women.

So that means collecting pensions for 24 to 28 years on average NOT 30

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2008/01/14/death-stats.html

 

[frankcastle]

Frank

You are missing the point
Teachers could not replace the compensation they current receive.
Certainly not on mass and as I said 1 /1000 could find a 90K job

On the other hand the province could replace the current group of teachers as there is (as you say) lots of competition
As for the current group being the best and brightest, I just do not buy that if they are willing to ignore the provinces financial situation, place their comp above the interests of the kids and above the interest of the average taxpayer

That's a huge assumption that people want the job for purely the joy of teaching and none of the benefits.

 

[JohnLarue]

Fuck you are painfully stupid. I'm not talking about 10 years of teaching experience is credit.

I am saying that we have to talke about a person
1) doing 5 years university
2) applying for a job
3) keeping it for 10 years
4) netting 90K AFTER 10 years

Take it easy
I do not have to talk about any person with specific constraints
Sorry, we are not in a classroom where you decide the rules of engagement

I am telling you that you can not replace your compensation in the private sector, so perhaps you should stop taking it and the taxpayer for granted.
And stop with these ridiculous comparisons to justify the excess.
They are not relevant nor are they realistic

If anyone is painfully stupid it is you

You should apply to the private sector. That appears to be the only way reality will finally settle in for you

I have been harse, but reasonably civil up to this point.
Are you sure you want to push this to a nasty level?
So I will ask you politely to watch the fucking profanity

 

[frankcastle]

Frank

You are missing the point
Teachers could not replace the compensation they current receive.
Certainly not on mass and as I said 1 /1000 could find a 90K job

On the other hand the province could replace the current group of teachers as there is (as you say) lots of competition
As for the current group being the best and brightest, I just do not buy that if they are willing to ignore the provinces financial situation, place their comp above the interests of the kids and above the interest of the average taxpayer

You missed my point. You claim less than 1/1000 and I am saying it is better than that..... how much better I can't say. THAT IS ALL. I'm not suggest even half could do that as one has to assume that there is a limited supply of high paying jobs.

 

[JohnLarue]

That's a huge assumption that people want the job for purely the joy of teaching and none of the benefits.

OK
Lets take away the excess benefits, solve the debt problem and we shall find out

To be honest with you, those are the people we want teaching the kids
The ones that are in for the comp first and for most, mmmm.......not so much

Perhaps you should call it a night, you are starting to make my case for me

 

[frankcastle]

Take it easy
I do not have to talk about any person with specific constraints
Sorry, we are not in a classroom where you decide the rules of engagement

I am telling you that you can not replace your compensation in the private sector, so perhaps you should stop taking it and the taxpayer for granted.
And stop with these ridiculous comparisons to justify the excess.
They are not relevant nor are they realistic

If anyone is painfully stupid it is you

You should apply to the private sector. That appears to be the only way reality will finally settle in for you

I have been harse, but reasonably civil up to this point.
Are you sure you want to push this to a nasty level?
So I will ask you politely to watch the fucking profanity

Oh I see this is your classroom.

Please.

You are making incorrect comparisons to earn 90K the teacher has to start at the starting salary and work for 10 years.

So I am saying that if a teacher went back in time and changed their career path after 10 years SOME of them could be eaerning 90K.

At no point did I say anything about justifying their current salary.

You consistant put words in my mouth. That is frustrating. How about ask me "is this what you thingk?" because if you follow my posts at no point do I make suggestions that a raise is in order.

 

[frankcastle]

OK
Lets take away the excess benefits, solve the debt problem and we shall find out

To be honest with you, those are the people we want teaching the kids
The ones that are in for the comp first and for most, mmmm.......not so much

Perhaps you should call it a night, you are starting to make my case for me

How so? Do you think all cops are noble crimefighters, all doctors are selfless healers, all lawyers are crusaders for justice, all mechanics love cars, all caretakers love to clean? Why should teacking be any different?

I at no point said all teachers are in it for the kids?!!???? Ideally some probably love their jobs, quite a few do society the favour and quite within the first three years but like any job you have good and bad employees...... just like the rest of the real world.

 

[frankcastle]

Take it easy
I do not have to talk about any person with specific constraints
Sorry, we are not in a classroom where you decide the rules of engagement

I am telling you that you can not replace your compensation in the private sector, so perhaps you should stop taking it and the taxpayer for granted.
And stop with these ridiculous comparisons to justify the excess.
They are not relevant nor are they realistic

If anyone is painfully stupid it is you

You should apply to the private sector. That appears to be the only way reality will finally settle in for you

I have been harse, but reasonably civil up to this point.
Are you sure you want to push this to a nasty level?
So I will ask you politely to watch the fucking profanity

Shall we go back and count the number of your insults and rude remarks? You should be happy that it took 100 posts to see a swear word.

As far as I can see you talk a good game but have thin skin, provide little to no stats or support for your claims, take personal pot shots at teachers above and beyond the discussion.

 

[JohnLarue]

So I am saying that if a teacher went back in time and changed their career path after 10 years SOME of them could be eaerning 90K.
.

Unfortunately this is about reality
If we could go back in time we would not have allowed teachers salaries to get anywhere near 90K
But we can not go back in time and we have a huge problem, which teachers are willing to ignore out of self interest

And you talk about frustration
Arguments like the one you just made make me question if we have the right people in front of our youth

 

[frankcastle]

OK
Lets take away the excess benefits, solve the debt problem and we shall find out

To be honest with you, those are the people we want teaching the kids
The ones that are in for the comp first and for most, mmmm.......not so much

Perhaps you should call it a night, you are starting to make my case for me

Given the economic situation how can you know for sure that the people who take over wouldn't be doing it just for the money? You can't say that will filter out the people who don't love the job to do that it would have to go down to minimum wage and even then we know people who take min wage jobs just for the paycheque.

 

[frankcastle]

Unfortunately this is about reality
If we could go back in time we would not have allowed teachers salaries to get anywhere near 90K
But we can not go back in time and we have a huge problem, which teachers are willing to ignore out of self interest

And you talk about frustration
Arguments like the one you just made make me question if we have the right people in front of our youth

You are combining two ideas......

I was just discussing one of your ideas which is that teachers could not make 90K elsewhere and my answer to you is yes they could..... some right away others after some time.

keep in mind I said SOME not ALL

 

[JohnLarue]

Shall we go back and count the number of your insults and rude remarks? You should be happy that it took 100 posts to see a swear word.

As far as I can see you talk a good game but have thin skin, provide little to no stats or support for your claims, take personal pot shots at teachers above and beyond the discussion.

Grow up
Go to sleep

 

[frankcastle]

Grow up
Go to sleep

Hey they were all true statements.

 

[frankcastle]

Good night john boy (not sure if you're old enough to get a Walton's reference)

 

[JohnLarue]

You are combining two ideas......

I was just discussing one of your ideas which is that teachers could not make 90K elsewhere and my answer to you is yes they could..... some right away others after some time.

keep in mind I said SOME not ALL

But you are bargining for all, not just some
You can have it both ways

I still say 1 /1000
Please apply, if you are successful, i will conceed that you are the second
Till then, 1/1000

 

[frankcastle]

But you are bargining for all, not just some
You can have it both ways

I still say 1 /1000
Please apply, if you are successful, i will conceed that you are the second
Till then, 1/1000

Ugh we'll just have to blame your english teachers for the communication breakdown

 

[FatOne]

FatOne writes:

For how many years can a typical teacher retiring today expect to
collect a pension?
Answer: c. A typical teacher retiring today can expect to
collect a pension for 30 years, plus a benefit may be paid to a
survivor after the retired teacher dies. This means a typical
teacher will collect a pension for about four years longer than
the average teaching career.


These figures are based on teachers who retire at age 50. Teachers who retire at that age do indeed live long. But the fact remains that those teachers who started their careers late and are retiring in their late 50s or in their 60s do not live long after retirement.

If you go further into the web site, it says the typical age of retirement is 59

Also I think it would be implausable that teachers who quit at 50 with enough teaching experience can last another 30 years but those who teach 15 more years drop off that fast. I have documented facts backing me up from the province and the people who run the pension. Your numbers as far as I can tell are invented as you have not said anything about where you got them from.