Will the SCOUS Strike Down Any Part of Obamacare?

[rld]

4 justices wanted to strike it down...even a black judge that should mean something to you liberals lol. you ppl are acting like an overwhelming majority of scholars etc agree with the law. if you really believe the founding fathers who wrote the constitution would agree with obamacare you are crazy, they were the original tea party. they wrote the constitution and the supreme court has failed to uphold it time and time again.

Calling Clarence Thomas a judge is a pretty loose application of the word. Your association of his colour with his being liberal just shows how stupid you are.

While I have not taken the time to review all the scholarship on the issue (and I know you havn't) the majority of lower court and appellate decisions upheld the individual mandate.

Your personal opinion of how the court has (not) upheld the constitution just shows a complete lack of understanding of both the process and the US constitution.

 

[rld]

where did the 5 justices that rubber stamped obamacare get their law degree? if you can't see the farce in what john roberts did than you got problems. it should have been a 5-4 in favour of striking it down. the liberal justices who supported this bill dont give a damn about the constitution they obviously let their own personal belief's guide their decision. how can you call the penalty a tax when the govt itself is adament its a penalty. take a look at this in another light, the u.s. govt has just passed a law ordering its citizens to buy something or face what obama calls a penalty, do you not see the danger in this? obama just passed one of the largest middle class tax increases in american history, 20 new hidden fees & taxes on those earning less than 250k a year. the individual mandate itself is a penalty not a tax. only those with a liberal agenda who actually don;t care about the constitution bc basically everything they stand for is unconstitutional support it. medicare, medicaid, social security...all unconstitutional so what the heck do they care....and yes even the patriot act, republican administrations are just as guilty bush started an unconstitutional war but we aint talking about that we are talking about obamacare im not biased mafucka

You sir, are a moron. You just suggested that Justice Roberts is a liberal, and that medicaid, social security and medicare are all unconstitutional.

From those type of comments I bet you havn't even read the US constitution let alone come close to understanding it.

 

[blackrock13]

You really are getting to be bloody annoying. Your point is that the Supreme Court members are a bunch of clueless fools, but that somehow you can go to the heart of the Constitution and interpret it better? You're making a fool of yourself, but I suppose you're comfortable in that role by now.

Hahaha, thanks for that early morning laugh.

I've begun to think this cabin dwelling hillbilly, and maybe I should apology to the hillbillies, has had enough attention. He's certainly shown himself to be a first class (you fill in your favorite word) and should be ignored.

I may have found a picture of his bedroom, but it hasn't been confirmed.

MSOG's bedroom4.jpg

Note the bar in the side room.

 

[irlandais9000]

besides that, if you read the constitution that kind of taaxation is unconstitutional.

Actually, it isn't unconstitutional.

I have read the constitution, and studied it extensively. Maybe you could tell us what you are referring to.

 

[blackrock13]

Actually, it isn't unconstitutional.

I have read the constitution, and studied it extensively. Maybe you could tell us what you are referring to.

Ha!!!

 

[msog87]

You sir, are a moron. You just suggested that Justice Roberts is a liberal, and that medicaid, social security and medicare are all unconstitutional.

From those type of comments I bet you havn't even read the US constitution let alone come close to understanding it.

I didnt say john roberts is a liberal. and yes all those govt programs I mentioned are unconstitutional. you realize america was a country for over 150 years until all these govt programs came about. that wasnt the vision of the founding fathers, they knew govt was the enemy. if a tax on tea got the revolution fired up what do you think theyd have to say about those programs? the supreme court isnt doing their job period its all politics now

 

[blackrock13]

I didnt say john roberts is a liberal. and yes all those govt programs I mentioned are unconstitutional. you realize america was a country for over 150 years until all these govt programs came about. that wasnt the vision of the founding fathers, they knew govt was the enemy. if a tax on tea got the revolution fired up what do you think theyd have to say about those programs? the supreme court isnt doing their job period its all politics now

So you want to go back the 18th century ideals and enjoy all it perks. I knew you were a little behind the rest of the class, but I didn't realize how much. you still seem m to ignore that the constitution that was signed by the framers has been changed from time to time as it doesn't fit your point of view. If the framers got it right and the Constitution is so sacred, why all the changes.

 

[msog87]

So you want to go back the 18th century ideals and enjoy all it perks. I knew you were a little behind the rest of the class, but I didn't realize how much. you still seem m to ignore that the constitution that was signed by the framers has been changed from time to time as it doesn't fit your point of view. If the framers got it right and the Constitution is so sacred, why all the changes.

I like when liberals say something like " so you want to live like hundreds of years ago", take a look at places with small govt like hong kong or singapore and tell me how backwards they are

 

[msog87]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrnGnwuqOA8

 

[blackrock13]

I like when liberals say something like " so you want to live like hundreds of years ago", take a look at places with small govt like hong kong or singapore and tell me how backwards they are

Singapore and Hong Kong? If you think the US could ever get to the same level of low government you need your head examined. Singapore in a single city state and Hong Kong is a city, both with populations under 10 million. I wonder how the 52 states in the Union would feel about cutting their power base, to mention the major cities in the union? You really are scratching the bottom of the barrel in this death spin of yours. It's kind of fun to watch, sort of.

 

[blackrock13]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrnGnwuqOA8

Saw it on the weekend and he was living in Lala land. They weren't just any liberals. Even Fareed couldn't keep a straight face at what he was saying.

 

[msog87]

Saw it on the weekend and he was living in Lala land. They weren't just any liberals. Even Fareed couldn't keep a straight face at what he was saying.

fareed is a liberal as well, he doesnt know any better. you heard what he said at the beginning " we arnt scholars on the constitution", basically excusing his ignorance peter schiff knows the constitution like the back of his hand many do. schiff is very smart and passionate, he predicted the whole financial crisis for years and people used to laugh at him, the man is a genius. he runs a business, none of these people he debated do, its always like that they are completely ignorant to the real world. the only people that live in la la land are the people he debates he lives in the real world and there are many like him in his shoes that know exactly what hes saying

 

[blackrock13]

fareed is a liberal as well, he doesnt know any better. you heard what he said at the beginning " we arnt scholars on the constitution", basically excusing his ignorance peter schiff knows the constitution like the back of his hand many do. schiff is very smart and passionate, he predicted the whole financial crisis for years and people used to laugh at him, the man is a genius. he runs a business, none of these people he debated do, its always like that they are completely ignorant to the real world. the only people that live in la la land are the people he debates he lives in the real world and there are many like him in his shoes that know exactly what hes saying

Peter Schiff is one of the people that thinks Cain's 9-9-9 actually would work and you say he's smart?


Peter schiff isn't much better than most predictors; from http://wallstreeteconomists.org/peter-schiff-predictions/index.htm

Wall Street / Economic Predictions	Source & Date	Accuracy	Comments
US economy is not strong and housing market will crash and we will have high unemployment	December 16, 2006 Fox News DebateAgain on August 8, 2007 Fox News	True	Uncannily AccurateIt is worth noting that Peter Schiff was ridiculed by experts and he showed great courage. We do not believe it was a lucky guess. He did see signs that others missed. The video shows how right he was and how wrong the other so called "experts" are. To his credit most economists and experts ignored the signs until the markets crashed in summer of 2008. Two experts who warned about the economic crisis before Peter Schiff are Dean Baker'swarning in July 21, 2005 Med Jones' (US Economic Risks June, 2, 2006). More detailed predictions can be found at: Dean Baker Predictions Med Jones Predictions
Interest rates will go higher and inflation will go higher	December 16, 2006 Fox News Debate	False	Although he is right on his data of saving and mortgage he was off in his timing. Interested rate went lower in 2007, 2008, 2009 and there was deflation. Eventually we had inflation in late 2011. So he seem to be right on the trend wrong on the timing with 2-4 years.
Inflation in 2008 and 2009		False	Deflation in 2008 & 2009
At a minimum, the dollar will lose another 40 to 50 percent of its value in 2010	January 26, 2009 Source US News	False	12 Ways Schiff Was Wrong in 2008 Wrong about hyperinflation Wrong about the dollar Wrong about commodities except for gold Wrong about foreign currencies except for the Yen Wrong about foreign equities Wrong in timing Wrong in risk management Wrong in buy and hold thesis Wrong on decoupling Wrong on China Wrong on US treasuries Wrong on interest rates, both foreign and domesticSource US News
US dollars will go all the way to zero and gold will go at least $5,000 an ounce.	Sep 9, 2009 Daily Finance	False
US Equity Markets Will Crash		True
US Dollar Will Go To Zero (Hyperinflation) like Zimbabwe		False	Dollar value declined, but no were close to to the expectation and Hyperinflation did not occur. If you invested based on this theory you would have lost a lot of moneySource: Mike Shedlock. Response to Mish's Criticism by Peter Schiff
Buy foreign equities and commodities and hold them with no exit strategy.		False	Foreign equities sold off much harder than US equities, and US dollar did not decline as much. Peter Schiff Investment did that and they are down 40%
We Probably Won't Make It To 2012	Aug 26, 2010 Video To be determined	To be determined
US markets will crash like dominos so many things are bound to happen in 2011 The dollar will collapse and we will see a greater economic disaster	Dec 31, 2010 CNBC	To be determined
When the dollar stops rallying it is going to fall like a stone	Jan 12, 2010 CNBC	False	If investors shorted the dollar they would have lost
Buy commodities	Jan 12, 2010 CNBC	True	Commodities were up. If investors bought commodities they would have won
Buy Gold	Jan 12, 2010 CNBC	True
US Economy will only get worse	Jan 12, 2010 CNBC	False	In the video, he argues semantics. The fact is the US economy recovered in 2010 and added Jobs in 2011.
Foreign stock, gold and commodities to outperform US stocks	Jan 12, 2010 CNBC	True
US stock are heading a lot lower in 2009, 2010 and 2011 as well	Jan 02, 2009 Bloomberg	False	Stocks recovered during 2009 and 2010.
Schiff predicts Nasdaq 500 and Dow 4000	2002 Video	False	The S&P (.INX) went from 1054 in May of 2002 (the date of the interview) to 1561 in Oct. 2007, a 48% gain and the Dow (.DJI) rose 40%. - Source: Todd Sullivan Seeking Alpha. "had you listened to Peter in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 or even 3/4 of 2007, you lost your shirt. Had you placed bets based on Schiff's market calls, you lost everything you wagered."

So, he's right on 5 and wrong on 10. Jesus Christ! That's really good.

 

[msog87]

Peter Schiff is one of the people that thinks Cain's 9-9-9 actually would work and you say he's smart?


Peter schiff isn't much better than most predictors; from http://wallstreeteconomists.org/peter-schiff-predictions/index.htm

Wall Street / Economic Predictions	Source & Date	Accuracy	Comments
US economy is not strong and housing market will crash and we will have high unemployment	December 16, 2006 Fox News DebateAgain on August 8, 2007 Fox News	True	Uncannily AccurateIt is worth noting that Peter Schiff was ridiculed by experts and he showed great courage. We do not believe it was a lucky guess. He did see signs that others missed. The video shows how right he was and how wrong the other so called "experts" are. To his credit most economists and experts ignored the signs until the markets crashed in summer of 2008. Two experts who warned about the economic crisis before Peter Schiff are Dean Baker'swarning in July 21, 2005 Med Jones' (US Economic Risks June, 2, 2006). More detailed predictions can be found at: Dean Baker Predictions Med Jones Predictions
Interest rates will go higher and inflation will go higher	December 16, 2006 Fox News Debate	False	Although he is right on his data of saving and mortgage he was off in his timing. Interested rate went lower in 2007, 2008, 2009 and there was deflation. Eventually we had inflation in late 2011. So he seem to be right on the trend wrong on the timing with 2-4 years.
Inflation in 2008 and 2009		False	Deflation in 2008 & 2009
At a minimum, the dollar will lose another 40 to 50 percent of its value in 2010	January 26, 2009 Source US News	False	12 Ways Schiff Was Wrong in 2008 Wrong about hyperinflation Wrong about the dollar Wrong about commodities except for gold Wrong about foreign currencies except for the Yen Wrong about foreign equities Wrong in timing Wrong in risk management Wrong in buy and hold thesis Wrong on decoupling Wrong on China Wrong on US treasuries Wrong on interest rates, both foreign and domesticSource US News
US dollars will go all the way to zero and gold will go at least $5,000 an ounce.	Sep 9, 2009 Daily Finance	False
US Equity Markets Will Crash		True
US Dollar Will Go To Zero (Hyperinflation) like Zimbabwe		False	Dollar value declined, but no were close to to the expectation and Hyperinflation did not occur. If you invested based on this theory you would have lost a lot of moneySource: Mike Shedlock. Response to Mish's Criticism by Peter Schiff
Buy foreign equities and commodities and hold them with no exit strategy.		False	Foreign equities sold off much harder than US equities, and US dollar did not decline as much. Peter Schiff Investment did that and they are down 40%
We Probably Won't Make It To 2012	Aug 26, 2010 Video To be determined	To be determined
US markets will crash like dominos so many things are bound to happen in 2011 The dollar will collapse and we will see a greater economic disaster	Dec 31, 2010 CNBC	To be determined
When the dollar stops rallying it is going to fall like a stone	Jan 12, 2010 CNBC	False	If investors shorted the dollar they would have lost
Buy commodities	Jan 12, 2010 CNBC	True	Commodities were up. If investors bought commodities they would have won
Buy Gold	Jan 12, 2010 CNBC	True
US Economy will only get worse	Jan 12, 2010 CNBC	False	In the video, he argues semantics. The fact is the US economy recovered in 2010 and added Jobs in 2011.
Foreign stock, gold and commodities to outperform US stocks	Jan 12, 2010 CNBC	True
US stock are heading a lot lower in 2009, 2010 and 2011 as well	Jan 02, 2009 Bloomberg	False	Stocks recovered during 2009 and 2010.
Schiff predicts Nasdaq 500 and Dow 4000	2002 Video	False	The S&P (.INX) went from 1054 in May of 2002 (the date of the interview) to 1561 in Oct. 2007, a 48% gain and the Dow (.DJI) rose 40%. - Source: Todd Sullivan Seeking Alpha. "had you listened to Peter in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 or even 3/4 of 2007, you lost your shirt. Had you placed bets based on Schiff's market calls, you lost everything you wagered."

So, he's right on 5 and wrong on 10. Jesus Christ! That's really good.

all of that is spin, he has haters ill explain it all later gtg

 

[blackrock13]

all of that is spin, he has haters ill explain it all later gtg

So you're saying being wrong that often in such a short period of time is ok. Them's not haters, thems facts. Even Nostrodamus was better.

 

[rld]

I didnt say john roberts is a liberal. and yes all those govt programs I mentioned are unconstitutional. you realize america was a country for over 150 years until all these govt programs came about. that wasnt the vision of the founding fathers, they knew govt was the enemy. if a tax on tea got the revolution fired up what do you think theyd have to say about those programs? the supreme court isnt doing their job period its all politics now

Actually you did. You referred to the Liberal justices who supported the legislation. Roberts supported the legislation.

You do know the founding fathers did approve of taxation in many forms, and levied many taxes. They were against the Tea Tax because they did not have vote. You know...no taxation without representation? Does that ring a bell at all?

How about...The Living Tree Doctrine?

This is a fine ruling by SCOTUS. Well reasoned, well considered and well decided. It is a tax, and the federal government does have the right to tax.

Perhaps you have spent too much time on militia websites. And yes, I am fairly famaliar with early American history.

 

[rld]

I like when liberals say something like " so you want to live like hundreds of years ago", take a look at places with small govt like hong kong or singapore and tell me how backwards they are

How about we look at some other places with small government...Somalia comes to mind...

 

[irlandais9000]

I like when liberals say something like " so you want to live like hundreds of years ago", take a look at places with small govt like hong kong or singapore and tell me how backwards they are

You in previous posts have presented yourself as an advocate of limited government. Hong Kong and Singapore are definitely NOT good examples of that. Freedoms that we take for granted in the Western world are not a routine thing in those places.

 

[msog87]

ok, where do I start? I'll break down all that BS about schiff in the order of that chart

- interest rates havnt gone up....YET. the bond market is heavily manipulated in the u.s. the fed is buying the majority of bonds keeping rates down, ppl are also buying u.s. debt cuz they think its a "safe haven", the u.s. is the largest debtor nation in the world how can the EU be having a debt crisis? americas time is coming is simple math their debt is impossible to pay back. inflation has gone up if you calculate inflation the way it was done in the 1970's it would be around 10%, the govt lies look at the price of gold it wouldnt be at 1600 if there was no inflation.

- he was wrong about the dollar crashing in 2008, instead of dumping the dollar investors rushed into it, this was his only bad call, however the move was only temporary the dollar index went from 70 to 90 then dropped back down to 72, it has now gone back up to 80 bc of the problems in europe due to the dollar index being heavily weighted to the euro but against the yen, aussie, franc etc the dollar has made record lows, central banks around the world are stopping their currencies from appreciating vs the dollar by publically saying they are printing money to stop it. if you measure the dollar in real terms such as commodities its still falling its only doing ok vs other fiat currencies that are being debased. he never said the dollar would fall 40-50% in 2010, the dollar did fall in 2010 though. the dollar index was 120 in the year 2000 btw

- the u.s. dollar is going to lose alot more value and gold is going to $5000 an ounce how can they say hes wrong when he didnt give a deadline. the dollar is still falling except vs the euro temporarily and the gold bull market is still ongoing

- he's right about foreign stocks/currencies and commodities. all you need to do is look at a 10 year chart of the Commodity index/foreign stock markets/currencies vs the u.s. stock market and USD. u.s. stocks have gone nowhere in 10 years and the u.s. dollar index has fallen over 30% ( remember when it cost 1.40 canadian for one usd?)

- the u.s. economy has been getting worse so they have created about 2 million service jobs out of the 10 million that were lost big deal, they have printed trillions of dollars and doubled the national debt to create these unproductive jobs, the trade deficit is still growing and the unemployment rate including the underemployed is 15%, this is even with a record low number of americans in the workforce. as soon as interest rates go up the phony recovery is going to crash the real crash is still to come

- he never said the u.s. stock market would crash in 2009 / 10 / 11, he said it would crash if you measure it in GOLD which it has big time. the stock market is where it is bc the fed and central banks are printing tons of money to prop it up.

- in the year 2002 he did make those predictions, he said you should be in foreign stock markets not american ( foreign stock markets outperformed by alot up to present) the reason why the dow and nasdaq didnt crash to those levels is the money printing that has gone on, which is why gold is sky high and going alot higher. measure stock market in gold and its lost more than 2/3 of its value

.....so as you can see he has a great track record cnbc is full of shit. btw all his videos are on youtube all the proof is there

-

 

[msog87]

Actually you did. You referred to the Liberal justices who supported the legislation. Roberts supported the legislation.

You do know the founding fathers did approve of taxation in many forms, and levied many taxes. They were against the Tea Tax because they did not have vote. You know...no taxation without representation? Does that ring a bell at all?

How about...The Living Tree Doctrine?

This is a fine ruling by SCOTUS. Well reasoned, well considered and well decided. It is a tax, and the federal government does have the right to tax.

Perhaps you have spent too much time on militia websites. And yes, I am fairly famaliar with early American history.

dude how can you even compare the heavy taxation today to the very small amount of taxation back then? there were no social security taxes, state and federal income taxes, payroll taxes etc thats just crazy what your saying