Shooting at Eaton Centre

[Keebler Elf]

I agree with a lot of what fuji says but one thing I disagree on is that it's entirely up to the black community to fix the problem. I think it's up to ALL of us (i.e., society) to fix the problem because, quite frankly, I have no faith in the ability of the black community to fix the problem by themselves. Also, there are extrinsic factors that contribute to the problem so I don't think we can just blame it all on them and turn a blind eye. The solution needs to be a communal effort.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I'll remind you guys next time there's a mafia or biker shooting, that its all up to our Italian and White community to fix the problem. You guys go first though, okay??!!


Seriously though, I agree there's a huge black crime problem, but I dont see how you can hold it against law-abiding Black people, and somehow tell them to fix "their" problem from within.

The only ones responsible for their crime are the people who are committing that crime. Holding others responsible is as retarded as holding violent Hollywood movies responsible for serial killers

 

[blackrock13]

The Pound Cake speech was given by Bill Cosby in May 2004 during an NAACP awards ceremony in Washington, D.C., to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education Supreme Court decision.[1] In it, Cosby was highly critical of members of subsets of the black community in the United States. He criticized the use of African American Vernacular English, the prevalence of single-parent families, the emphasis on frivolous and conspicuous consumption at the expense of necessities, lack of responsibility, and other behaviors.

The speech is often referred to as the "Pound Cake" speech because of the following lines, referencing a particular dessert, pound cake, for comedic effect, while contrasting common criminals with political activists who risked incarceration during the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s:

But these people, the ones up here in the balcony fought so hard. Looking at the incarcerated, these are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake! And then we all run out and are outraged, 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand? I wanted a piece of pound cake just as bad as anybody else. And I looked at it and I had no money. And something called parenting said, 'If you get caught with it you’re going to embarrass your mother.' Not 'You're going to get your butt kicked.' No. 'You're going to embarrass your family.'

In the same speech he had praise for the efforts of the Black Muslims in dealing with crime in the cities, saying "When you want to clear your neighborhood out, first thing you do is go get the Black Muslims, bean pies and all. And your neighborhood is then clear." After that statement, he pointed out the police's inability to resolve the crime problem, saying, "The police can't do it." He then had critical remarks for Black Christians' seeming inability to create positive social change for the urban population he was referring to, saying, "I'm telling you Christians, what's wrong with you? Why can't you hit the streets? Why can't you clean it out yourselves?"



Fuck it, easier to blame the crackers.

Nice C&P from wiki; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_Cake_speech . DM has taught you well.

As for Cosby, he does make people think and is at a point in his life where he is beholden to no one and will say what he thinks.

 

[rld]

I think there is a strong connection between income level and education level and marital status of the parents of a child and the parents of the child's peers are strong indicators of whether or not the child will be at risk.

In other words if you are poor, living with one parent, in a low income neighbourhood and your friends are in similar situations you are in for a tough ride.... you might make it out.

The media doesn't help either because the voices saying "get a good education and a job" are drowned out by a cacophony of dangerous, misguided, self serving messages.

Please note that I haven't mentioned race because I've seen at risk kids of all colours in this type of situation struggle.

So if you've made it this far I ask.........

What is the solution? Can we get past the racial arguments and address the fact that there is a problem?

You are dead on and speaking with the wisdom of the ancients.

I think it was Marcus Auriellus who said that poverty was the mother of all crime.

As Canadians I find it deplorable when people like to blame "the black community" or some other community for a problem. When did they stop being part of our great community? It is mindsets that want to divide us in that fashion that are a significant part of the problem. When you create the "them" and "us" mindset, and "them" is not doing so well, it creates anger towards "us". A slippery slope downwards.

 

[rld]

The Pound Cake speech was given by Bill Cosby in May 2004 during an NAACP awards ceremony in Washington, D.C., to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education Supreme Court decision.[1] In it, Cosby was highly critical of members of subsets of the black community in the United States. He criticized the use of African American Vernacular English, the prevalence of single-parent families, the emphasis on frivolous and conspicuous consumption at the expense of necessities, lack of responsibility, and other behaviors.

The speech is often referred to as the "Pound Cake" speech because of the following lines, referencing a particular dessert, pound cake, for comedic effect, while contrasting common criminals with political activists who risked incarceration during the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s:

But these people, the ones up here in the balcony fought so hard. Looking at the incarcerated, these are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake! And then we all run out and are outraged, 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand? I wanted a piece of pound cake just as bad as anybody else. And I looked at it and I had no money. And something called parenting said, 'If you get caught with it you’re going to embarrass your mother.' Not 'You're going to get your butt kicked.' No. 'You're going to embarrass your family.'

In the same speech he had praise for the efforts of the Black Muslims in dealing with crime in the cities, saying "When you want to clear your neighborhood out, first thing you do is go get the Black Muslims, bean pies and all. And your neighborhood is then clear." After that statement, he pointed out the police's inability to resolve the crime problem, saying, "The police can't do it." He then had critical remarks for Black Christians' seeming inability to create positive social change for the urban population he was referring to, saying, "I'm telling you Christians, what's wrong with you? Why can't you hit the streets? Why can't you clean it out yourselves?"



Fuck it, easier to blame the crackers.

I like Cosby, he is kind of funny. Also like what he said about the recent Martin case in Florida. I like Bill Mahr too. But they are comedians.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

As Canadians I find it deplorable when people like to blame "the black community" or some other community for a problem. When did they stop being part of our great community? It is mindsets that want to divide us in that fashion that are a significant part of the problem

I also think that BET tv, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson do a very good job in keeping us divided

 

[rld]

I also think that BET tv, Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson do a very good job in keeping us divided

I would not for a moment suggest that the origin of the community divides lay all on one side of the border.

 

[Rockslinger]

As Canadians I find it deplorable when people like to blame "the black community" or some other community for a problem. When did they stop being part of our great community? It is mindsets that want to divide us in that fashion that are a significant part of the problem. When you create the "them" and "us" mindset, and "them" is not doing so well, it creates anger towards "us". A slippery slope downwards.

This applies to the global community as well. That is why we should continue spending our treasure and blood in Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, Syria, Zimbabwe, etc. until everybody on this planet enjoy the same standard of living and human rights as we Canadians. For example, the reason we have suicide bombers is because of poverty, right?

 

[FatOne]

I like Cosby, he is kind of funny. Also like what he said about the recent Martin case in Florida. I like Bill Mahr too. But they are comedians.

Sometimes a performing circus monkey gets it right. Like Bill Maher for example. Also Cosby did actually earn a real Doctorate of Edcuation complete with dissertation and everything. [Yes my inner Sheldon Cooper is saying a Doctorate of Education isn't a real doctorate, but still].
Although we do pay too much attention to celebraties and their pronouncements, it is unfair to dismiss them automatically just because of their profession. It would be the reverse of an appeal to authority.

 

[fuji]

As Canadians I find it deplorable when people like to blame "the black community" or some other community for a problem. When did they stop being part of our great community?

I'm certainly all in favour of any solution, whether it comes from the black community, or whether it comes from the larger Canadian community. What is counter-productive, though, is to refuse to acknowledge that blacks in Canada are responsible for a disproportionate share of street crime. It is not the case that it is just poor people committing these crimes. Other poor people commit far less violent street crimes than black poor people do. Failing to acknowledge that will limit our ability to deal with it, if we can't acknowledge the problem, how the heck can we fix it.

So far I have not heard anyone propose any solutions. We already know that more welfare, more educational opportunities, etc., don't fix the problem. I think we should look seriously at racial profiling. Perhaps if we make it uncomfortable enough to be a goon, fewer people will choose to be goons. Or perhaps "racial profiling" is not really what I mean--I certainly don't want the police harassing a well dressed young black man carrying his school books. I want them harassing the goon in the baggy pants who is menacing people in the shopping mall.

 

[Rockslinger]

The solution needs to be a communal effort.

You do realize that every time outsiders want to do something to help the community circle their wagons and tell us to fark off. The irony is that Blacks are the main victims of Black criminals.

 

[FatOne]

Nice C&P from wiki; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_Cake_speech.DM has taught you well.

As for Cosby, he does make people think and is at a point in his life where he is beholden to no one and will say what he thinks.

No I didn't. I actually read what I posted.
Never mind that quoting has a long history that predates even gasp! the internet.
However actually taking the time to find the source of the quote just to fail to win some bullshit points is pretty lame. You really don't have a life do you.
Once, Twice, Three times a fail.

 

[rld]

This applies to the global community as well. That is why we should continue spending our treasure and blood in Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, Syria, Zimbabwe, etc. until everybody on this planet enjoy the same standard of living and human rights as we Canadians. For example, the reason we have suicide bombers is because of poverty, right?

I think suicide bombers are a complex problem. But many of them may well act because they have little to lose.

Having said that, I think that were we can, at a reasonable cost, assist other nations in raising their standard of living, and reducing poverty and disease, we should.

It has nothing to do with everybody having the same standard of living. It has to do with raising the basement without lowering the penthouse.

There is also a significant difference between poverty elimination programs, and military intervention. Although I suspect a few years ago we could have done wonders for Zimb at a very low cost.

 

[rld]

You do realize that every time outsiders want to do something to help the community circle their wagons and tell us to fark off.

Really, they told you to fark off? Perhaps you should have been nicer in your approach.

 

[rld]

Sometimes a performing circus monkey gets it right. Like Bill Maher for example. Also Cosby did actually earn a real Doctorate of Edcuation complete with dissertation and everything. [Yes my inner Sheldon Cooper is saying a Doctorate of Education isn't a real doctorate, but still].
Although we do pay too much attention to celebraties and their pronouncements, it is unfair to dismiss them automatically just because of their profession. It would be the reverse of an appeal to authority.

No matter who says it, I don't think cops should be shooting people for stealing a peice of pound cake.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I think we should look seriously at racial profiling

That would make the situation 100 times worse, because then you're profiling innocent black kids who have done nothing wrong

 

[fuji]

That would make the situation 100 times worse, because then you're profiling innocent black kids who have done nothing wrong

If they are dressed up like goons then in my opinion they have done something wrong. Perhaps not illegal. But we should as a society send the message that they're unwelcome. Don't want to be hassled? Don't dress like a goon.

What wrong have they done? They have contributed to the gangster culture, to the glorification of street violence. Good enough reason to harass them, I think.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

If they are dressed up like goons then in my opinion they have done something wrong. Perhaps not illegal. But we should as a society send the message that they're unwelcome. Don't want to be hassled? Don't dress like a goon

HHhmm.......sounds awfully similar to "Dont dress up like a slut, and you wont get raped"

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Also fuji, what if criminals were smart, and started dressing up in tuxedo's instead of baggy pants. And then started shooting people?!

Would you then forward a motion that all crooks stop wearing tuxedo's??!!

 

[great bear]

Also fuji, what if criminals were smart, and started dressing up in tuxedo's instead of baggy pants. And then started shooting people?!

Would you then forward a motion that all crooks stop wearing tuxedo's??!!

Bankers wear Tuxedos and some of them have proven to be slightly crooked.