Shooting at Eaton Centre
- Thread starter gcostanza
- Start date
Somehow I don't think that's ever going to be a problem.Also fuji, what if criminals were smart, and started dressing up in tuxedo's instead of baggy pants. And then started shooting people?!
Would you then forward a motion that all crooks stop wearing tuxedo's??!!
Nope, quite different. "Don't dress like a slut and you won't get raped" victimizes the victim. "Don't dress like a goon and you won't get harassed" victimizes the perpetrator--and I'm quite comfortable with that!HHhmm.......sounds awfully similar to "Dont dress up like a slut, and you wont get raped"
That's what charities are for, not tax dollars.Having said that, I think that were we can, at a reasonable cost, assist other nations in raising their standard of living, and reducing poverty and disease, we should.
Right or wrong, fuji proposed several solutions. What are yours?You are dead on and speaking with the wisdom of the ancients.
I think it was Marcus Auriellus who said that poverty was the mother of all crime.
As Canadians I find it deplorable when people like to blame "the black community" or some other community for a problem. When did they stop being part of our great community? It is mindsets that want to divide us in that fashion that are a significant part of the problem. When you create the "them" and "us" mindset, and "them" is not doing so well, it creates anger towards "us". A slippery slope downwards.
I fully expect to read more empty togetherness rhetoric.
LOL.....probably not :happy:Somehow I don't think that's ever going to be a problem
So you didn't C&P? Then how is it that the Wiki reference is almost word for word what you posted. Time? It took me all of 15 seconds.No I didn't. I actually read what I posted.
Never mind that quoting has a long history that predates even gasp! the internet.
However actually taking the time to find the source of the quote just to fail to win some bullshit points is pretty lame. You really don't have a life do you.
Once, Twice, Three times a fail.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_Cake_speech
The Pound Cake speech was given by Bill Cosby in May 2004 during an NAACP awards ceremony in Washington, D.C., to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education Supreme Court decision.[SUP][1][/SUP] In it, Cosby was highly critical of members of subsets of the black community in the United States. He criticized the use of African American Vernacular English, the prevalence of single-parent families, the emphasis on frivolous and conspicuous consumption at the expense of necessities, lack of responsibility, and other behaviors.
The speech is often referred to as the "Pound Cake" speech because of the following lines, referencing a particular dessert, pound cake, for comedic effect, while contrasting common criminals with political activists who risked incarceration during the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s:
But these people, the ones up here in the balcony fought so hard. Looking at the incarcerated, these are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake! And then we all run out and are outraged, 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand? I wanted a piece of pound cake just as bad as anybody else. And I looked at it and I had no money. And something called parenting said, 'If you get caught with it you’re going to embarrass your mother.' Not 'You're going to get your butt kicked.' No. 'You're going to embarrass your family.'
In the same speech he had praise for the efforts of the Black Muslims in dealing with crime in the cities, saying "When you want to clear your neighborhood out, first thing you do is go get the Black Muslims, bean pies and all. And your neighborhood is then clear." After that statement, he pointed out the police's inability to resolve the crime problem, saying, "The police can't do it." He then had critical remarks for Black Christians' seeming inability to create positive social change for the urban population he was referring to, saying, "I'm telling you Christians, what's wrong with you? Why can't you hit the streets? Why can't you clean it out yourselves?"
Your post, even containing the same footnote reference [1] to the Supreme Court decision.;
I'll let others decide for themselves if you're being honest.The Pound Cake speech was given by Bill Cosby in May 2004 during an NAACP awards ceremony in Washington, D.C., to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education Supreme Court decision.[1] In it, Cosby was highly critical of members of subsets of the black community in the United States. He criticized the use of African American Vernacular English, the prevalence of single-parent families, the emphasis on frivolous and conspicuous consumption at the expense of necessities, lack of responsibility, and other behaviors.
The speech is often referred to as the "Pound Cake" speech because of the following lines, referencing a particular dessert, pound cake, for comedic effect, while contrasting common criminals with political activists who risked incarceration during the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s:
But these people, the ones up here in the balcony fought so hard. Looking at the incarcerated, these are not political criminals. These are people going around stealing Coca-Cola. People getting shot in the back of the head over a piece of pound cake! And then we all run out and are outraged, 'The cops shouldn't have shot him.' What the hell was he doing with the pound cake in his hand? I wanted a piece of pound cake just as bad as anybody else. And I looked at it and I had no money. And something called parenting said, 'If you get caught with it you’re going to embarrass your mother.' Not 'You're going to get your butt kicked.' No. 'You're going to embarrass your family.'
In the same speech he had praise for the efforts of the Black Muslims in dealing with crime in the cities, saying "When you want to clear your neighborhood out, first thing you do is go get the Black Muslims, bean pies and all. And your neighborhood is then clear." After that statement, he pointed out the police's inability to resolve the crime problem, saying, "The police can't do it." He then had critical remarks for Black Christians' seeming inability to create positive social change for the urban population he was referring to, saying, "I'm telling you Christians, what's wrong with you? Why can't you hit the streets? Why can't you clean it out yourselves?"
His only error was not putting quotation marks around the text. Get over it, and let the adults discuss the topic at hand.o you didn't C&P. Then how is it that the Wiki reference is almost word for word what you posted.
He then said he didn't C&P nor offer the source, ooops. Adults? What the hell are you doing here then?His only error was not putting quotation marks around the text. Get over it, and let the adults discuss the topic at hand.
You said "Nice C&P from wiki; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_Cake_speech . DM has taught you well."So you didn't C&P? Then how is it that the Wiki reference is almost word for word what you posted. Time? It took me all of 15 seconds.
Actually in the original the DM was in the link. I assume you meant Canada Man or CM as he seems to be the but cut and paste person around. The issue with his cut and pasting is that he often does not actually read the material he posts. You do bitch about his often enough.
Thus with how I read things my response is perfectly cromulent.
If you don't mean CM, what the fuck do you mean. DM? Your comment is nonsense and you never mentioned anything regarding the issue being not putting in my source. I hadn't the clue that was your issue [see point 3 below to figure why] until I saw your most resent whine fest.
If your only issue is that I didn't attribute my cut and paste. Grow the fuck up.
1: I often do, one is allowed to forget.
2: This isn't a paper or a submission to a peer reviewed journal
3: The whole point is to bring forth the poundcake speech and it is clear from the cut and paste that Bill Cosby is the one who made it. It is Bill Cosby's ideas and those are clearly stated. Now if I edited the cut and paste and tried to make them my own, you would have reason to complain. But I didn't. It is utterly clear that I was not presenting my own ideas but those of Cosby. Would I get dinged if I submitted this for a course, yes, but for forum usage I am innocent of any wrong doing.
I never said I didn't pull a C&P, I said I never pulled a Canada Man. "No I didn't. I actually read what I posted. " You see, I said I read what I posted. Noting about denying a C&P or offering a source. So that would make your statement... hmm whats the word for it... a lie? Well, isn't that special.He then said he didn't C&P nor offer the source, ooops. Adults? What the hell are you doing here then?
Jesus you are really desperate in your flame attempts. Either that or you are playing the fool in an attempt to troll me.
No, it's DM as CM usually uses reference, from fringe sources to be sure, but the DM ran into the link, my bad so I corrected it. you obviously didn't try the link i supplied or you would have known it wouldn't work. i suspect you knew what the link would lead to.You said "Nice C&P from wiki; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_Cake_speech . DM has taught you well."
Actually in the original the DM was in the link. I assume you meant Canada Man or CM as he seems to be the but cut and paste person around. The issue with his cut and pasting is that he often does not actually read the material he posts. You do bitch about his often enough.
Thus with how I read things my response is perfectly cromulent.
If you don't mean CM, what the fuck do you mean. DM? Your comment is nonsense and you never mentioned anything regarding the issue being not putting in my source. I hadn't the clue that was your issue [see point 3 below to figure why] until I saw your most resent whine fest.
If your only issue is that I didn't attribute my cut and paste. Grow the fuck up.
1: I often do, one is allowed to forget.
2: This isn't a paper or a submission to a peer reviewed journal
3: The whole point is to bring forth the poundcake speech and it is clear from the cut and paste that Bill Cosby is the one who made it. It is Bill Cosby's ideas and those are clearly stated. Now if I edited the cut and paste and tried to make them my own, you would have reason to complain. But I didn't. It is utterly clear that I was not presenting my own ideas but those of Cosby. Would I get dinged if I submitted this for a course, yes, but for forum usage I am innocent of any wrong doing.
I never said I didn't pull a C&P, I said I never pulled a Canada Man. "No I didn't. I actually read what I posted. " You see, I said I read what I posted. Noting about denying a C&P or offering a source. So that would make your statement... hmm whats the word for it... a lie? Well, isn't that special.
Jesus you are really desperate in your flame attempts. Either that or you are playing the fool in an attempt to troll me.
Nice try on the explanation, but you said, when challenged, that you didn't, period. CM was never mentioned anywhere in your posts or mine, so you knew what you had done and denied it, so perpetuate the con.
You're right, it isn't a paper, but you tried to pull a fast one and got caught. I'll admit you're quick on the spot, but not quick enough.
not if the person 'dressing like a goon' isnt a perpetrator. the star already showed that the TPS has been doing racial profiling for years. so it doesnt work.Nope, quite different. "Don't dress like a slut and you won't get raped" victimizes the victim. "Don't dress like a goon and you won't get harassed" victimizes the perpetrator--and I'm quite comfortable with that!
kids dont even wear baggy clothes anymore.
Thanks!Me too. By far one of the most level headed, insightful posters on this board.
They're at a minimum perpetrating the culture that promotes the violence, so harass away. The black community apparently tolerates these idiots, but the rest of us shouldn't.not if the person 'dressing like a goon' isnt a perpetrator. the star already showed that the TPS has been doing racial profiling for years. so it doesnt work.
kids dont even wear baggy clothes anymore.
Okay first off racial profiling is plain wrong as it is penalizing the majority for the acts of the minority. In other words there are plenty of honest hard working black people who do not commit crimes and should not go through life being harassed for others actions.If you think that won't be effective, I also proposed racial profiling. What solution do you propose?
I agree "fix your own problem" won't be effective--that community doesn't want to take responsibility for its own issues, so the rest of us will probably have to step up and impose some sort of remedy ourselves. What do you suggest?
If you want my suggestions for a fix here it goes...........
First, we have to understnad that what I am suggesting is not based on race because I see the risk factors for crime to effect all races namely income, education, where you live, what your family is like and what your firends are like.
Second, these suggestions are not all encompassing as I am just a regular guy and by no means an expert.
Third, these things will cost money. There's no way around it if crime could be fixed for free it would have been done a long time ago by far brigher minds than me.
Fourth, the fruits of the programs that I am suggesting will take time to ripen.
First off I think we need to deal with what public perceptions are and what is reality..... I notice that newpapers and news in general is biased, despite the ideals it was founded upon. The point I am making is that we have people talking about car jacking black guys. But how often does carjacking happen in Toronto or Canada for that matter? Take a look back in history and vilifying people to get the public to go along with things is an old trick. Look at marijuanna in the USA. They had stories of rapists high on weed who were also minorities. This was taken from the documentary Grass. I am not saying that blacks don't commit crimes I am just saying you don't need to fear as many black people as the news and some terbites would like you to think.
Continuing with the idea of perception..... why doesn't the police put out stats showing how many crimes, arrests and convictions that they have made and coorelate it to race? That way if we could see that the percentage of crimes committed in black neighbourhoods were in fact lower. If I could see stats like that then I would believe that the black community is truly uncooperative. In another thread about the rookie cop who arrested another cop for drunk driving there were plenty of guys talking about the "code" and not "ratting," unfortunately, this type of behaviour crosses all races and you will even see it in children.
I am not saying what reality is like but suggesting that before we make serious claims we need more information.
Okay next topic. Whom to address? If you are pulling over cars with black guys in hoodies hoping to reduce the crime rate you are too late. It's like putting on snow tires after you put your car into a ditch.
We really need to target the youth and the importance of a good education.
Beheviour problems and truancy in school are closely tied to the lack of success a child is having in school. Furthermore, if parental involvement is lacking that's another strong factor. And on top of that, school is modelled with the assumption that Billy has someone to help him with his homework. But if mom is exhausted making ends meet on minimum wage and can barely read and write how is Billy supposed to do the work? Then on top of that if there isn't much structure at home, adapting the rigid confines of school is challenging. Also, if the child doesn't see education being stressed at home they won't see much value in it. Finally, you have a system where the student to teacher ratio is more than 20 to 1 sometimes as high as 36:1. All of this results in a low chance of success for Billy. Which means Billy will not see a lot of point to school and even if he scrape by what can he do with that diploma (assuming he graduates high school)?
So what do I suggest? More of what is already in place but done to a larger scale.
-getting smaller class setting for students who are struggling as soon as grade 1 (if english is 60 minutes we need the teacher to be able to give more than 2 to 3 minutes to each child. And in reality it will be less that as they must manage the class_
-afterschool homework program (heck extend the school day so that kids can work on the things that they have learned with individual or small group help)
-breakfast and lunch programs (many kids go to school hungry)
-uniforms(that way kids don't have to worry about wearing the latest fashions especially if they can't afford it)
-have more counsellors who can take the time to make relationships with at risk kids
-expose kids to more opportunities (some kids never leave their neighbourhood or town)...... this is a big one on why the whole city needs to help and not just the black community..... kids need to be exposed to as many new things as possible and see the world beyond their block.
-police stationed at each school instead of dropping by from time to time...... that way the first time they meet a cop it isn't as a suspect
-more financial aid for post secondary education..... the debt that students amass is pretty scarey and some kids can't imagine coming up with that much money much less pay it off.
-continue to change the perception of foster parents and adoptions, people could make serious changes and impact on older kids who need a home just as much as the highly sought after babie
-more counsellors and support for struggling parents, if you are in a low income situation and trying to raise a child a caring ear might go a long way
-maybe more partnerships with programs like scouts, big brother/sisters, sports, and arts programs to give kids chances to do things that they may never try due to financial restrictions
Okay as for older people who have committed crimes, now we are talking rehabilitation which is another topic and a tough one.
Maybe, people on probation/parole need to live in halfway houses in communities far away from where they live. Much like an addict should avoid their drug friends..... a criminal should probably avoid their criminal friends.
More supervision from parole officers be it check ins, curfews, room searches, drug tests.
More work training opportunities.
More educational opportunities.
More counelling.
In other words the prison sentence needs to be extended with a longer more intense system of rehabilitiation that does more than just house the person for X number of years and expect them to come out reformed.
Other things..... tigher controls at the borders to control the flow of illegal guns and drugs.
Obviously, all of these proposals would combine to a large fortune, but maybe take some of the ideas. Or maybe someone else can refine it. But as I said I'm just a regular guy.
I'm sure some rapists think the same way about women in slutty clubwear.They're at a minimum perpetrating the culture that promotes the violence, so harass away. The black community apparently tolerates these idiots, but the rest of us shouldn't.
Sorry and I forgot to discuss the police.
In addition to stationing police at all schools.
Police need more manpower dedicated to more proactive stuff to target suppliers and kingpins in addition to what they already do.
What would that look like? Take a page out the TV show the wire...... surviellance, attacking the problem from all sides.... the street dealer, the money laundering, the suppliers etc, a commitment of manpower to long investigations. I know this already happens but we need more of it.
In addition to stationing police at all schools.
Police need more manpower dedicated to more proactive stuff to target suppliers and kingpins in addition to what they already do.
What would that look like? Take a page out the TV show the wire...... surviellance, attacking the problem from all sides.... the street dealer, the money laundering, the suppliers etc, a commitment of manpower to long investigations. I know this already happens but we need more of it.
Very nice. You're nicer than I am since I would not have wasted the thought or time to provide this much thought to argue against fuji's point. Taking race out of the equation (which is my preferred method) speaks volumes about how you view society's issues.Okay first off racial profiling is plain wrong as it is penalizing the majority for the acts of the minority. In other words there are plenty of honest hard working black people who do not commit crimes and should not go through life being harassed for others actions.
If you want my suggestions for a fix here it goes...........
First, we have to understnad that what I am suggesting is not based on race because I see the risk factors for crime to effect all races namely income, education, where you live, what your family is like and what your firends are like.
Second, these suggestions are not all encompassing as I am just a regular guy and by no means an expert.
Third, these things will cost money. There's no way around it if crime could be fixed for free it would have been done a long time ago by far brigher minds than me.
Fourth, the fruits of the programs that I am suggesting will take time to ripen.
First off I think we need to deal with what public perceptions are and what is reality..... I notice that newpapers and news in general is biased, despite the ideals it was founded upon. The point I am making is that we have people talking about car jacking black guys. But how often does carjacking happen in Toronto or Canada for that matter? Take a look back in history and vilifying people to get the public to go along with things is an old trick. Look at marijuanna in the USA. They had stories of rapists high on weed who were also minorities. This was taken from the documentary Grass. I am not saying that blacks don't commit crimes I am just saying you don't need to fear as many black people as the news and some terbites would like you to think.
Continuing with the idea of perception..... why doesn't the police put out stats showing how many crimes, arrests and convictions that they have made and coorelate it to race? That way if we could see that the percentage of crimes committed in black neighbourhoods were in fact lower. If I could see stats like that then I would believe that the black community is truly uncooperative. In another thread about the rookie cop who arrested another cop for drunk driving there were plenty of guys talking about the "code" and not "ratting," unfortunately, this type of behaviour crosses all races and you will even see it in children.
I am not saying what reality is like but suggesting that before we make serious claims we need more information.
Okay next topic. Whom to address? If you are pulling over cars with black guys in hoodies hoping to reduce the crime rate you are too late. It's like putting on snow tires after you put your car into a ditch.
We really need to target the youth and the importance of a good education.
Beheviour problems and truancy in school are closely tied to the lack of success a child is having in school. Furthermore, if parental involvement is lacking that's another strong factor. And on top of that, school is modelled with the assumption that Billy has someone to help him with his homework. But if mom is exhausted making ends meet on minimum wage and can barely read and write how is Billy supposed to do the work? Then on top of that if there isn't much structure at home, adapting the rigid confines of school is challenging. Also, if the child doesn't see education being stressed at home they won't see much value in it. Finally, you have a system where the student to teacher ratio is more than 20 to 1 sometimes as high as 36:1. All of this results in a low chance of success for Billy. Which means Billy will not see a lot of point to school and even if he scrape by what can he do with that diploma (assuming he graduates high school)?
So what do I suggest? More of what is already in place but done to a larger scale.
-getting smaller class setting for students who are struggling as soon as grade 1 (if english is 60 minutes we need the teacher to be able to give more than 2 to 3 minutes to each child. And in reality it will be less that as they must manage the class_
-afterschool homework program (heck extend the school day so that kids can work on the things that they have learned with individual or small group help)
-breakfast and lunch programs (many kids go to school hungry)
-uniforms(that way kids don't have to worry about wearing the latest fashions especially if they can't afford it)
-have more counsellors who can take the time to make relationships with at risk kids
-expose kids to more opportunities (some kids never leave their neighbourhood or town)...... this is a big one on why the whole city needs to help and not just the black community..... kids need to be exposed to as many new things as possible and see the world beyond their block.
-police stationed at each school instead of dropping by from time to time...... that way the first time they meet a cop it isn't as a suspect
-more financial aid for post secondary education..... the debt that students amass is pretty scarey and some kids can't imagine coming up with that much money much less pay it off.
-continue to change the perception of foster parents and adoptions, people could make serious changes and impact on older kids who need a home just as much as the highly sought after babie
-more counsellors and support for struggling parents, if you are in a low income situation and trying to raise a child a caring ear might go a long way
-maybe more partnerships with programs like scouts, big brother/sisters, sports, and arts programs to give kids chances to do things that they may never try due to financial restrictions
Okay as for older people who have committed crimes, now we are talking rehabilitation which is another topic and a tough one.
Maybe, people on probation/parole need to live in halfway houses in communities far away from where they live. Much like an addict should avoid their drug friends..... a criminal should probably avoid their criminal friends.
More supervision from parole officers be it check ins, curfews, room searches, drug tests.
More work training opportunities.
More educational opportunities.
More counelling.
In other words the prison sentence needs to be extended with a longer more intense system of rehabilitiation that does more than just house the person for X number of years and expect them to come out reformed.
Other things..... tigher controls at the borders to control the flow of illegal guns and drugs.
Obviously, all of these proposals would combine to a large fortune, but maybe take some of the ideas. Or maybe someone else can refine it. But as I said I'm just a regular guy.
Ok, I'll give it a shot. Canada is composed of many ethnic groups, almost all of whom arrived in Canada piss poor. Yet, there are members of only one ethnic group (thank goodness it is only one group and not more) that go around shooting up Yonge Street and the Eaton Centre? The answer is simple. Other ethnic groups take care of their family responsibilities, businesses and education for their children and that is why they don't go around shooting each other (not to say we all perfect either).Obviously, all of these proposals would combine to a large fortune, but maybe take some of the ideas. Or maybe someone else can refine it.
