Toronto Blue Jays 2011
- Thread starter plyrs99
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Not that amazing since Gonzales has only less home runs. His average is better, he has more RBIs, more doubles, more triples. 334 is great but 354 is better. Than extra 20 points in average between 334 and 354 is huge. With an average above 350, any small slump will significantly affect it.
It's complete and utter b.s. I thought we were past wins and what team a player played for, as was evidenced by T. Lincecum, Z. Greinke and F. Hernandez winning Cy Young awards. ESPN's Jayson Stark, who I normally respect, also gave Adrian Gonzalez the All-Star break MVP award, too.
A. Gonzalez greatly benefits from the Green Monster at Fenway Park for a lot of his hits, and especially doubles. He has a much better lineup (one of the most potent lineups in baseball history when healthy w. 4 of the top 9 offensive WAR players) in front of (men on base = RBIs) and behind him (lineup protection = can't pitch around him.) Only Adam Lind would be considered an above-average offensive player in the Blue Jays' lineup.
Gonzalez's Red Sox pitching staff top to bottom is vastly superior, which would be expected with a payroll of $160+ M (compared with the Jays' ~$62M.) Not to mention the fact that Bautista plays two more important defensive postions (RF and 3B) at least as well as A-Gone plays a far less important position (1B.) Oh, and Bautista is a superior baserunner as well.
Jose Bautista's WAR: 6.5 w. OPS of 1.169 [Adj OPS 216] - Adrian Gonzalez's WAR: 4.8 (1.001 OPS - [Adj OPS 169.])
Rodriguez supporters in the media are a) completely full of shit b) looking to give an MVP to the Sox or, c) else want to make up for not giving him more support when he carried crappy Padres teams like Joey Bats is doing with the Jays. If they give Gonzalez the MVP, it will be worse than when the writers voted Justin Morneau MVP over several more deserving candidates (Jeter, Mauer, Sizemore, C. Guillen) in 2006.
When I first looked at the blown save stat I was surprised to see how many there actually were, Rivera has 4, for example, which is more than I would have expected from him. However, when you send a "closer" out with a lead you want to have that warm and fuzzy feeling he will get the side out, when Francisco comes out I pour another drink. The Jays have lost games they should have won cause their relief pitching SUCKS! (They have other issues as well, i.e.outfield defensively) I'm not sure how overblown the stats are or aren't but the quality of the closer is important to a teams W-L record.
"Saves" is a funny stat. Papelbon can come in, allow 2 earned runs and get a save. Another reliever in a different game can come in and allow 2 runs and get charged with a "blown save". How many of Papelbon's saves is because he comes in with a 3 or 2 run lead?
Escobar would be considered an above average offensive player would he not? And Thames although early in his career looks very promising ( great bat speed).
The second half could line up to be monumental for J.Bats if these players continue to play to their capabilities.
It's to the point for me that the first thing I check in the Box scores is whether Bautista had a good game or not. The rest is somewhat inconsequential. Of course that could also be because I'm a Yankee raised fanatic.
Jose should have stayed out of the HR derby. Hope it doesn't screw up his swing. Rios was never the same.
Escobar is having a good season and was trending that way early in his career, but he's coming off a terrible 2010 and has to prove himself as a day-in, day-out above average player. Thames is a rookie and no one has any idea how good he is. I get the feeling that he's a 4th outfielder/DH/platoon-type player.
Sadly, Aaron Hill looks like he's done after a promising 2007 & 2009. The jury's still out on Travis Snider, but I think he's going to be good. JP Arencibia looks decent, but has some work to do. Brett Lawrie could be the next big thing.
Jose Bautista is "that guy" right now. Must see TV. Like Bonds, McGwire, etc., in recent years. And Joey Bats has less lineup protection than any super-duperstar in recent memory.
(Biting tongue on the Yankees fan bit...)
The Jays bullpen is inconsistent and in my opinion SUCKS. Kevin Gregg is not a great closer but compared to what the Jays currently have he would be an improvement. I was quite happy when Gregg signed with Baltimore until I saw what AA replaced him with. Out of the current group of relievers,Camp, in my opinion is the best and he can be shaky. Camp is a decent mop up set up but not a closer. Rauch has his moments and I can live with him. The rest are a nightmare, they can't or won't throw strikes, and the batters are ready for them. if they do throw a strike. Jansen should help when he returns. Agreed the bullpen started strong then everyone got to see them and now the batters are ahead of them. The Jays solutions in the minors are currently starters and it will take a while(maybe years) before a decision is made to convert one to a closer.
Starters are at worst satisfactory, now, but once they tire anything can happen.
Going to disagree with you on Thames Cappy. I get the feeling he will be a solid everyday contributor. Time will tell I guess.Escobar is having a good season and was trending that way early in his career, but he's coming off a terrible 2010 and has to prove himself as a day-in, day-out above average player. Thames is a rookie and no one has any idea how good he is. I get the feeling that he's a 4th outfielder/DH/platoon-type player.
Sadly, Aaron Hill looks like he's done after a promising 2007 & 2009. The jury's still out on Travis Snider, but I think he's going to be good. JP Arencibia looks decent, but has some work to do. Brett Lawrie could be the next big thing.
(Biting tongue on the Yankees fan bit...)
Hill has never been the same since he suffered that concussion and I fear never will. The only thing than can stop Brett Lawrie is himself as he can be a bit of a wild child off the field.Snider is on the cusp right now and can be frustrating too watch.
Take head of McDade in New Hampshire, he is putting up some impressive numbers in a not so hitting friendly league as the PCL. But with Lind entrenched at first and Cooper beating the hell out of the ball in Vegas where does he fit?
Hill had a pretty good 2009. 36 HR, 108 RBI, .286 BA, .991 feilding %, Sliver slugger award and starting 2B at the All Star game. I'll take another one of those!
You are right and I am wrong, upon checking he had his concussion in 2008. Thanks for correcting me, I should have been more thorough.
The problem is in averaging as it hides the worst performers.
We can review the strength of the bullpen using era as a somewhat crude measure of performance - the average is currently 3.85.
The bullpen started with Villanueva and Janssen - two much better than average relievers.
Right now Frasor and Rzepczynski have respectable era's of around 3.0. Dotel also has a better than average era.
Camp, Rauch and Francisco have poor era's.
Probably fair to say they are around the average as a team, but fans would want something much better especially out of their closers.
With Janssen and Villanueva back as relievers, and a solid closer the bullpen would be much stronger.
ERA is not a good stat to judge a reliever, due to the low number of innings pitched, one can be a very good closer with only one or two blown saves, but because of that will have an over inflated era, also early in the season a reliever can have an incredibly low era with lots of appearances but since it's based on only a few innings pitched it doesn't state much.
Id say whip and inherited runners scored are a more important things to judge a reliever by.
Maybe if our guys just started throwing strikes it would work out better.
Id say whip and inherited runners scored are a more important things to judge a reliever by.
Maybe if our guys just started throwing strikes it would work out better.
Wasn't a bad all star game. I think baseball is the only major sport where the all star game is a real game. (Maybe basketball too.) In both the NHL and NFL, their all star game is a "no contact" game.
Whoa there, NBA all star games suck, there is no effort on defence , same goes for Hockey, Baseball work out a bit better as there is rarely player vs. player contact of any kind as that is the nature of the game.
It's still a joke as the "manager" can only play any given player an inning or two at most, and is under pressure to play as many players as possible.
Disagree with your no defense, Bautista's grab in right was outstanding.
The games are usually boring, just a chance to see the best players in the league at one time.
Usualy more of a friendly game than a competition.
