Is the Kessel trade the greatest fleecing in NHL history?

[Captain Fantastic]

I don't think Vince has much respect in the league. I would say he's thought of as a modern day Dominique Wilkins or Reggie Theus. Guys who can light it up consistently but they won't pay the price especially on defense to ever lead a team to a championship. I would say he's perceived as soft.

I agree that "Wince" is probably considered soft and doesn't have the respect of many in the league.

Reggie Theus - perhaps, but he was never a superstar.

Dominique Wilkins? You're way off base. He was never perceived as soft, played hard, won at least four playoff series, but had didn't have a lot of support in Atlanta to go all the way in the Celtics (Bird, et al), Pistons (Zeke, et al) and Bulls (MJ et al) dynasty eras.

Better comparisons: Penny Hardaway, Cousin Tracy McGrady, Grant Hill (pre-injuries with Detroit he was considered "soft.")

 

[alwayslooking]

'Nique did play hard but much like Vince he wasn't too interested on defence. His surrounding cast wasn't all that bad either. Doc Rivers was a pretty good point guard, not elite but good. Kevin Willis was a beast on the boards though

 

[futurelegend]

In saying that he was one of the biggest flops in league history, I meant that when he came into the league, because of his incredible athleticism, quickness, perimeter game and obvious hops, he was called the "air" apparent. Many called him the next Kobe Bryant or dare I say, Michael Jordan. There was tremendous hope for his career, but he lacks the heart to be put in the same class as those individuals.

VC has had a good career, but has never lived up to the potential of superstar. He has always just been a decent player with some upside. For the most part, I believe that his name will be quickly forgotten along with his career, once he calls it quits, with the exception of a few highlight reel dunks.

I would group him with the likes of Chris Webber, Penny Hardaway, Marcus Camby, Shawn Bradley and maybe T-Mac.

However, I will admit that VC was still not a complete bust like Sam Bowie, Kwame Brown or "The Kandi Man" Michael Olowakandi.

 

[smuddan]

Shouldnt you guys be talking about the Vince trade (by TO to NJ) instead as that might be more related to the opening post ? We really didn't get much, although Vince was essentially past his prime when he was traded.

 

[jred2171]

absolutely not, the leafs just don't have a quality center, they should have tried to get savard.

 

[Dawgger]

Shouldnt you guys be talking about the Vince trade (by TO to NJ) instead as that might be more related to the opening post ? We really didn't get much, although Vince was essentially past his prime when he was traded.

Actually, this trade was the beginning of the end for the Raps. They gave up an alleged superstar and got nothing back. Had they picked up a couple of decent pieces to with a young Bosh things would be a lot different here now.

 

[fmahovalich]

Monitoring the trade

I will post occasional stats and see how we are doing....

Feb 7th, 2011

KESSEL 52 19 15 34
SEGUIN 51 8 9 17


Leafs continue to win this trade as of this date!

 

[alwayslooking]

I will post occasional stats and see how we are doing....

Feb 7th, 2011

KESSEL 52 19 15 34
SEGUIN 51 8 9 17


Leafs continue to win this trade as of this date!

Pretty big coinkidink that you decide to post these stats today considering the news coming out of Leafs camp.

 

[gcostanza]

I will post occasional stats and see how we are doing....

Feb 7th, 2011

KESSEL 52 19 15 34
SEGUIN 51 8 9 17


Leafs continue to win this trade as of this date!

Kessel -22
Seguin +1

 

[alwayslooking]

Funny watching Kessel and Wilson dealing with the press. Kessel seems immature and petulant and Wilson is just Wilson. How anyone thought this guy(Wilson) and his persona could deal with the Toronto media is beyond me. After seeing some of his dealings with TSN while he was in San Jose I don't think it was much of a stretch to see him having problems in the magnifying glass that is Leaf land. As for Kessel some of the traits that made him a not so popular teammate in Boston seem to be coming forward in Toronto. I think he would much rather play in Florida or Arizona where the press ignores the NHL than in Toronto. His mental makeup should have been a factor before the trade was made.

 

[kirmit129]

I will post occasional stats and see how we are doing....

Feb 7th, 2011

KESSEL 52 19 15 34
SEGUIN 51 8 9 17


Leafs continue to win this trade as of this date!

Maybe we should compare with both Seguin and Hall since had the Leafs not made that trade, they may have gotten the first overall pick. Let's not compare in terms of who won and who lost but in terms of good, bad, or insignificant trade.

HALL 52 17 15 32 -9 (Playing for Edmonton)
SEGUIN 51 8 9 17 +1
KESSEL 52 19 15 34 -22

Add the above to the salary difference and the first rounder this year and things are not looking good. I would not call it a terrible trade yet but it definately does not look good.

 

[Rockslinger]

they should have tried to get savard.

Savard is damaged goods. Not sure he would have pass the medical. The Bruins have shut Savard down for the rest of the season (another concussion).

 

[alwayslooking]

I don't think any Leafs fan would want to grade this trade on a total points basis. In a couple of years the Bruins could have 3 NHLers vs Kessel for the Leafs. This trade will be judged on impact and playoff success. Not who scores the most points.

 

[kirmit129]

btw, who did Boston pick with Toronto's 2010 2nd rounder?

 

[gcostanza]

btw, who did Boston pick with Toronto's 2010 2nd rounder?

Jared Knight.

 

[fmahovalich]

I got no problem dealing with any comparisons...but typically comparisons are made in the NOW...not the hypothetical.

The trade was the trade....Kessel for Seguin et al.

HALL does not factor.

As for + / - those stats can be compared too.

Albeit, you have to look at the team each is playing on ....penalties..all that stuff.

We could expand on that by saying BRUINS are a pretty good team - yet SEGUIN is only getting half the points of Kessel. Therefore the SEGUIN +/- is related.

Or we could say KESSEL is on a team that sucks...and he still is doubling SEGUIN.

Stats can say whatever you want them to...thats why its best to deal with the raw data.

 

[gcostanza]

Penalties do not affect +/- , power play & short handed goals are ignored in calculating +/- .

Do you have a number for points vs t.o.i. ?

 

[Rockslinger]

Good news. Kessel and Wilson had a pleasant conversation behind closed doors and they are best friends again. Leafs win to-night. Kessel says he loves Toronto and doesn't want to leave.

 

[jred2171]

Kessel could have easily got first star in the last two games, he has played great, set up a couple beautiful goals. so what if he doesn't score, if the leafs win every game until playoffs.

 

[wigglee]

what about Russ Courtnall for John Kordic ? Habs fleeced the Leafs there!