Why Religion Fails

[blackrock13]

And for every post like yours, there's one of mine: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/einstein.html

Einstein believed due to the complexity of the universe there had to be some kind of Creator. What he couldnt accept was the human suffering at the hands of this same creator, so I guess he was kinda like me "sitting on the fence and not really sure"

Your link is fine except I read nothing that supported your claim that he believed in god, except for this mention of 'Spenoza's god' which to me is more another name for nature which I see as something different .

http://www.waterwind.com/spinoza.html

"Spinoza asserted that for a concept of god to make any sense at all, it must simply be nature. That is, god cannot be something outside nature that controls it, but must necessarily be part of it. According to Spinoza, God IS nature. While Spinoza was excommunicated from his Jewish community in Amsterdam and condemned by Christians as well for being an atheist, he was very devoutly religious. He saw the traditional anthropomorphic (man-like) god as an abomination, completely rejecting the wonder of nature, from which life comes. To Spinoza, nature is the true expression of God. And each of us is part of it. Unfortunately, his highly technical, mathematical style of writing limited widespread appreciation of his work."

from your link;

"I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God."6

Also keep on mind that the source itself is aimed at supporting the idea of a deity and it's balance can be easily questioned.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

The only pronlem is that if one reads the link you provide, it clearly recognizes that Einstein does not believe in a "God".

You didnt read the whole thing, did you?

 

[blackrock13]

You didnt read the whole thing, did you?

What passage in that link, which apparently DM and I missed, supports your position,

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

What passage in that link, which apparently DM and I missed, supports your position,

However, it would also seem that Einstein was not an atheist, since he also complained about being put into that camp:

"In view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognize, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what really makes me angry is that they quote me for the support of such views."5

"I'm not an atheist and I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangements of the books, but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God

That tels me he at least keeps the option open of some form of deity.

There are quotes where he feels the universe must have been created by some deity, I'll post them later if I can find them

 

[Mervyn]

Einstein (imho) is probably best described as an agnostic , who doubts come from the fact that he believes there is something, but he was never able to define or measure it in any substantial manner he found satisfactory. But he still believed there was something there.

He is quoted as saying he does not believe in a Personal God however.

 

[blackrock13]

That tels me he at least keeps the option open of some form of deity.

There are quotes where he feels the universe must have been created by some deity, I'll post them later if I can find them

That's almost a classic definition of Agnostic and a good definition of a very good scientist.

 

[oil&gas]

That tels me he at least keeps the option open of some form of deity.

There are quotes where he feels the universe must have been created by some deity, I'll post them later if I can find them

Einstein's idea of God is nothing like the God worshiped by theists. He didn't
even believe in prayer and soul. There is more than a few great physicists who
were orthodox Christians. Off the top of my head I can think of James Clerk
Maxwell, Michael Faraday and maybe Niels Bohr. Somehow Einstein is
most often cited by Christians as an example of a great scientist who believes
in God.

 

[danmand]

Einstein's idea of God is nothing like the God worshiped by theists. He didn't
even believe in prayer and soul. There is more than a few great physicists who
were orthodox Christians. Off the top of my head I can think of James Clerk
Maxwell, Michael Faraday and maybe Niels Bohr. Somehow Einstein is
most often cited by Christians as an example of a great scientist who believes
in God.

I don't think you should include Niels Bohr. I believe he was close to having the same opinions as Einstein, even if the two of them had a serious disagreement about "God playing dice".

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

That's almost a classic definition of Agnostic and a good definition of a very good scientist.

Agreed, but I think he was more leaning towards a very open minded agnostic as opposed to close minded agnostic.

His main sticking point was how a good God could allow so much misery in this world, a concept I also sometimes struggle with

 

[blackrock13]

Agreed, but I think he was more leaning towards a very open minded agnostic as opposed to close minded agnostic.

His main sticking point was how a good God could allow so much misery in this world, a concept I also sometimes struggle with

Now you're just slicing a slice, to save your point. His agnosticism can't be dissected into to being open minded or closed minded. He's either an agnostic or he's not.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Now you're just slicing a slice, to save your point. His agnosticism can't be dissected into to being open minded or closed minded. He's either an agnostic or he's not.

I'm not trying to do anything, buddy.

Here, you want some more quotes that he at least leaned towards the possibility of a deity: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html

Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists."

This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

That to me does not sound like he's 100% agnostic.
He may have been agnostic early on in life, but I think he changed his tune as he got older

 

[RadicalAchmed69]

This thread is FAIL.

Yours,

Achmed

 

[blackrock13]

This thread is FAIL.

Yours,

Achmed

WoW! Thanks for coming out. Feel better now?

 

[blackrock13]

I'm not trying to do anything, buddy.

Here, you want some more quotes that he at least leaned towards the possibility of a deity: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html


That to me does not sound like he's 100% agnostic.
He may have been agnostic early on in life, but I think he changed his tune as he got older

Again from the same web site. Can't find someone else to support this position?

"Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Remembering the source again being, http://www.godandscience.org/, I'd like to see the whole quote that these snippets are taken from.

To take this comment;

Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed.

and claim it means he must believe in God is a total stretch, but that's almost the sole focus of that web sight, so of course they'd make that claim.

As for his views later in life up to two year of his passing, the collection of quotes on this topic I supplied earlier, from different sources, apparently say different. You're just going around in circles now and getting quite boring.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

You're just going around in circles now and getting quite boring

I think you're just too dumb to get it. Einstein apparently changed his mind later in life.
Ever heard the phrase "only a fool never changes his mind"??

Does below not sound to you like at some point later in life started believing in some type of deity??!

I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

Anyways, I think you just like to argue online, so I'll give you the last word

 

[Mervyn]

Einstein's idea of God is nothing like the God worshiped by theists. He didn't
even believe in prayer and soul. There is more than a few great physicists who
were orthodox Christians. Off the top of my head I can think of James Clerk
Maxwell, Michael Faraday and maybe Niels Bohr. Somehow Einstein is
most often cited by Christians as an example of a great scientist who believes
in God.

He is also quoted by many atheists as being an athiest

 

[oil&gas]

............................................................
His main sticking point was how a good God could allow so much misery in this world, a concept I also sometimes struggle with

I've read about Einstein finding the idea of a God passing judgment on His creation
strange. I would be very surprised if his skepticism had its base in misery in this world.
Whether Einstein actually believed in God or not I think a man of his intellect has to
be more profound than that.

 

[blackrock13]

He is also quoted by many atheists as being an athiest

They just wanted company

 

[oil&gas]

He is also quoted by many atheists as being an athiest

I believe Einstein wasn't keen about being labeled an atheist. He probably would prefer
to be identified as a pantheist.

 

[blackrock13]

I think you're just too dumb to get it. Einstein apparently changed his mind later in life.
Ever heard the phrase "only a fool never changes his mind"??

Does below not sound to you like at some point later in life started believing in some type of deity??!

Anyways, I think you just like to argue online, so I'll give you the last word

It seems to be only apparent to you, for reason already explained. How much later in life di he make this change? You keep saying later in life but a quote supplied within 2 years of his death show otherwise.