Why Religion Fails

[rld]

there is a big difference between a belief in the possibility of a divine intelligence permeating all things, and the crock of twisted irrationality that fundamentalist religious types regularly spew.

True dat.

 

[canada-man]

Religious Harrasment


Atheists make Pennsylvanian man sick, so he retaliates with brightly-lit crosses

CARL Behr’s crosses have caused a bit of kerfuffle in Baldwin, near Pittsburg.

There are two of the illuminated crosses on Behr’s property: one on the roof of his house, and a larger one facing his neighbor’s property.

And the neighbour, Lisa Fera, ain’t happy. According to this report, Fera claims the light streams in her windows at night. She said Behr was running a contracting business out of his home and she thinks the cross is his way of getting back at her for complaining about it.

Said Fera:

I shouldn’t have to come home and see a dump truck and bobcats and see heavy equipment. Every cross that went up came as a direct result of conflict that we had.

But Behr said:

It’s a measurement of my faith. The way the world’s coming with all these atheists, it makes me sick to my stomach. If I can turn one soul towards the Lord with my sign, it was well worth all my efforts.

Fera retorted:

This is not a religion thing. It’s not about me being against the cross, or religion, or God, because I have a lot of faith in God. It’s more about trying to keep community – the value of your community – up.

Police showed up recently at 12:30 a.m. to ask Behr to turn the lights off, which he did. He says he now turns them off at a more reasonable hour.

http://freethinker.co.uk/2011/02/10...k-so-he-retaliates-with-brightly-lit-crosses/

 

[good to go]

Religion fails now more than ever since we have the internet and can discuss this on a more global level. Plus when all of the Catholic church leaders are exposed we all see it more clearly for what it is. A way to control peoples thoughts and emotions to lead them to what you want chaos. Scare tactics of gangs and terrorists are making people fear the world as a whole.

 

[rld]

Religious Harrasment


Atheists make Pennsylvanian man sick, so he retaliates with brightly-lit crosses

CARL Behr’s crosses have caused a bit of kerfuffle in Baldwin, near Pittsburg.

There are two of the illuminated crosses on Behr’s property: one on the roof of his house, and a larger one facing his neighbor’s property.

And the neighbour, Lisa Fera, ain’t happy. According to this report, Fera claims the light streams in her windows at night. She said Behr was running a contracting business out of his home and she thinks the cross is his way of getting back at her for complaining about it.

Said Fera:

I shouldn’t have to come home and see a dump truck and bobcats and see heavy equipment. Every cross that went up came as a direct result of conflict that we had.

But Behr said:

It’s a measurement of my faith. The way the world’s coming with all these atheists, it makes me sick to my stomach. If I can turn one soul towards the Lord with my sign, it was well worth all my efforts.

Fera retorted:

This is not a religion thing. It’s not about me being against the cross, or religion, or God, because I have a lot of faith in God. It’s more about trying to keep community – the value of your community – up.

Police showed up recently at 12:30 a.m. to ask Behr to turn the lights off, which he did. He says he now turns them off at a more reasonable hour.

http://freethinker.co.uk/2011/02/10...k-so-he-retaliates-with-brightly-lit-crosses/

Canada Man hits a new low for weak evidence and argument.

This one is too funny.

I blame CM's deficient education.

 

[rld]

Religion fails now more than ever since we have the internet and can discuss this on a more global level. Plus when all of the Catholic church leaders are exposed we all see it more clearly for what it is. A way to control peoples thoughts and emotions to lead them to what you want chaos. Scare tactics of gangs and terrorists are making people fear the world as a whole.

Actually, organized religions do the reverse, they move people towards order not chaos. You may not like the organization they promote but your bias towards religion seems to have put you in a spot where you have the facts backwards.

And you should know that religion is growing worldwide including the Catholic Church.

OF course the primitive propaganda tactic of conflating religion and terrorism in the same paragraph is cute, if intellectually dishonest. Mao and Stalin would be proud of you. Probably Dawkins as well.

 

[vyrguy]

Oh come on guys, I thought Dan Brown had settled this years ago.

 

[canada-man]

Actually, organized religions do the reverse, they move people towards order not chaos. You may not like the organization they promote but your bias towards religion seems to have put you in a spot where you have the facts backwards.

And you should know that religion is growing worldwide including the Catholic Church.

OF course the primitive propaganda tactic of conflating religion and terrorism in the same paragraph is cute, if intellectually dishonest. Mao and Stalin would be proud of you. Probably Dawkins as well.

the only places that relgion is growing are areas where poverty, illiteracy and lack of education thrives.

 

[rld]

the only places that relgion is growing are areas where poverty, illiteracy and lack of education thrives.

Like your home? Come on...an article about two christian neighbours who say the lights are too bright is your argument?

And, while some of the places where religion is growing, have lower rates of literacy than we do, they are places where literacy and education are on the rise. If you knew shit about the history of education and literacy you would know that historically literacy and education have been driven by the church.

And in states that don't have the infrastructure to provide education and medical care, this is often provided by religious groups.

But your hate keeps blinding you to the real world.

 

[canada-man]

Like your home? Come on...an article about two christian neighbours who say the lights are too bright is your argument?

And, while some of the places where religion is growing, have lower rates of literacy than we do, they are places where literacy and education are on the rise. If you knew shit about the history of education and literacy you would know that historically literacy and education have been driven by the church.

And in states that don't have the infrastructure to provide education and medical care, this is often provided by religious groups.

But your hate keeps blinding you to the real world.

history has shown us relgious groups that start schools do this to GAIN converts and convert children to thier faiths. christian schools and universities still do this today. they controll what thier students do and tell them how to run thier lives like a big brother in the book "1984 they tell students what programs watch,what music to listened to, expect them to go to mandatory chapel services and students who don't go face disciplinary action and allowed to question the school's relgious beliefs. an example in toronto is Tyndale university college and seminary in the bayview and steeles area(read their student handbook and handbooks from other christian runned schools and universities posted on thier websites in PDF format)


Hamas, Hezbollah and other religious groups which are labeled as terrorist organizations also run hospitals and educational infrastructure

 

[rld]

history has shown us relgious groups that start schools do this to GAIN converts and convert children to thier faiths. christian schools and universities do this today. they controll what thier students, watch, listened to expect them to go to chapel service every sunday and students who don't go face disciplinary action and allowed to question the school's relgious beliefs. an example in toronto is Tyndale university and seminary in the bayview and steeles area(read thier student handbooks and handbooks from other christian runned schools and universities posted on thier websites in PDF format)


Hamas, Hezbollah and other relgious groups which are labelled as terrorist organazations also run hospitals and educational infrastructure

And we have a very fine Catholic school system in Ontario, but that is not at all what you were talking about, nice try to dodge again.

Is your argument that children in say...Angola are better off with no education or medical care, than that provided by religious groups?

Are homeless people and mentally ill people and the elderly better off freezing to death or dying alone because there is no more Sally Anne or other religious groups helping them?

Because we already know secular humanists don't do nearly the amount of alteristic volunteering or donating than religious folks.

 

[canada-man]

And we have a very fine Catholic school system in Ontario, but that is not at all what you were talking about, nice try to dodge again.

Is your argument that children in say...Angola are better off with no education or medical care, than that provided by religious groups?

Are homeless people and mentally ill people and the elderly better off freezing to death or dying alone because there is no more Sally Anne or other religious groups helping them?

Because we already know secular humanists don't do nearly the amount of alteristic volunteering or donating than religious folks.

there are secular charities and organizations that do just as good as religious charities, examples are the united way, red cross, doctors without borders, plan canada, Amnesty International, etc

 

[rld]

there are secular charities and organizations that do just as good as religious charities, examples are the united way, red cross, doctors without borders, plan canada, Amnesty International, etc

I don't disagree. But you are dodging the question, as usual. And those organization are funded more by religious people than secular folk. Looks like the religious folk are doing all the hard charitable lifting.

The question was in the child in Angola better off with no education or a religious school?

 

[rld]

A prominent athiest critiques Canada Man and his ilk of evangelical athiets:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-stedman/evangelical-atheists-what_b_765379.html

All the more, I added, I actually celebrate religious beliefs that motivate people to engage in social justice work. Historical figures like the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Mahatma Gandhi, Thich Nhat Hanh, Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel and Monsignor Oscar Romero cited their faith as the primary impetus for their social justice work and launched their efforts through interfaith coalitions. Because of their efforts and the efforts of others like them, I actually believe that the world would suffer a serious loss if religion disappeared.

and

I am encouraged by a new generation of humanists, atheists, agnostics, skeptics, freethinkers and others who wish to operate in a way that is constructive instead of deconstructive. We are led by people like Lucy Gubbins, an atheist who co-founded the University of Oregon's Alliance of Happy Atheists, who is working to both create secular community and identify opportunities for collaboration with the religious. Gubbins and those like her are more concerned with these positive efforts than with striving to de-convert the religious. And our numbers are growing every day - several Yale students approached me after our discussion to ask how they could get involved in interfaith work.

and

It's just a hypothesis, but I wonder if fewer nonreligious people would actively try to dismantle religious communities if we had a more coherent community of our own. Perhaps if we spend less energy negatively "evangelizing," we'll find ourselves well positioned to reach out in ways that build bridges instead of tearing them down.

Looks like the athiesm movement is starting to mature and leaving people like Hitchens and Canada Man behind. Bully for them!

 

[blackrock13]

A prominent athiest critiques Canada Man and his ilk of evangelical atheists:


Looks like the athiesm movement is starting to mature and leaving people like Hitchens and Canada Man behind. Bully for them!

Interesting term.

I don't get all bent out of shape when someone says they want/need/use the belief in a divine whatever to explain the unknown, but don't look down on me and think me less of a person because I don't.


Evangelicals are like the football fan that has a cave in the basement back home covered in memorabilia of the favorite team and goes to the game dressed in ridiculous outfits with painted face, with a giant noise makers and headgear that shoot flames out the top.

Sit down in front of the tele with a couple of friends, crack open a wobbly pop and cheer your team OR read the Good Book. Go for it.

 

[rld]

And it looks like evangelical churches are in the same boat as evangelical athiests. A movement away from radicalism on both fronts would be a good step:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-pardi/religion-evolved_b_820748.html

 

[canada-man]

Theocratic encroachment on Society

Is being a foe of church-state separation a prerequisite to being elected in Kentucky? How else can you explain all the work Kentucky government officials have done in the past two months to chip away at the church-state wall?

Yesterday, in the latest anti-separation move, the Kentucky Senate passed a measure that would mandate creation of an official Bible curriculum for Kentucky’s public schools.

SB 56, which sailed through 34-1, directs the Kentucky Board of Education to create guidelines for a social studies elective on the Bible. (Kudos to Sen. Kathy Stein, a former AU National Advisory Council member and the lone vote against the measure!)

State Sen. Joe Bowen introduced the bill this year. Last year, the same measure passed the Senate, but failed in the House – a scenario that (hopefully) may repeat itself this year.

“No doubt about it, the most important book ever written, and obviously, it’s had so much influence on our society and all of Western civilization,” Bowen said of the reason why he wants to ensure Kentucky students have a chance to learn about the Bible.

The courts have deemed that courses on the Bible may be taught in public schools, so long as they are taught from an academic perspective, not as a way to indoctrinate.

Bowen claims SB 56 is merely providing a roadmap for how teachers can successfully teach these courses. The measure states the board should create guidelines for a course on the Bible’s influence on “literature, art, music, mores, oratory and public policy.” It mandates that the course maintain “religious neutrality” and respect “the diverse religious views of students.”

But is this measure really about academics and “religious neutrality?” And what does Bowen mean when he intimates that the Bible has a role in “public policy?”

Sen. Tim Shaughnessy, who voted for the measure last year, took a “closer look” this year before deciding not to cast a vote at all. He said the legislation includes a provision that permits students to use their own texts for the course. That “throws academic credibility out the window,” he noted.

State. Rep. Reggie Meeks also criticized the Senate for pandering to conservative Christian voters.

“It’s like waving meat in front of a dog, OK? You give them what they want,” Meeks told a local news station.

You give them what they want – even if it comes at the Constitution’s expense – and the expense of religious minorities and nonbelievers who may not want their public schools promoting one faith’s sacred scriptures.

Gov. Steve Beshear also seems eager to cater to religious voters. He recently apologized to self-anointed “chaplain to the state capitol” Lee Watts for mistakenly denying Watts’ request to place a display in the state capitol of religious phrases wrenched from their original contexts in historical and governmental documents.

(Although referred to by both politicians and the media as a “legislative chaplain,” Watts is nothing of the kind. In fact, he’s just another Religious Right activist doing everything in his power to usher in a fundamentalist Christian theocracy. His “God and Country Ministry” says America was “founded as a Christian nation, and she can be again, but it will take a new generation of patriots.”)

Initially, State Curator David Buchta, head of the Kentucky Division of Historic Properties, made the right call and denied Watts’ requests based on concerns about church-state separation. But Beshear’s office soon stepped in.

“We are disappointed in this misunderstanding,” said Kerri Richardson, a spokeswoman for Beshear. “We have advised Chaplain Watts that Mr. Buchta was incorrect, and the governor’s office is working with Chaplain Watts to post historical documents in the tunnel.”

But it doesn’t stop there. Kentucky legislators have also introduced an anti-evolution bill this session, and the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet has unveiled a new standard-issue license plate with the words, “In God We Trust.”

Beshear has also voiced his strong support for the building of a creationist theme park featuring a full-scale replica of Noah’s ark – and lots of fundamentalist proselytizing. He has promised developers tax incentives to build in the Bluegrass State.

It’s clear Kentucky needs help. If you live in the Commonwealth, write to your state legislators and Gov. Beshear and let them know you want a strong wall between separation of church and state. The state has a lot of problems that need addressing; elected officials ought to focus on those, not meddling in religion.

http://blog.au.org/2011/02/11/pious...medium=feed&utm_campaign=Recently-on-homepage

 

[canada-man]

Fears for man who filmed Indonesia mob attack

Fears for man who filmed Indonesia mob attack

By Presi Mandari (AFP) – 1 day ago

JAKARTA — An Indonesian man who risked his life to film a mob brutally lynching members of his minority Islamic sect is in grave danger and has gone into hiding, rights activists said Friday.

The harrowing video of Sunday's attack shocked the mainly Muslim nation and graphically illustrated rising levels of intolerance and violence directed at religious minorities such as the Ahmadiyah sect.

It showed police running away as hundreds of Muslim thugs screaming "Allahu akbar" (God is greatest) attacked a house belonging to an Ahmadiyah leader. Three sect members were stabbed, clubbed and stoned to death.

"There was a warning from the national police detective that if the man appears in public, his life could be in danger," National Human Rights Commission deputy chairman Joseph Adi Prasetyo told reporters.

"Based on information from the police intelligence unit, the situation was very dangerous and could lead to his death."

The commission cancelled a press conference with the man, identified only as a civil servant called Arif, due to the unspecified threats. Arif was seen being led away to secure location wearing dark sunglasses.

National police spokesman Boy Rafli Amar confirmed that Arif, a member of the Ahmadiyah community, which numbers in the hundreds of thousands in Indonesia, was under police protection.

"Arif is being questioned as a witness related to the Cikeusik incident," he added.

The Ahmadiyah differ from orthodox Muslims in that they do not believe Mohammed was the last prophet. Under pressure from hardliners in 2008, the government issued a decree restricting their religious freedoms.

Police earlier five people had been arrested over the lynching in Cikeusik village, West Java province, and others seen in the video were being hunted down.

More than 1,000 extremist Muslims took part in the assault, armed with machetes, sticks and stones, and wearing blue ribbons to identify themselves from their targets.

Arif filmed them entering the front yard and pushing police aside with shouts of "infidel" and "burn the Ahmadiyah".

A small group of Ahmadiyah inside responded with rocks and punches but were quickly overwhelmed.

Apparently mistaken for a journalist by the mob, Arif kept filming as the attackers began destroying the house and hunting down any defenders who had tried to flee.

One half-naked man was filmed being clubbed and stoned to death in the yard, while the bodies of two others were filmed being clubbed, stoned and otherwise defiled as onlookers laughed and took photographs.

Police knew of the attack but failed to intervene to protect the Ahmadiyah. The footage shows police fleeing the initial clash and milling around in the mob passively observing the mayhem.

A police spokesman said that provincial police chief Agus Kusnadi, who supervised the area, had been demoted.

"The demotion was caused by the interest of the organisation. There was a system that did not run well," police spokesman Anton Bachrul Alam said.

Similar attacks in the past have been attributed to Ahmadiyah "provocations", and while some Muslim leaders have tried to blame the victims again this week the film speaks for itself.

Two days later another mob of enraged Muslims rampaged through the streets of Temanggung, Central Java, and set fire to churches after a Christian man was jailed for insulting Islam. The crowd wanted him executed.

Police said eight people had been arrested over the incident.

President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono has ordered the police to go "all-out" against any extremist groups behind the unrest, although none has claimed responsibility.

Human rights activists say the ex-general has repeatedly failed to tackle the sources of intolerance in the country of 240 million people, 80 percent of whom are Muslims.

Copyright © 2011 AFP. All rights reserved.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/af...ocId=CNG.ab5297e19a143caec7db73837a50a9be.791

 

[sidebanger]

And we have a very fine Catholic school system in Ontario

I went to a Catholic school. It was full of manipulative bullshit to scare the shit out of little kids and MAKE them good little Catholics. Disgusting, filthy and evil.
The point is...
We don't need religion. Morals come from people. So many religious leaders are immoral, coniving, evil human beings that the church is rotten to the core. Always has been. Read the histories of people claimed to be next to god. <shudder>
There are many beautiful, religious human beings.
Many good things have been done in the name of religion.
Those same good people and good deeds will be there without religion.
Religious beliefs have caused death and destruction.
I believe that religion causes much more harm than good in the world and that taking religion away will not diminish peoples desire to do good things.

 

[blackrock13]

I went to a Catholic school. It was full of manipulative bullshit to scare the shit out of little kids and MAKE them good little Catholics. Disgusting, filthy and evil.
The point is...
We don't need religion. Morals come from people. So many religious leaders are immoral, coniving, evil human beings that the church is rotten to the core. Always has been. Read the histories of people claimed to be next to god. <shudder>
There are many beautiful, religious human beings.
Many good things have been done in the name of religion.
Those same good people and good deeds will be there without religion.
Religious beliefs have caused death and destruction.
I believe that religion causes much more harm than good in the world and that taking religion away will not diminish peoples desire to do good things.

I'm going to take a stab here and say you didn't enjoy school.

Religion serves some people very well and gives a peace of mind for reasons I've outlined a few times before. Some of the kindest and most successful people I've met were quite religious, so don't try and paint it as an evil disease that need to be irradiated.

I'll bet for every historical event/person that showed religion in a evil light it wouldn't be hard to find similar events/people where it moved mountain and saved many.

 

[sidebanger]

I'm going to take a stab here and say you didn't enjoy school.

I was an 'A' student. I didn't enjoy the experience of being manipulated and frightened by religious nuts.

I've outlined a few times before. Some of the kindest and most successful people I've met were quite religious

So have I. You need to re-read my post. You appear to make automatic, inaccurate assumtions about me. Please stop. Thanks.