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Woman outraged after spotting confederate flag at Scarborough community festival

wilbur

Active member
Jan 19, 2004
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Context is everything.

First, as was pointed out be some before, that is not the Confederate Flag. It was the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, as well as the Battle Flag of the Confederate Navy.

The actual flag(s) of the Confederacy were pretty bland. Maybe that's why the Battle Flag grew later in popularity. However, a few State flags still contain elements of the old real Confederate flag... not to be confused with the so-called Rebel flag.


General Robert E. Lee was asked by President Lincoln to lead the Union Army. But he decided to lead the army of Virginia instead because he was more loyal to his home State than that of the United States; it had nothing to do with slavery. He made the Army of Virginia battle flag his own ensign. Doesn't mean that he was any more an oppressor than other notable people of his time.

As with other battle flags, it represents those soldiers who fought and died under it. So respect is desirable in that context.

Only 10% of Southerners owned slaves, while a lot of Northerners, including 12 US Presidents (including General Ulysses S. Grant) himself owned them. So why did so many fight for the Confederacy? Maybe for the Southernern way of life, or the affirmation of State's rights?.

As for the British, a lot of money from Britain went to fund the Confederacy, in the hopes that they would win, continue with slavery, making cotton from the South cheaper for the cotton and textile mills in England during the industrial revolution. This was a reason why there were calls for the victorious and huge Union Army to invade British North America in retaliation. The threat was very real, and this spurred the Canadian Confederation.

In the context of the 'General Lee' car, it is obviously associated with a popular TV show depticting stereotypical 'good old boys' that I never found racist. In this case, owning and displaying am accurate replica of the car is not inappropriate. The car represents the values of the show, and not the slavery practises of a now-defunct country.

However, there would be no legitimate reason for a Canadian or other foreigner for that matter, to display the Battle Flag;It would not be for the Confederate war dead, and not to remember the Souhern way of life, so it could only be in support of white supremacy. It's what white supremacists later adopted as a symbol of their beliefs. But association should not result in baning the flag, just because a goup happened to adopt it for their own motives.

The car is a replica of the one used in an old popular TV show. It is acceptable in context for that. This SJW business is going out of control. HOw far will this historical revisionism go? 12 US presidents owned slaves, including George Washington. Does this mean that they should eliminate any reminder of him, such as books, paintings or statue of him?
 

jrobertson1

Registered Pervert
Oct 8, 2010
813
16
18
I like it when these type of posts come up. Makes it easy to distinguish the vertebrates from the spineless.

People are offended over everything these days. It's a stupid flag, who gives a fuck.
Millions of people give a fuck. So much so that several state legislatures have removed it from their capitals and the City of New Orleans has removed 4 statues dedicated to racists (Lee, Beauregard, Jefferson Davis)

Why is it so important to you might be a better question.
Let's summarize:

-I post that I enjoy these type of posts because it's fun to watch the spineless get offended about something I don't give a fuck about. (I clearly state i dont care)
- You proceed to list reasons why I should give a fuck (essentially acknowledging that You know I don't care)
- after ending your social justice history lesson, you ask why I care so much (you apparently forget that I don't care, i.e. The reason for your reply).

Keep on fighting the good fight brother. You're killing it.
 

jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
24,673
6,836
113
Because you hate to see the peasants rise up against their repressive oligarchs? You are probably offended by Tommy Douglas T-shirts too as you make your way to the Doctor's office for your free checkup.
LoL!! Free check up? I pay for that "free" check up with half of my income, darling. And I hate Communists, as much as I hate Nazis, because of what they do, not what they preach. And unlike you, I had a chance to see, up close and personal, how it works. And it has nothing to do with poor peasants. Che was a red criminal and a terrorist who completely deserved that bullet.
 

derrick76

Well-known member
May 10, 2011
2,168
89
48
Toronto, ON
Derrick, lets please not jump all over, and now get into "Nazi" stuff.

With sticking to the topic, its just a car to me. While true, the battle flag can be used by pride groups or hate, the show or car never promoted hate in the least.

Is the woman justified in her outrage? I'm not to say. Obviously people 'trigger' off different things these days.

What I do know, if that Dukes were very successful for seven seasons, Hollywood made a move from the show, and the car continues to be enjoyed by Millions at countless events like Comic con and Dukefest.
So, over all that times, with the General Lee making appearances at many events in Canada for decades, we only now in 2017 see this make the news on CityTV because one person couldn't handle the car?

What I will agree with you, is she has the right to be offended, and share her position calmly. But doesn't have the right to resort to swearing and losing control.

On the flip side, that car and flag is liked by millions who neither see it as hate, or advocate any such messages of it themselves. They have the counter right to enjoy a car like that, or Dukes of Hazzard shirt without concerns of someone being confrontational with them over it.

As someone already pointed out, what about the Che Guevara shirts? I don't like communist in the least, and see those shirts all the time.
Even though I don't like them, I'm not offended, nor wish to approach someone, because I feel they have a right to wear and embrace whatever they want to.

I'm not being unsympathetic to her, as much as I'd say 'we all have a right'. Despite her not liking the car, or that flag, people have a right to like and embrace as they wish.

We're supposed to be a country of different views. One which we respect other people. So rather than being offended easily, people should work harder on having more tolerance for one another.
If that flag or car ended up being banned as 'hate', many would rejoice.

But doing so, just took something away from someone else. I'd urge to be carful of that slippery slope, because sooner or later, something might be banned that you or she considered to be pride or heritage, yet someone else saw as being negative or hatred.

Like I say, tolerance at all levels should be the goal, not banning or removing symbols or words.
Let's cut the BS. That symbol is one of hate and oppression. It is no different than the swastika. No amount of fancy speak and reasoning will change that. You keep on focusing on the car as a means to distract from the real issue.

That filth is rightfully banned.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
25,362
3,698
113
I would be offended by a Nazi flag on a soldier's grave too
To be fair, black people are really, really bothered by that Confederate flag.

So if it really irks them to death, lets just get rid of it, because its just a stupid flag, and nothing good can come of it
 

bigshot

Active member
Aug 16, 2003
1,364
20
38
I you ask me, she was far more disruptive to the event than the car. There was no need for swearing and losing control at a community event. If she was too overwhelmed, why not just leave?

The car is not a symbol of hate, and that flag should not be banned. You can't pretend history didn't happen by removing elements of it.

I loved watching the Dukes growing up, and that car was very popular at the Hamilton comic con. There was a huge enthusiastic line to get a photo with it, and John Schneider. Now because one person gets 'triggered', the event manager would perhaps stop that car from coming in. No regard for the people that loved the show, or the car.

Further, this was one car, at a random event. What about those people selling flags on city corners? I always see confederate flags among the ones on display, and it doesn't make the news. All it takes, is one complaint or meltdown.
Well said, Kathleen. I think you got it just right. I believe that most people would agree that the Confederate flag should not be flown as a symbol of pride and should not be used in any official capacity, but this was nothing more than a celebration of an old TV series that was very popular in it's day. If she lost her mind over something like this, she should have saved her energy to get involved in something truly useful where she might actually make a difference. She saw something that she did not like and made it all about her. It's not as though this was being used as a promotion for some white supremisist group, where her outrage would have been legitimate, and I doubt that anyone at this event who saw the car was motivated to engage in hate speech. Get over yourself...
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
71,276
70,755
113
Context is everything.

First, as was pointed out be some before, that is not the Confederate Flag. It was the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, as well as the Battle Flag of the Confederate Navy.

The actual flag(s) of the Confederacy were pretty bland. Maybe that's why the Battle Flag grew later in popularity. However, a few State flags still contain elements of the old real Confederate flag... not to be confused with the so-called Rebel flag.


General Robert E. Lee was asked by President Lincoln to lead the Union Army. But he decided to lead the army of Virginia instead because he was more loyal to his home State than that of the United States; it had nothing to do with slavery. He made the Army of Virginia battle flag his own ensign. Doesn't mean that he was any more an oppressor than other notable people of his time.

As with other battle flags, it represents those soldiers who fought and died under it. So respect is desirable in that context.

Only 10% of Southerners owned slaves, while a lot of Northerners, including 12 US Presidents (including General Ulysses S. Grant) himself owned them. So why did so many fight for the Confederacy? Maybe for the Southernern way of life, or the affirmation of State's rights?.

As for the British, a lot of money from Britain went to fund the Confederacy, in the hopes that they would win, continue with slavery, making cotton from the South cheaper for the cotton and textile mills in England during the industrial revolution. This was a reason why there were calls for the victorious and huge Union Army to invade British North America in retaliation. The threat was very real, and this spurred the Canadian Confederation.

In the context of the 'General Lee' car, it is obviously associated with a popular TV show depticting stereotypical 'good old boys' that I never found racist. In this case, owning and displaying am accurate replica of the car is not inappropriate. The car represents the values of the show, and not the slavery practises of a now-defunct country.

However, there would be no legitimate reason for a Canadian or other foreigner for that matter, to display the Battle Flag;It would not be for the Confederate war dead, and not to remember the Souhern way of life, so it could only be in support of white supremacy. It's what white supremacists later adopted as a symbol of their beliefs. But association should not result in baning the flag, just because a goup happened to adopt it for their own motives.

The car is a replica of the one used in an old popular TV show. It is acceptable in context for that. This SJW business is going out of control. HOw far will this historical revisionism go? 12 US presidents owned slaves, including George Washington. Does this mean that they should eliminate any reminder of him, such as books, paintings or statue of him?
There are layers and layers of meaning wrapped up in that flag. The Confederacy was a bad cause. But the USA was thoroughly racist up until the 1980's and overlooked the evil of the cause and cast a romantic light over it. You ever see that prime example of Hollywoood costume shlock "Gone with the Wind"? Highest grossing movie up to the 1970's IIRC.

So we're stuck with the dawning acceptance that maybe the Confederacy wasn't a particularly good choice for the South on any level and the flag is offensive to many. But we also have the romantic image of the flag as the historical symbol of the "distinctness" of the South and its past glory.

Now you and I may think the Southern Whites should get tf over it and fixate on some other part of their history. But try telling that to Jefferson Beauregard Sessions or Jeb Bush or the hundreds of thousands of other Southern Whites who relate to and are named after Civil War heroes. When Oagre's sister lived (miserably) in the South for a couple of years, ALL the White kids went to a private school called "Jeff Davis Academy" - yup! - and ALL the Black kids went to the public high school. The Black kids learned about how bad slavery was. The White kids learned how brave their forebears had been at Gettysburg.

You ever watch Ken Burns "The Civil War" and remember Shelby Foote's monologue about how every Southern boy dreams once in a while of being in the front lines at Pickett's Charge and actually - in his imagination - beating the Yanks and winning Southern independence? Of course, Shelby left out the important fact that Southern Black kids don't live the same fantasy as Southern White kids. I don't think Shelby gets that part of the equation.

Now you try unravelling THAT MESS in a couple of years!!
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
53,773
3
0
Very good points Oagre.

Further to which, while it is not right around the corner- about 7 1/2 hours from Toronto, but if you want to truly bake your brains in summer heat and get a very interesting perspective on it all, some year attend the Gettysburg Reenactment. http://www.gettysburgreenactment.com/

Particularly mingle with people from North Carolina who have come to see the "high water mark," and then go mingle with people from Maine who have come to see Little Round Top.

Get the U.S. National Park Rangers to explain how much blood it took to turn descriptive phrases into proper names: "The Wheatfield," "The Peach Orchard."
 

doggee_01

Active member
Jul 11, 2003
8,353
1
36
Then why do many Southern Whites fly the Confederate flag from their houses? Why do many Southern Whites have the names of Civil War heroes? And why do many Southern Whites fantasize about reliving the Civil War?

The Confederacy may not carry any positive emotional weight in Toronto; but in South Carolina or Georgia, it's still pretty potent.
yep... i lived ther for a while and for a lot of people in the south the war is not over just on hold.... i kid you not!
 

TeeJay

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
8,052
731
113
west gta
I've seen it on people's trucks and porches in Ontario that it wrong
Wait why is it wrong? Free speech and all

Should we ban any flags that offend us; does a Korean or Viet or Jap war vet have the right to ban their flags?

If the writers of the show admitted that it was a show about the "south shall rise again" then you have a point but that show was about stunt driving and daisy dukes.
Not alot of Dukes fans in this thread (maybe all too young)
The General Lee was based off of Traveller before they changed it
 

TeeJay

Well-known member
Jun 20, 2011
8,052
731
113
west gta
If I'm going to buy a delorean because I'm a fan of Back to the Future. I would spend money and make it look like it has a flux capacitor. If this guy wants it to look like the car in Duke's...why not?
And if a crazy church lady complained about your car on tv?

Actually true story
Disney PASSED on Back to the Future because they thought it was offensive and noone would like it


Why?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
*spoiler*

It features incest (Marty & his mom)
 

frankcastle

Well-known member
Feb 4, 2003
17,887
242
63
Wait why is it wrong? Free speech and all

Should we ban any flags that offend us; does a Korean or Viet or Jap war vet have the right to ban their flags?



Not alot of Dukes fans in this thread (maybe all too young)
The General Lee was based off of Traveller before they changed it
Free speech has it's limits. While I feel it is wrong I never said those people should be forced to take it down.
 

wigglee

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2010
9,830
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LoL!! Free check up? I pay for that "free" check up with half of my income, darling. And I hate Communists, as much as I hate Nazis, because of what they do, not what they preach. And unlike you, I had a chance to see, up close and personal, how it works. And it has nothing to do with poor peasants. Che was a red criminal and a terrorist who completely deserved that bullet.
Socialism = sharing ....... but you hate it and wish death upon its' proponents? Jesus was a commie.
 

jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
24,673
6,836
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Socialism = sharing ....... but you hate it and wish death upon its' proponents? Jesus was a commie.
Socialism=sharing... misery. Che, the incompetent terrorist that he was, got off lightly. You right, though, I wish cancer, pox and clap upon them all. And a slow death.
 

canada-man

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2007
31,268
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Toronto, Ontario
canadianmale.wordpress.com

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
59,953
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To be fair, black people are really, really bothered by that Confederate flag.

So if it really irks them to death, lets just get rid of it, because its just a stupid flag, and nothing good can come of it
Or at least banish it to museums and history textbooks so people can learn how a flag became a symbol for bigotry.
 
Ashley Madison
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