Woman outraged after spotting confederate flag at Scarborough community festival

[explorerzip]

I you ask me, she was far more disruptive to the event than the car. There was no need for swearing and losing control at a community event. If she was too overwhelmed, why not just leave?

The car is not a symbol of hate, and that flag should not be banned. You can't pretend history didn't happen by removing elements of it.

I loved watching the Dukes growing up, and that car was very popular at the Hamilton comic con. There was a huge enthusiastic line to get a photo with it, and John Schneider. Now because one person gets 'triggered', the event manager would perhaps stop that car from coming in. No regard for the people that loved the show, or the car.

Further, this was one car, at a random event. What about those people selling flags on city corners? I always see confederate flags among the ones on display, and it doesn't make the news. All it takes, is one complaint or meltdown.

Sadly, people cannot help themselves but to confront other people. Walking away is just too simple.

 

[jrobertson1]

I like it when these type of posts come up. Makes it easy to distinguish the vertebrates from the spineless.

People are offended over everything these days. It's a stupid flag, who gives a fuck.

 

[explorerzip]

Context? What more context do you need than what this flag stands for? Sure, it's just painted on a car, but it offends millions of people and I get that. Would it not be so hard to just strip the paint off the roof of that car and paint the whole damn thing orange?

This flag is just not the paint job on the roof of a car from a hoaky 80's TV show. It is not an innocent symbol. This flag has nothing to do with the celebration of a heritage, unless you mean a sanitized history of a heritage that celebrates enslavement and fear. Which is everything it stands for. Today, this flag is used by pure evil racists (witness Dylan Roof) to send a very powerful message to people of colour. And that message is very simple, I will remind you of your place in history. The history of this flag is an affront to all decent people everywhere. The Confederacy was on the wrong side of history. Full stop. The Civil War was all about preserving slavery. Full stop. The wounds of the Civil War run deep and they cross international borders right here into Canada. (Even if Canada never allowed slavery.)

One section of our country believes slavery is right and ought to be extended, while the other believes it is wrong and ought not to be extended. This is the only substantial dispute.

Abraham Lincoln in his inaugural speech of 1860 prior to the outbreak of the Civil War.

Based on your logic, shall we remove anything deemed offensive housed in a museum? How about symbols of war? In Ottawa's Air and Space Museum, there are plenty of Nazi, Soviet and American origin warplanes that are equally not "innocent" symbols. How about the HMCS Haida destroyer in Hamilton? My point is there are huge laundry list of things that any one person can take offence too. So where shall we draw the line?

BTW the point of having the car painted in that way is to pay homage to the TV show. We cannot (and should not) conclude that the owner of the car has any ill intentions, is or is not racist, based solely on how he painted the car.

 

[explorerzip]

Some people just need a slap upside the head now and then. The fact they are continually offended offends me.

Being offended is one thing, but this woman took it to a whole new level. She insisted to lecture another person and tried unsuccessfully to educate the car's owner. Funny since she said she wasn't there to educate other people.

 

[Galseigin]

Looks like most blacks are not offended by the flag.....but still...if its offensive to many...I think the lady with the car overdid it..

The Confederate flag is a controversial symbol for many Americans today. A 2011 Pew Research Center poll revealed that 30% of Americans had a "negative reaction" when "they s[aw] the Confederate flag displayed."[23] According to the same poll, 9% of Americans had a positive reaction. A majority (58%) had no reaction. Among black Americans, 41% had a negative reaction, 10% had a positive reaction and 45% had no reaction. A similar poll taken in 2015 revealed little change from 2011.[24]

In an October 2013 YouGov poll, a plurality (38%) of those polled disapproved of displaying the flag in public places.[25] In the same poll, a plurality (44%) of those asked viewed the flag as a symbol of racism, with 24% viewing it as exclusively racist and 20% viewing it as both racist and symbolic of pride in the region.[25]

In a national survey in 2015 across all races, 57% of Americans had the opinion that the Confederate flag represented Southern pride rather than racism. A similar poll in 2000 had a nearly identical result of 59%. However, poll results from only the South yielded a completely different result. 75% of Southern whites described the flag as a symbol of pride, while 75% of Southern blacks said the flag represented racism.[26]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_display_of_the_Confederate_flag

 

[AJstar]

The Japanese killed millions in WWII.
Should we ban all references to the Rising Sun flag.
The Germans killed millions in WWII as well ,so the swastika has to go in all museums,tv shows,movies etc.
Actually any peoples that killed other groups,races,etc & had a flag should also be banned.
I'm not sure there would be many countries exempted, but surely someone will be offended.
Or just maybe we can learn the truth from history and use those symbols to remember the evil to try to help the world not to repeat it.
Forget history at your own peril.

 

[managee]

Based on your logic, shall we remove anything deemed offensive housed in a museum? How about symbols of war? In Ottawa's Air and Space Museum, there are plenty of Nazi, Soviet and American origin warplanes that are equally not "innocent" symbols. How about the HMCS Haida destroyer in Hamilton? My point is there are huge laundry list of things that any one person can take offence too. So where shall we draw the line?

BTW the point of having the car painted in that way is to pay homage to the TV show. We cannot (and should not) conclude that the owner of the car has any ill intentions, is or is not racist, based solely on how he painted the car.

A large swastika painted on the top of your car is very different than a Nazi flag in a war museum. But maybe that's just me. I feel you're being facetious.

Hogan's Heroes was a great show as well. No matter how much it means to me, I recognize that going out for Halloween as Col. Klink is insensitive.

We can absolutely conclude the owner of the car is insensitive, and regardless of their intention in displaying the flag, there is a distinct impact that can't be impossible for people here to completely ignore let alone comprehend.

The General Lee is easily recognized by you and I. It's orange and loud AF. It's probably named after a Confederate General (don't recall any politics at all coming up in the series, but the boys seemed conservative to me). It has a Confederate flag covering its roof...

It holds cultural significance to a wide cultural group. It's iconic. It represents something's greater than itself. It's undeniably a quintessential (pop) cultural icon, in particular to those who grew up with it as it aired or as reruns.

If you just see a car, or even a car with a Confederate flag on top, you don't get it. You, explorezip, CLEARLY get it.

The Confederate flag has similar characteristics as a cultural icon. It represents something greater than itself. It's iconic.

If you look at it and just see a flag, or the roof artwork on the General Lee, you DO NOT get it. Plain and simple.

Slavery isn't cool. Icons of slavery aren't cool.

Even if it's a replica of a television icon, that itself contained an icon of slavery.

If you think it's the 'problem' of the offended, you are a bad person.

 

[versitile1]

Do Caucasian people find this offensive? If so, why?

 

[explorerzip]

A large swastika painted on the top of your car is very different than a Nazi flag in a war museum. But maybe that's just me. I feel you're being facetious.

We can absolutely conclude the owner of the car is insensitive, and regardless of their intention in displaying the flag, there is a distinct impact that can't be impossible for people here to completely ignore let alone comprehend.

The General Lee is easily recognized by you and I. It holds cultural significance to a wide cultural group. It's iconic. It represents something's greater than itself. It's (probably) named after a Confederate Army General. It has a large Confederate flag on its roof. It's undeniably a quintessential cultural icon, as it represents something greater than itself, in particular to those who grew up with it as it aired or as reruns.

If you just see a car, or even a car with a Confederate flag on top, you don't get it. You CLEARLY get it.

The Confederate flag has similar characteristics as a cultural icon. It represents something greater than itself. It's iconic.

If you look at it and just see a flag, you don't get it. Plain and simple.

Slavery isn't cool. Icons of slavery aren't cool.

Even if it's a replica of a television icon, that itself contained an icon of slavery.

If you think it's the 'problem' of the offended, you are a bad person.

We cannot judge a person's character i.e. if they are being insensitive based off a few seconds of video. Who knows what transpired just before and after that incident. The only thing we can conclude from the video is that both parties could have dealt with each other a lot better. We can disagree with other people and still remain civil. This was yet another case of people trying to talk over each other and make a stupid point so they could feel superior.

My earlier point was that there are an endless list of symbols including cars, planes, flags, movies, books, etc. that someone can find offensive. So if this particular car is offensive then by extension the tools of war are even more offensive. Millions of people have been killed with these tools of war in the name of the Union Jack, Star Spangled Banner, etc. Should we close down the museum because they might be offensive or trigger anxiety in someone? How about cancelling the air show or not allowing the display of military vehicles in public for the fear of offending someone? Maybe I am being flippant here, but this is a very slippery slope where there could be a never ending list of things that could offend someone.

The only 'problem' I think both parties have is getting upset over a very trivial matter. This incident could have easily ended up with someone in the hospital. At the end of the day, we all have a choice to be offended or not, to walk away or not. She choose to be offended and was looking to "fight" with another person.

 

[fuji]

I you ask me, she was far more disruptive to the event than the car. There was no need for swearing and losing control at a community event. If she was too overwhelmed, why not just leave?

The car is not a symbol of hate, and that flag should not be banned. You can't pretend history didn't happen by removing elements of it.

I loved watching the Dukes growing up, and that car was very popular at the Hamilton comic con. There was a huge enthusiastic line to get a photo with it, and John Schneider. Now because one person gets 'triggered', the event manager would perhaps stop that car from coming in. No regard for the people that loved the show, or the car.

Further, this was one car, at a random event. What about those people selling flags on city corners? I always see confederate flags among the ones on display, and it doesn't make the news. All it takes, is one complaint or meltdown.

She had as much right to protest against that sickening glad as the racist had to display it. That's the deal with free speech: we tolerate racists expression of free speech but they need to tolerate being denounced.

 

[managee]

We cannot judge a person's character i.e. if they are being insensitive based off a few seconds of video. Who knows what transpired just before and after that incident.

I think you're right on the incomplete footage, and the fact that she shot the video tells me she wasn't looking for dialogue when she approached the owner. I've got no love for her...

But the owner chose to buy the car as it was shown in the video or refinished it to look the way it does. It didn't seem like it was the first time he had ever considered what the flag might represent to some, based on his responses.

Just my interpretation.

You seem like a reasonable person, so hypothetically speaking, if you owned that car, would you drive it to a Scarborough community festival?

My earlier point was that there are an endless list of symbols including cars, planes, flags, movies, books, etc. that someone can find offensive. So if this particular car is offensive then by extension the tools of war are even more offensive. Millions of people have been killed with these tools of war in the name of the Union Jack, Star Spangled Banner, etc.

Yea I've been wondering this myself. In-particular about the flags. Colonialism and imperialism, can't really be separated from the flags, even if what they've come to represent in our country today is different from what they represented at the height of each nation's power.

History does love a winner.

The only 'problem' I think both parties have is getting upset over a very trivial matter. This incident could have easily ended up with someone in the hospital. At the end of the day, we all have a choice to be offended or not, to walk away or not. She choose to be offended and was looking to "fight" with another person.

Absolutely.

I want to believe with a different overall approach, she could have made a positive social impact.

She chose aggression, which rarely makes me change my mind either.

 

[wigglee]

That car is a piece of pop culture history NOT a statement of support of the south and slavery.

That car was at a car show.

Much like if you went to a US museum of American History having a confederate flag would not be out of place.

Context is key.

In the current social climate, saying that is like claiming the swastika is an ancient religious symbol

 

[italianguy74]

She had as much right to protest against that sickening glad as the racist had to display it. That's the deal with free speech: we tolerate racists expression of free speech but they need to tolerate being denounced.

No exceptions either isn't that right? Unless its islam then slavery is ok and to denounce it would clearly be islamophobic. Maybe if the south had a slogan like "be kind to your slaves" they would get a free pass like the holy books do.

 

[jcpro]

I'm often outraged when I see people wear Che shirts. And I DO have a good cause for the outrage. Yet, I would never dream to try to banish such shirts. And that makes me feel really good. About myself.

 

[Butler1000]

Do Caucasian people find this offensive? If so, why?

Meh. I'm amused and have a sense of humor. There are tons of of things like that. Are Swedish people offended by the Swedish Chef? Carlton when he does his dance? Any number of Comedienne when they imitate white people. Nope we pay good money to go laugh at ourselves. Or don't but let others.

 

[james t kirk]

The General Lee is a car, nothing more or nothing less. People need to stop interrupting thing as bad.

I do not support the confederation flag, the flag on the car has no meaning.

We have become a society of wimps and babies. Everything offends us, our feelings are hurt. 18yr olds went to war to give us the freedom we have today, they didn't get offended by remarks or pictures. Social media is creating this culture.

Some people need to suck it up !

What next, the Daisy Duke short will be banned as well ???

It's a car sporting the confederate battle flag which is viewed by millions of people as offensive because it represents slavery, death and torture to them. I get it. Being a slave meant living your life with no rights as simple property. Living your life in fear. You obviously cannot relate, you can't even empathize since you or your family members have never been in that situation. Slavery as a legal institution in the United States only ended in 1865 when the south lost. The confederacy lost their war to protect slavery. Slavery was wrong. Always has been wrong, and always will be wrong. This flag is reminder to millions of black people in the United States that their ancestors were all slaves simply by virtue of the colour of their skin. They find it offensive and I understand why and I don't think it too much to relegate this symbol of hatred to a museum, not out in public.

So call me a wimp or a baby. If that makes you happy, or helps you to justify your take on life, then knock yourself out.

 

[james t kirk]

I like it when these type of posts come up. Makes it easy to distinguish the vertebrates from the spineless.

People are offended over everything these days. It's a stupid flag, who gives a fuck.

Millions of people give a fuck. So much so that several state legislatures have removed it from their capitals and the City of New Orleans has removed 4 statues dedicated to racists (Lee, Beauregard, Jefferson Davis)

Why is it so important to you might be a better question.

 

[james t kirk]

Based on your logic, shall we remove anything deemed offensive housed in a museum? How about symbols of war? In Ottawa's Air and Space Museum, there are plenty of Nazi, Soviet and American origin warplanes that are equally not "innocent" symbols. How about the HMCS Haida destroyer in Hamilton? My point is there are huge laundry list of things that any one person can take offence too. So where shall we draw the line?

BTW the point of having the car painted in that way is to pay homage to the TV show. We cannot (and should not) conclude that the owner of the car has any ill intentions, is or is not racist, based solely on how he painted the car.

Everyone of your examples above is what's known as a false equivalency. None of them are symbols of slavery and none of them are offensive to millions of people. And it's not a question of "any one person", its a question of millions of people and what that flag represents. Your examples just are not the same thing.

I'm not saying that the owner of that car is a racist. I'm saying he's inconsiderate. (As an aside, I don't think that car is the original "General Lee" from the Dukes of Hazard TV show. I think it's just a similar car that some guy painted up in the same way. BTW, being a dyed in the wool car guy myself, I cannot fathom ruining a car like that with a paint job like that. It didn't come from the factory like that, it's a sin.)

Times change. What was socially acceptable 100 years ago (confederate flags and putting up statues of Nathan Bedford Forrest, or Robert E Lee or Jeff Davis) are no longer acceptable.

White supremacy and slavery and the history that goes with it cannot be discounted as merely "suck it up cry baby".

 

[james t kirk]

I'm often outraged when I see people wear Che shirts. And I DO have a good cause for the outrage. .

Ditto that.

Kids wear Che shirts because they like the photo and they think it's cool. They don't know anything about what a criminal individual he was.

But Che was only a moment in history and he was not the institution of slavery. Lenin or Stalin might be better examples and I've never seen either of them on a T shirt. Or I'd be really offended and probably would say something.

 

[Aardvark154]

Do Caucasian people find this offensive? If so, why?

We've run this through in the past is the following offensive?