Woman outraged after spotting confederate flag at Scarborough community festival

[Occasionally]

Is that not exposing the hatred?

And showing an hateful regime for what they are (even if it's for financial gain) is a heck of a lot different from driving around (ignorantly?) celebrating the use of a symbol associated with hate.

There is zero educational value in that. As I said, that's no different than a nature show where a narrator says two animals are born and bred enemies. That's the extent of his education. Then the next 20 minutes is a camera man showing them piling on top of one another trying to rip each other new assholes.

As Oagre said in the last page, educational value of nazism is basically zero as the interest is low, and there's few people who could even bother communicating what nazism was all about..... that's why it's come down to entertainment...... mean Germans with swastikas kicking ass with no real context.

And this seems allowed in mainstream media despite it being entertainment.

 

[SuperCharge]

what country are you living in where you think that there is a "substantial" dispute between one section of the country thinking slavery is "right" and "ought to be extended"? i can guarantee you that is NOT a dialogue that is AT ALL in issue today. the fact that basically everyone unequivocally can agree that slavery is fucked up and should not exist is what makes this woman's reaction absolutely ridiculous. intention is everything, and there is no way in hell the guy with the car actually intended to promote ideas justifying slavery. sensitive, whiny, keyboard warriors always have to a) disingenuously ignore intent and context, and b) completely over-exaggerate actual racism/sexism/whatever-ism in society to get anywhere with their arguments these days. and it's not very far.

What a turn-on to see a beautiful lady with intelligence.

 

[managee]

If you're just joining us, to catch you up:

"You're too sensitive. People like you are stupid and don't get it."

"You're not sensitive enough. People like you are stupid and don't get it."

:deadhorse:

 

[bigshot]

What a turn-on to see a beautiful lady with intelligence.

+++1

 

[james t kirk]

what country are you living in where you think that there is a "substantial" dispute between one section of the country thinking slavery is "right" and "ought to be extended"? i can guarantee you that is NOT a dialogue that is AT ALL in issue today. the fact that basically everyone unequivocally can agree that slavery is fucked up and should not exist is what makes this woman's reaction absolutely ridiculous. intention is everything, and there is no way in hell the guy with the car actually intended to promote ideas justifying slavery. sensitive, whiny, keyboard warriors always have to a) disingenuously ignore intent and context, and b) completely over-exaggerate actual racism/sexism/whatever-ism in society to get anywhere with their arguments these days. and it's not very far.

What the fuck are you talking about.

The quote I used, in bold Italics none the less was from ABRAHAM LINCOLN's inaugural speech in the year 1860. (See the credit just below the quote.)

If you read the paragraph above the quote from Lincoln, my position or point is that the American Civil War was entirely about slavery. Abraham Lincoln and the northern states wanted to end slavery and the south under Jefferson Davis wanted to not only maintain it, but to expand it. HENCE THE QUOTE BY ABRAHAM LINCOLN. (Who was the president of the Union from 1860 to 1865 when he was assassinated by John Wilkes Booth.) The reason I quoted that was because often times today, confederate apologists will say that the Civil War was NOT about slavery, that it was about "states rights" which I feel is entirely bullshit and they say these things to sanitize the history of the south and the confederacy. I used a quote from Lincoln's inaugural address because HE WAS THERE AT THE TIME AND HE WAS POTUS and a great man who freed the slaves. This is a quote that proves exactly what the Civil War was all about. (The slave states (the south) wanted slavery to be expanded as new states were added to the union (i.e. the United States). Southern slave states feared that if new states to the west were added that did not allow, or could not allow, slavery that slavery would eventually be ended in congress as there would be more nonslave states than slave states. This is what lead to the slave states succeeding from the Union. (i.e. the United States of America.)

My position is that the confederate flag is an offensive symbol that should not be displayed in public, even on the roof of a car from some crappy early 80's TV show.

 

[basketcase]

There is zero educational value in that. ....

Can you find anyone in the West who doesn't associate Nazi flags with hatred? Seems the decades of movies have done a good job of reminding people.

The flag on the General Lee on the other as a celebration of "Southern Rights" in a 70's TV show might have been acceptable but it isn't today.

 

[basketcase]

What the fuck are you talking about.

LOL

The quote I used, in bold Italics none the less was from ABRAHAM LINCOLN's inaugural speech in the year 1860. ....

Right. What would he know about the civil war!!!

 

[FAST]

that's another great point. the kind of thing people choose to get offended about these days is so trivial that we have completely lost sight of the real issues. the only reason people freak out over menial shit like this is because it's a very easy, very VISIBLE, black-and-white way to align yourself with "good" while denouncing "evil", while completely ignoring all the nuance in between. why put in all the effort actually involved in addressing REAL issues of oppression actually affecting minorities today, like the prison industrial complex, or poverty, or homelessness, when you can just lose your shit in public at a car show over something as trivial as this? where you know or should have known that the person offending you probably didn't even mean to offend you, and probably won't see your barrage coming, therefore making them easy targets?

Probably the best post on this thread,...and as another member stated,...a beauty as well.

 

[james t kirk]

Confederate apologists today will often say that the Civil War was about "State's Rights" to which I will respond, "sure, if you mean the right to own slaves"

People today don't want to have their heroes painted as fighting a war over slavery.

But the Civil War was entirely about slavery.

One need only read the various declarations of succession by the southern states that went on to form the Confederacy and half them specifically ramble on about preserving the institution of slavery as the reason for succession. But no-one likes to think about that.

And the confederate flag was the flag of the confederacy and the confederacy fought a war to maintain and even expand slavery. So I completely understand why millions of people (including myself) find the confederate flag offensive and worthy of banning.

 

[james t kirk]

To those who think that displaying the Confederate Flag is no big deal and this woman has a problem, (and to everyone else for that matter)

Play this video by New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu.

It's one of the most eloquent speeches I've every listened to in my life. Mitch comes from a long line of southern democratic families and his name is being mentioned as a candidate for 2020 even as a result of the actions that he and New Orleans have taken.

In this speech, Landrieu speaks to the extremely controversial measure that the City of New Orleans recently took to remove 4 statues or monuments to the Confederacy. Specifically, statues of the Confederate War heroes and known racists - General Robert E Lee, PT Beauregarde, Jefferson Davis.

The man is a wordsmith.

Here is the clip. The reasoning behind removing those statues and why they were so offensive to so many is exactly the same as to the reasoning for removing the confederate flag. (And the dumbass in the car is a fool for not knowing better.)

 

[wigglee]

what country are you living in where you think that there is a "substantial" dispute between one section of the country thinking slavery is "right" and "ought to be extended"? i can guarantee you that is NOT a dialogue that is AT ALL in issue today. the fact that basically everyone unequivocally can agree that slavery is fucked up and should not exist is what makes this woman's reaction absolutely ridiculous. intention is everything, and there is no way in hell the guy with the car actually intended to promote ideas justifying slavery. sensitive, whiny, keyboard warriors always have to a) disingenuously ignore intent and context, and b) completely over-exaggerate actual racism/sexism/whatever-ism in society to get anywhere with their arguments these days. and it's not very far.

Take a look at the KKK members in Trump's cabinet. Segregation, hate-filled racism and discrimination are alive and well today, and proponents of all three tend to love the Confederate flag.... coincidence? I think not.

 

[GPIDEAL]

What the fuck are you talking about.

The quote I used, in bold Italics none the less was from ABRAHAM LINCOLN's inaugural speech in the year 1860. (See the credit just below the quote.)

If you read the paragraph above the quote from Lincoln, my position or point is that the American Civil War was entirely about slavery. Abraham Lincoln and the northern states wanted to end slavery and the south under Jefferson Davis wanted to not only maintain it, but to expand it. HENCE THE QUOTE BY ABRAHAM LINCOLN. (Who was the president of the Union from 1860 to 1865 when he was assassinated by John Wilkes Booth.) The reason I quoted that was because often times today, confederate apologists will say that the Civil War was NOT about slavery, that it was about "states rights" which I feel is entirely bullshit and they say these things to sanitize the history of the south and the confederacy. I used a quote from Lincoln's inaugural address because HE WAS THERE AT THE TIME AND HE WAS POTUS and a great man who freed the slaves. This is a quote that proves exactly what the Civil War was all about. (The slave states (the south) wanted slavery to be expanded as new states were added to the union (i.e. the United States). Southern slave states feared that if new states to the west were added that did not allow, or could not allow, slavery that slavery would eventually be ended in congress as there would be more nonslave states than slave states. This is what lead to the slave states succeeding from the Union. (i.e. the United States of America.)

My position is that the confederate flag is an offensive symbol that should not be displayed in public, even on the roof of a car from some crappy early 80's TV show.

Just jumping back in James.

I could swear that in the film epic, Lincoln, he (Abraham Lincoln character) said that the Civil War was not primarily about slavery but keeping the Union together. Of course slavery was an issue, but not the 1st one (according to that great film starring DDL).

 

[GPIDEAL]

can you find anyone in the west who doesn't associate nazi flags with hatred? Seems the decades of movies have done a good job of reminding people.

the flag on the general lee on the other as a celebration of "southern rights" in a 70's tv show might have been acceptable but it isn't today.

bingo!

 

[GPIDEAL]

To those who think that displaying the Confederate Flag is no big deal and this woman has a problem, (and to everyone else for that matter)

Play this video by New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu.

It's one of the most eloquent speeches I've every listened to in my life. Mitch comes from a long line of southern democratic families and his name is being mentioned as a candidate for 2020 even as a result of the actions that he and New Orleans have taken.

In this speech, Landrieu speaks to the extremely controversial measure that the City of New Orleans recently took to remove 4 statues or monuments to the Confederacy. Specifically, statues of the Confederate War heroes and known racists - General Robert E Lee, PT Beauregarde, Jefferson Davis.

The man is a wordsmith.

Here is the clip. The reasoning behind removing those statues and why they were so offensive to so many is exactly the same as to the reasoning for removing the confederate flag. (And the dumbass in the car is a fool for not knowing better.)

Indeed a brilliant speech James. Thanks for sharing.

"There's a difference between remembrance and reverence"

"This is not about changing statues but behaviour and attitude"

Awesome.

(Also like his praise of JFK)

 

[GPIDEAL]

So for the rebel or nazi symbols, it's ok to show them in movies, books/magazines, art, any tv show showing old footage, and museums. But a guy drives a Dukes of Hazzard car with zero intent on insulting people is a no-no.

Doesn't compute.

Intent doesn't matter in public. Ignorance is bliss. But then the owner tries to defend General Lee, which was then offensive and stupid to do.

I found this article and I guess it reinforces James T. Kirk's argument that the Civil War was indeed about slavery.

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/06/robert_e_lee_owned_slaves_and.html

 

[GPIDEAL]

Oh, please! The history has passed its judgement on the likes of Che and the ideology they served. Some people just never learn.

"Viva La Revolucion" is a tongue-in-cheek statement.

I'm no lover of Castro the Dictator or Communism, but Che was not a dictator, more a revolutionary. Indeed he took a hard line at the oppressive Batista regime and those that defended it, but violence was his only way to stop the oppression (Cuba was backed by exploitative and corrupt corporate interests and organized crime, also protected by the CIA without regard to the welfare of the people). Like the historian above says, there's no evidence he killed ordinary people or innocents. Che even addressed the United Nations. How many cold-blooded killers do that?

Lastly, when you say "history has passed its judgement on the likes of Che", just remember this great quote, "History is written by the victors". (You probably believe that the "Communist Nut" Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated President Kennedy all by his lonesome).

 

[GPIDEAL]

If our members who are big fans of Che and supported Castro and his revolution, perhaps they could explain why 60 years after the revolution, the Cuban people continue to live in poverty, and are persecuted if they advocate for a more liberal society with real democratic elections. Not to mention the number of Cubans who have fled this socialist paradise. After all this time, it's clear to anyone with a critical mind that the revolution replaced one dictator with another and the people are no better off than they were in 1959...

There's no argument about that with respect to the totalitarian Castro regime, but Che was a revolutionary who believed in what he preached, and was prepared to use violence to fight oppressive regimes. Batista was a U.S.-backed dictator FFS! So I don't think we can judge Che who was executed at an early age by the CIA-backed Bolivian military.

 

[canada-man]

http://www.heritage.org/political-process/commentary/el-che-the-crass-marketing-sadistic-racist

Che the marketing of a sadistic racist

Hatred is the central element of our struggle! Hatred that is intransigent...hatred so violent that it propels a human being beyond his natural limitations, making him violent and cold- blooded killing machine...We reject any peaceful approach. Violence is inevitable. To establish Socialism rivers of blood must flow! The imperialist enemy must feel like a hunted animal wherever he moves. Thus we'll destroy him! These hyenas are fit only for extermination. We must keep our hatred alive and fan it to paroxysm! The victory of Socialism is well worth millions of atomic victims!

 

[GPIDEAL]

http://www.heritage.org/political-process/commentary/el-che-the-crass-marketing-sadistic-racist

Che the marketing of a sadistic racist

This was just propaganda to pump up his guerrilla warriors to fight oppressive regimes (no different than a boot camp sergeant drilling into his trainees that they must learn to hate Nazis or Japanese or Commies and kill them, etc. etc.)

Notice he says Socialism and not Communism.

Back in those days of the Cold War, this was not as crazy as we think now.

 

[FAST]

There are many images today that are offensive.


I find the sight of a women completely covered in black cloth that appears to be a tent, with only a slit for her eyes,... extremely offensive,...as for the oppression it stands for.