Zionism's Downward Spiral Continues: Now a Loyalty Oath for "Non-Jews"

[basketcase]

I love how flub thinks that Jews in Iran being able to elect 1/290 parliamentarians is better than the full legal equality without limits in Israel where any Muslim can run for any office they want, be a member of any political party, be judges, run their own schools, etc. etc. Even though Iran has no Jewish Cabinet ministers, it must be better than Israel where Arabs have repeatedly held high positions in the government, even Deputy Prime Minister.

I guess Iran paying lip service to democracy (while still being run by a religious body) is better than the full and open democracy in Israel (not to mention lesser rights for women and religious minorities and death for homosexuality).

I am sure in flub's mind Iran is a paradise and anything would be better than Israel.

 

[fuji]

Your lack of knowledge regarding these issues continues to lower the quality of exchanges. Palestinians make up 20% of the population of Israel but have barely more than 10% of the seats in the Knesset. In other words, they are under represented.

Jews in Iran number less than 40,000 in a country of 75 million. A fraction of a fraction of 1%. What you call a token is in fact a positive gesture of inclusion that would be unimaginable in Israel.

Nevertheless it's illegal for a Jew to run for any other seat in Iran, whereas it's not illegal for Arabs to run for seats in Israel. The reason why you get 20% of the vote leading to 10% of the seats is the same as the reason why that happens to the NDP in Canada: The popular vote is distributed around and not a majority in any one riding.

 

[fuji]

Jews and Muslem are accorded the same rights under the Iranian constitution.
That's more equal now then Israel.

False.

 

[fuji]

I'll just go and quote a little wiki for your edutainment.

In other words you'll ignore the facts that mervyn provided you and continue to live in your fucked up imaginary world.

 

[flubadub]

In other words you'll ignore the facts that mervyn provided you and continue to live in your fucked up imaginary world.

What facts?
Wikipedia is a fucked up imaginary world?

I'm not saying your rights are not screwed in Iran if your gay or a political activist, only that according to the constitution Muslem have equal rights to Jews.
That, my friend is a fact.

 

[fuji]

What facts?

This is what he wrote:

All Minorities (Including Sunni Muslims) are barred from running for President.

Compensation for a Death is less for a non muslim. (inheritence)

Jewish, Christian and Zoroastrian schools must be run by Muslim principals

Bahá'í Faith cannot run for any elected office, and has no regonition or protection under Iranian Law.

Need I mention how Homosexuals are treated ?

Women in Iran can inherit only half as much of their parents' wealth as their brothers.

Wikipedia is a fucked up imaginary world?

It's hardly authoritative. Wikipedia is a good general guide, but it's also very often wrong, so it's important to go and confirm anything you read in Wikipedia via some other, reputable source.

I'm not saying your rights are not screwed in Iran if your gay or a political activist, only that according to the constitution Muslem have equal rights to Jews.

Can a Jew be the Supreme Leader? Can a Jew be president? Can a Jew run for any seat in the Iranian Parliament? Can a Jew be a school principal, or hold any other similar position of authority?

The simple fact is there are many, many counter-examples to your claim--things that Jews are prohibited from doing in Iran.

"Jews are equal in Iran so long as they send their kids to a school with a Muslim school principal, and vote for a Muslim in parliament". That's equal?

 

[flubadub]

This is what he wrote:

All Minorities (Including Sunni Muslims) are barred from running for President.

Compensation for a Death is less for a non muslim. (inheritence)

All true, and all equal for Jews and Muslem.

Jewish, Christian and Zoroastrian schools must be run by Muslim principals
Bahá'í Faith cannot run for any elected office, and has no regonition or protection under Iranian Law.
Need I mention how Homosexuals are treated ?
Women in Iran can inherit only half as much of their parents' wealth as their brothers.

Immaterial to the statement that all Jews have equal rights to Muslem under the Iranian charter.

 

[onthebottom]

It's a sad day for Israel when those who like to bash it can compare it with Iran... if that doesn't cause reflection I don't know what would.

OTB

 

[toguy5252]

Jews and Muslem are accorded the same rights under the Iranian constitution.
That's more equal now then Israel.

Are you referring to the Islamic Republic of Iran?

 

[onthebottom]

Are you referring to the Islamic Republic of Iran?

If you check out this link:

Here is a particularly damning analysis: http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/the-jewish-republic-of-israel-1.318135

OTB

You'll notice the author uses "The Jewish Republic of Israel"...

OTB

 

[toguy5252]

If you check out this link:


You'll notice the author uses "The Jewish Republic of Israel"...

OTB

I agree with you that the oath is if nothing else poorly timed. Swearing oaths of allegiance is nothing new for new citizens and most countries Canada included have them. Israel is trying to codify the fact that it is the homeland of the Jewish people and I do not think there is anything racist about that at all. I do believe that swearing allegiance and loyalty to one's new country is reasonable. i do not believe that adding the Jewish part is necessary or desirable but I also believe that this is a phony issue being promoted by peole who are continually trying to delegitimize Israel.. this is simply more ammunition, which was entirely foreseeable, which has been given to those forces. In terms of the treatment of non-Jews in Israel you can either listen to the clowns or look at the facts on the ground. Israel notwithstanding that it is the homeland of the Jewish people enjoys a degree of democracy and equal treatment of all of its citizens which is second to no other country in the Middle East for sure and very few others in the world.

 

[onthebottom]

I agree with you that the oath is if nothing else poorly timed. Swearing oaths of allegiance is nothing new for new citizens and most countries Canada included have them. Israel is trying to codify the fact that it is the homeland of the Jewish people and I do not think there is anything racist about that at all. I do believe that swearing allegiance and loyalty to one's new country is reasonable. i do not believe that adding the Jewish part is necessary or desirable but I also believe that this is a phony issue being promoted by peole who are continually trying to delegitimize Israel.. this is simply more ammunition, which was entirely foreseeable, which has been given to those forces. In terms of the treatment of non-Jews in Israel you can either listen to the clowns or look at the facts on the ground. Israel notwithstanding that it is the homeland of the Jewish people enjoys a degree of democracy and equal treatment of all of its citizens which is second to no other country in the Middle East for sure and very few others in the world.

The real point, the one you have avoided in the otherwise sensible sentences above is this: why should new citizens be required to take different oaths based on their religion or race?

Did you see all the other laws that are pending in the article - pretty remarkable in a democratic republic I'd say. Can you explain why spouses from the West Bank are not afforded the same citizenship rights as spouses from Russia or the US?

Israel is swimming against demographic realities, in doing so they are going to marginalize their democratic principal OR bend to the new reality - this law (if that's what it becomes) is an example of the former.

OTB

 

[rama putri]

Well this certainly is a place for nutjobs who are arguing that Iran, IRAN, as more Jewish friendly than Israel is Muslim friendly. Oiyveh! My stomach just hurts with the pain of laughter. I just ... I can't ... OMFG ... Do any of you idiots actually even go to these places? Where do you get this crap?

 

[rama putri]

Oh wait I just answered my own question. You idiots do go there to learn the terrorist form of Jihad. No wonder.

 

[fuji]

All true, and all equal for Jews and Muslem.

So how is it equal that Muslims are entitled to a greater share of inheritance than Jews? Or that Muslims can run for a seat in the Parliament but Jews cannot?

You seem to have written your response without having given any thought to it.

Immaterial to the statement that all Jews have equal rights to Muslem under the Iranian charter.

How is it equality that you have to be a Muslim in order to be a school principal?

Wait... are you saying that Jews in Iran are equal, provided only that they convert to Islam?????

 

[onthebottom]

If the argument is that Israel is still better than Iran then I think the Israelis should aim higher.....

OTB

 

[fuji]

I think it's patently obvious that Arabs have more rights as citizens of Israel than they have in any other state in the Middle East. Apparently it's not so obvious to flubber though.

 

[onthebottom]

I think it's patently obvious that Arabs have more rights as citizens of Israel than they have in any other state in the Middle East. Apparently it's not so obvious to flubber though.

But isn't that a pathetically low bar?

OTB

 

[flubadub]

I think it's patently obvious that Arabs have more rights as citizens of Israel than they have in any other state in the Middle East. Apparently it's not so obvious to flubber though.

And its now a debatable point. Wasn't last year.
Its so very sad where Israel is taking itself these days.
Giving Obama and the states the finger over peace negotiations, losing reputation in the world and opening themselves up for charges at the ICC over the flotilla attacks, giving the ICRC, UN and WHO the finger over refusing to listen to criticisms and now making the die hard Israel supporters like Fuji have to seriously think about if Iran treats minorities better then Israel.

 

[fuji]

But isn't that a pathetically low bar?

OTB

You're assuming it's the bar. I'm just pointing it out as a fact.