Why Religion Fails

[canada-man]

http://pottsmerc.com/articles/2011/02/16/news/doc4d5c230ed9206190197726.txt?viewmode=fullstory

an Evangelical club notice riles up Montco parent


By Linda Stein, Journal Register News Service

A flier for an afterschool club affiliated with an evangelical group has at least one Souderton Area School District father concerned.

“Many of us have an issue with this in that it was placed in the students’ bookbags on public school property in the folder which is used for communication to parents,” said Charles Murphy, a Harleysville resident, in an e-mail to The Reporter, sister paper to The Mercury.

The flier was sent from Oak Ridge Elementary School in Lower Salford.

“They also are promoting religion on that the form has a religious undertone to it and if one is to look at their website, there clearly is a hate message,” Murphy said. “They are teaching the children that anyone not ‘accepting’ Jesus as their savior are damned to an eternity in hell.”

The flier, which advertises the Good News Club, which is affiliated with the Child Evangelism Fellowship, promotes “Games, Fun and Bible stories.”

School district Superintendent Frederick C. Johnson said that because of several court decisions, the district’s hands are tied.

“We have had our solicitor review this situation and our solicitor has concluded that based upon our practice and policy, the district has created a limited public forum by allowing some groups to disseminate information in this matter,” Johnson said in a written statement.

In a 2002 court case from Stafford Township in New Jersey that Child Evangelism Fellowship of New Jersey won, that district also had a policy of sending home materials from groups like the Cub Scouts or various teams.

The court held the district had established a limited forum for speech and must allow the Child Evangelism Fellowship fliers as well. In a separate case in 2001, the U.S. Supreme Court also ruled in favor the Child Evangelism Fellowship against another school district.

Johnson said district officials will re-examine its policy of sending items home with students in a folder with the district’s name on it.

“We do understand how you can argue that by stuffing this material in the district’s envelopes, the district looks like it is implicitly approving the contents of the documentation. This is clearly not true, because the district does not advocate any religious point of view or other personal issues of our parents and students,” Johnson wrote.

Murphy, a Catholic whose wife and children are Jewish, believes the club could create a climate of hate in the schools and that his children might be subject to bullying by other students.

“It’s troubling,” Murphy said. “It’s a diverse community. It sends a message (that) if children aren’t saved, they are damned to hell.”

Other students might ask his children if they are members of the Good News Club and, when they learn they are not, “then there’s bad news delivered,” he said.

Children from Muslim, Hindu or atheist families could be subjected to unwanted proselytizing or bullying by their peers, he said.

“Apparently this organization has found a loophole,” he added. “They’re aggressively going after school districts. It’s troubling,” Murphy said. “I’m not against this religious group but I think this sends a very dividing message.

“Recently we had a lot of hate crimes in the Indian Valley area,” he added, regarding swastikas found painted on a home. “What if the Taliban wanted to have a club? Where do you draw the line?”

Sheila Dallas, who directs the Child Evangelical Fellowship in Montgomery County, said her group has clubs that meet in 30 schools in Montgomery and Bucks counties and they are in 3,000 schools across the United States.

“We’re really excited to be in the schools,” Dallas said. “It’s a great opportunity for the kids. They learn character building.”

Dallas also mentioned the court rulings when told of Murphy’s concerns.

“It comes home just like all the other fliers come home,” she said. “We filled out the paperwork with the district. They don’t endorse it or not endorse it. If we were Girl Scouts, they would send it.”

Because it's new to Oak Ridge, Dallas scheduled the club to meet only during February. About 15 kids came to the meetings, she said. On Friday they had a Valentine’s Day party.


(this nonsense would NOT be tolerated here in Canada)

 

[rld]

http://pottsmerc.com/articles/2011/02/16/news/doc4d5c230ed9206190197726.txt?viewmode=fullstory

an Evangelical club notice riles up Montco parent


By Linda Stein, Journal Register News Service

A flier for an afterschool club affiliated with an evangelical group has at least one Souderton Area School District father concerned.

“Many of us have an issue with this in that it was placed in the students’ bookbags on public school property in the folder which is used for communication to parents,” said Charles Murphy, a Harleysville resident, in an e-mail to The Reporter, sister paper to The Mercury.

The flier was sent from Oak Ridge Elementary School in Lower Salford.

“They also are promoting religion on that the form has a religious undertone to it and if one is to look at their website, there clearly is a hate message,” Murphy said. “They are teaching the children that anyone not ‘accepting’ Jesus as their savior are damned to an eternity in hell.”

The flier, which advertises the Good News Club, which is affiliated with the Child Evangelism Fellowship, promotes “Games, Fun and Bible stories.”

School district Superintendent Frederick C. Johnson said that because of several court decisions, the district’s hands are tied.

“We have had our solicitor review this situation and our solicitor has concluded that based upon our practice and policy, the district has created a limited public forum by allowing some groups to disseminate information in this matter,” Johnson said in a written statement.

In a 2002 court case from Stafford Township in New Jersey that Child Evangelism Fellowship of New Jersey won, that district also had a policy of sending home materials from groups like the Cub Scouts or various teams.

The court held the district had established a limited forum for speech and must allow the Child Evangelism Fellowship fliers as well. In a separate case in 2001, the U.S. Supreme Court also ruled in favor the Child Evangelism Fellowship against another school district.

Johnson said district officials will re-examine its policy of sending items home with students in a folder with the district’s name on it.

“We do understand how you can argue that by stuffing this material in the district’s envelopes, the district looks like it is implicitly approving the contents of the documentation. This is clearly not true, because the district does not advocate any religious point of view or other personal issues of our parents and students,” Johnson wrote.

Murphy, a Catholic whose wife and children are Jewish, believes the club could create a climate of hate in the schools and that his children might be subject to bullying by other students.

“It’s troubling,” Murphy said. “It’s a diverse community. It sends a message (that) if children aren’t saved, they are damned to hell.”

Other students might ask his children if they are members of the Good News Club and, when they learn they are not, “then there’s bad news delivered,” he said.

Children from Muslim, Hindu or atheist families could be subjected to unwanted proselytizing or bullying by their peers, he said.

“Apparently this organization has found a loophole,” he added. “They’re aggressively going after school districts. It’s troubling,” Murphy said. “I’m not against this religious group but I think this sends a very dividing message.

“Recently we had a lot of hate crimes in the Indian Valley area,” he added, regarding swastikas found painted on a home. “What if the Taliban wanted to have a club? Where do you draw the line?”

Sheila Dallas, who directs the Child Evangelical Fellowship in Montgomery County, said her group has clubs that meet in 30 schools in Montgomery and Bucks counties and they are in 3,000 schools across the United States.

“We’re really excited to be in the schools,” Dallas said. “It’s a great opportunity for the kids. They learn character building.”

Dallas also mentioned the court rulings when told of Murphy’s concerns.

“It comes home just like all the other fliers come home,” she said. “We filled out the paperwork with the district. They don’t endorse it or not endorse it. If we were Girl Scouts, they would send it.”

Because it's new to Oak Ridge, Dallas scheduled the club to meet only during February. About 15 kids came to the meetings, she said. On Friday they had a Valentine’s Day party.


(this nonsense would NOT be tolerated here in Canada)

A lie followed by misleading garbage, highlighted to mislead.

Disappointing.

And the article is so cute...there is no talk of harm...just a legal ruling saying what was done was legal and some people saying it..."could" be a problem.

Perhaps the freethinkers club or athiests club should be banned as well?

But it appears CM that you care not for freedom of expression or association?

And if you don't think similar things happen in Canada, you are woefully uninformed.

 

[canada-man]

telling people they are damned and deserved eternal hellfire is HARMFUL especially to children who risk face religious bullying. this is also offensive and insulting and i won't be spoken to in that tone of voice. no children deserved to be talked to in that tone of voice. the problem here is public school material that have the school's name, district name and logos is used to give propaganda material kids. using the school's materials imply endorsement.

 

[rld]

telling people they are damned and deserved eternal hellfire is HARMFUL especially to children who risk face religious bullying. this is also offensive and insulting and i won't be spoken to in that tone of voice. no children deserved to be talked to in that tone of voice. the problem here is public school material that have the school's name, district name and logos is used to give propaganda material kids. using the school's materials imply endorsement.

Since you have chosen to lie and mislead, you will be spoken to in the tone of voice you have earned.

The school does not endorse the materials it simply sends it along, the article makes no mention of endorsement of any sort and in fact says the opposite.

And, as you would know if you read many of the articles published above, pyschological professionals have studied the issue and found religion generally enhances mental health. And as you know from the articles posted above students from religious families are better behaved in school.

But you just want to attack something you hate, no matter what the facts. You show no respect for the truth, why should anyone respect you?

 

[canada-man]

only religious apologetics claim that religion enhanced mental health if this was true how comes atheist/secular majority places like Sweden have no major problems with mental wellbeing? how comes the most stable, prosperous, happy nations are mostly secular and have low church attendance? how comes secular nations like Japan, and northern Europe have the lowest crime rates, and lower rates of dysfunction? people in the western 1st world are dropping out of church and there are no problems with mental well being.

 

[Mervyn]

only religious apologetics claim that religion enhanced mental health if this was true how comes atheist/secular majority places like Sweden have no major problems with mental wellbeing? how comes the most stable, prosperous, happy nations are mostly secular and have low church attendance? how comes secular nations like Japan, and northern Europe have the lowest crime rates, and lower rates of dysfunction? people in the western 1st world are dropping out of church and there are no problems with mental well being.

Umm, first of all Northern Europe is not a country.. you just made fun of americans in regards to geography.

As far as " Sweden having no major problems with Mental wellbeing " maybe it's because they rank 26th as one of the world leaders in most suicides.

 

[canada-man]

people with suicidal thoughts and other mental health issues need psychological and psychiatric help and treatment

 

[rld]

only religious apologetics claim that religion enhanced mental health if this was true how comes atheist/secular majority places like Sweden have no major problems with mental wellbeing? how comes the most stable, prosperous, happy nations are mostly secular and have low church attendance? how comes secular nations like Japan, and northern Europe have the lowest crime rates, and lower rates of dysfunction? people in the western 1st world are dropping out of church and there are no problems with mental well being.

You just lied again. Well done.

As posted above, scientific studies, carried out by mental health professionals have shown that religion is good for one's mental health on many levels.

For an athiest, you sure seem to want to live in a fantasy world divorced from the facts. Or do you just read your own materials and posts and ignore everyone elses?

 

[rld]

people with suicidal thoughts and other mental health issues need psychological and psychiatric help and treatment

and studies tell us that people who get mental health assistance who have religious beliefs have better outcomes.

 

[blackrock13]

only religious apologetics claim that religion enhanced mental health if this was true how comes atheist/secular majority places like Sweden have no major problems with mental wellbeing? how comes the most stable, prosperous, happy nations are mostly secular and have low church attendance? how comes secular nations like Japan, and northern Europe have the lowest crime rates, and lower rates of dysfunction? people in the western 1st world are dropping out of church and there are no problems with mental well being.

I sure would like to know where you get this information, as it seems to go against any i can find.

"Agnostic/secular majority places like Sweden"

I'm under the impression that only ~25% of the swedish public are atheists. . That doesn't sound like a majority to me. I noticed you lumped secularist and agnostics together to support your point, taking a page from nuttyboi book of statistical analysis, nice. They are different.

Sweden's religious makeup has changes since the Church of Sweden lost it's prominent position in the country in the late 90's and the populous have been allowed to followed their own choices, be it RC, Jewish, Muslim or whatever. This error in your claims appears to put a lot of the other 'facts' that you spout in a different light. Religion may not play a major part in Swedes daily life, but that a different point all together.

 

[canada-man]

Atheists encounter bigotry, lack civil rights

Natalie Casanova
Issue date: 2/21/11 Section: News

No one likes discrimination. Civil rights are fought for around the country every day: women and non-whites can vote, homosexuals can marry in some states and there are laws to protect these rights. Why should freedom of religious choice be any different? The first settlers came to America to escape religious oppression.

Atheism, derived from the Greek word atheos, literally means "without gods." Most U.S. citizens are theists, and believe in at least one god. The majority of the population is Christian. I grew up in a Catholic family and attended private school until I was 13 years old, when I decided religion was not for me. Recently I realized I am an atheist, and this choice will unfortunately cost me some of my rights.

Atheists are not bad people, and I'm not trying to preach that God doesn't exist. If you are religious and that works for you, then great, but don't let it be a crutch that disables the world from becoming a better, wiser place.

I could not agree more with what evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins said: "I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world."

In 1987, reporter Robert I. Sherman asked President George H. W. Bush, then campaigning for the presidency, how he would win the support of atheists in Chicago. Bush said he was weak in that community because faith in God was important to him. When Sherman asked him how he recognized atheists in America, Bush said, "I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God." This statement is discriminatory against a minority simply expressing their constitutional rights.

Did you know it is illegal for an atheist to hold office in Texas? According to Article 1 Section 4 of the Texas Constitution, "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust in this State; nor shall anyone be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."

Six other states have similar stipulations, and some prohibit atheists from testifying in court. In Massachusetts a person can be fined up to $300 or spend up to a year in jail for using the Lord's name in vain. This is not only unconstitutional, but it is blatantly ignorant. Atheists also take issue with "in God we trust" being added to currency.

The Galileo affair is one of the most famous cases of religion versus science. The Roman Catholic Church persecuted Galileo, himself a believer, for supporting Copernican astronomy, which theorized the sun, not Earth, was the center of the universe. It took 350 years after Galileo's death for Pope John Paul II to formally apologize on behalf of the church.

An even more disturbing religious affectation is the denial of theory of evolution, although there is substantial evidence to prove it. We catch the common cold again and again because the virus evolves each time, making our antibodies useless against next season's cold. Studies by human genome researchers at the University of Chicago have identified changes in DNA which suggests humans have adapted to their environment.

Political commentator Bill O'Reilly made a fool of himself in a January interview with president of American Atheists David Silverman on his show. O'Reilly said, "Tide goes in, tide goes out; never a miscommunication. You can't explain that." This claim hurts more than aids his case, because we all know the tides are drawn by gravity. O'Reilly later posted a video online defending his words against dissenters, who he called "pinheads," asking how the moon got there and why Mars and Venus don't have moons, which even a fifth grader would know is inaccurate.

Big issues for Texas include the budget deficit and its consequences for education. American Atheists have organized demonstrations asking the legislature tax churches to help save our schools. They are targeting large, multi-billion so-called "non-profit" churches, only one percent of the total. They suggest taxing the churches one percent, which these organizations could easily afford. I've seen these mega-churches and I don't agree with spending millions on extravagant, untaxed buildings.

In an interview with TV personality Joy Behar, comedian Steve Harvey said atheists are idiots with no morals. A study in the March 2010 issue of "Social Psychology Quarterly" shows a positive correlation between higher IQ, liberalism and atheism.

I believe there is meaning to life - the short time we live on this beautiful planet should be enjoyed and shared with fellow man until death.

As Carl Sagan said about the "Pale Blue Dot" photo: "Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. … The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every superstar, every supreme leader, every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there - on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam."

http://media.www.brookhavencourier....Bigotry.Lack.Civil.Rights-3979215-page2.shtml

 

[blackrock13]

Again, another nice Cut&Paste, from a community college newspaper in Texas no less. More wet straw on the pyre. Big deal.

So what's your point?

 

[rld]

Atheists encounter bigotry, lack civil rights

You mean the kind of bigotry that you spew against the religious?

Seriously, do you realize just how hypocritical you are?

You preach hatred against a group and complain when someone else does the same thing.

Is there no new low you will not stoop to?

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Congratulations canada-man, you've become the very thing you despise so much. A bigot!!

 

[rld]

For those who are not culture warriors like CM here is a fascinating article on different models on how science and religion can relate:

http://biologos.org/blog/the-relationship-between-science-and-religion/

 

[canada-man]

another day another case of religious offensiveness

'Despicable': website blames Christchurch quake on gay community

A website that claims Christchurch's devastating earthquake was an act of God triggered by the tolerance of homosexual behaviour in the city has been denounced as ''despicable and appalling'' by New Zealand's gay and lesbian community.

The website ''Christchurch Quake'' - registered on September 20 to an address in Utah in the USA - suggests the destruction was a result of ''lesbians running loose on the South Island as if they own the place'' and general ''amoral'' behaviour.

Among other inflammatory accusations, the website alleges that the earlier September earthquake, which coincided with the start of Gay Ski Week in Queenstown, was a warning from God to ''End the Evil - or else!''.

The website claims the September earthquake warning had not been heeded, leading to Tuesday’s 6.3-magnitude earthquake, which has killed at least 76 people, with reports of up to 300 still missing.

It also suggests other natural disasters in New Zealand, including the Pike River mine disaster which killed 29 men in November, was triggered by the country’s relaxed attitudes.

Jay Bennie, who runs the Auckland-based gay and lesbian website GayNz.com, said the people of Christchurch were already under enough stress without reading such outrageous comments.

'
‘‘I think it’s despicable, I think it’s appallingly insensitive, not only to gays and lesbians but to the suggestion that the people of Christchurch, by embracing gays and lesbians to certain degrees in their society, have brought this upon themselves. How cruel,’’ he said.

‘‘I’m originally from Christchurch, I’ve got family and friends down there. They’re all okay, but I know the stress they’re going through. They don’t need people like this trying to heap moral judgments and their own personal neuroses onto them and the others who are suffering in Christchurch.’’

Mr Bennie said he believed religious conservatives were responsible for the website, which says Christchurch was founded by a group of devout Anglicans who built for a purpose a cathedral at its centre.

‘‘They wanted to build a city where God was at the centre of their lives, physically and spiritually. Even the name of the city reflects their intention,’’ it says.

Mr Bennie said many religious conservatives lived in the American mid-west, and felt threatened by changing social attitudes.

‘‘The sort of people who do this, my understanding is that they have a tendency to see the world as a very unsafe place for them and their families because of changing social trends,’’ he said.

‘‘This feeds into their sense of doom, the-end-of-the-world-is-nigh kind of possibility, and that gays and lesbians are seen as a particular threat to the family.

‘‘It’s very strong in the American mid-west, as a lot of these conservative, evangelical, Pentecostal kind of religious elements are there, and that that flavour spreads around the world and then pops up in places like New Zealand and Australia and anywhere that there is a disaster that they in their minds can somehow connect.’’

http://www.theage.com.au/technology...ch-quake-on-gay-community-20110224-1b68y.html

 

[rld]

Back after a short break is our resident hatemonger, with his new, whoops, tired old, cut-and-paste attempt to set up a straw man and stop freedom of expression and thought.

 

[wet_suit_one]

I'm generally with Canada-man on this thread. I'll grant you that there's a certain anti-religion bias to the media sources he quotes, but history and day to day experience viewed through another lense tells me that something is dreadfully rotten with religion.

That and how can there possibly be "one true god" or "one way" or whatever the heck else that some believer of some faith (whatever faith that may be) is spouting when there are thousands and thousands of gods? How can this possible the basis for the power and influence that religion has in various places around the world? To my rational mind, this does not make sense. To my moral senses, the evils perpetrated by the "religious" under the cover of "religion" are offensive and downright wrong.

I'm a live and let live kinda guy, but the power and influence of religion is antithetical to a live and let live worldview. That and it is generally fucking crazy on the evidence.

Do you agree Canada-man? I'll loan you this argument on this thread.

Cheers and love thy neighbour and all that rot! It's a great ethos, too rarely put into practice.

 

[blackrock13]

CM;

Most reasonable people who feel inclined to read that web site would do so and move on, thinking just another whacko web rant. Does the WBC have a branch in Oz?

 

[Mervyn]

I'm generally with Canada-man on this thread. I'll grant you that there's a certain anti-religion bias to the media sources he quotes, but history and day to day experience viewed through another lense tells me that something is dreadfully rotten with religion.

That and how can there possibly be "one true god" or "one way" or whatever the heck else that some believer of some faith (whatever faith that may be) is spouting when there are thousands and thousands of gods? How can this possible the basis for the power and influence that religion has in various places around the world? To my rational mind, this does not make sense. To my moral senses, the evils perpetrated by the "religious" under the cover of "religion" are offensive and downright wrong.

I'm a live and let live kinda guy, but the power and influence of religion is antithetical to a live and let live worldview. That and it is generally fucking crazy on the evidence.

Do you agree Canada-man? I'll loan you this argument on this thread.

Cheers and love thy neighbour and all that rot! It's a great ethos, too rarely put into practice.

Most of the people who have posted to counter CM are not saying they are against the separtion of church and state, or deny that many terrible things have been done in the name of religion, that is not the problem here,

The problem here is CM has continually spoken about how it's wrong to discriminate or slander athiests (a point I agree with) but he then goes on to do the same thing to thiests.

He is a hypocrite.