Why It Matters That Seth Rogen Spoke Out Against Israel

[Charlemagne]

Why It Matters That Seth Rogen Spoke Out Against Israel

Seth Rogen grabbed headlines this week for saying he thinks the state of Israel “makes no sense.” He’s right — and his strident words signal a broader shift among young American Jews against Israel’s oppression of the Palestinians.

www.jacobinmag.com

 

[y2kmark]

Why It Matters That Seth Rogen Spoke Out Against Israel

Seth Rogen grabbed headlines this week for saying he thinks the state of Israel “makes no sense.” He’s right — and his strident words signal a broader shift among young American Jews against Israel’s oppression of the Palestinians.

www.jacobinmag.com

Presidential candidate debates are bound to be theatrical and dull. On the other hand a debate between Seth Rogan and Jerry Kushner would be worth watching...

 

[Insidious Von]

Seth Rogen was raised in an Orthdox household opposed to Zionism on religious grounds. I don't think Jared has the chutzpah to debate him.

He's still writing epic shit, Black Monday is as good as Billions.

 

[y2kmark]

Seth Rogen was raised in an Orthdox household opposed to Zionism on religious grounds. I don't think Jared has the chutzpah to debate him.

He's still writing epic shit, Black Monday is as good as Billions.

Kushner, doesn't have the chutzpah? I can't think of many people with more. Although he is Jewish, he married the daughter of a hardcore racist, most folks would regard that as ample chutzpah.

 

[Frankfooter]

Kushner, doesn't have the chutzpah? I can't think of many people with more. Although he is Jewish, he married the daughter of a hardcore racist, most folks would regard that as ample chutzpah.

Nah, its more quiet sleaze, marrying into what he thought was big money and then trying to shift things around in the background.
I'm sure a debate about his peace plan would be entertaining.
Oh, Israel just released their list of 300 or so people they think might be up for charges for war crimes by the ICC.
That should add to the debate.

 

[Dcoat]

I love Rogans stuff, a lot. But on this he's off base.

• 1 he's on the outside, doesn't even acknowledge that religious people have their marbles
• 2 he counts mideast history beginning in 1948, when Israel was formed by the UN. Everything prior to that doesn't exist or matter to him, including the expulsions and mass murders of jews,
• 3 because Israel is in constant danger, those posing the threat aren't the problem but Israel should leave. Thats just wacko victim blaming

 

[jcpro]

This falls in the same category as "So? We've always had pogroms"- as one high up communist apparatchik dismissed the attack on a Jewish community right after the WWII in the Eastern European city. He was Jewish, too. But, he felt himself secure behind the Stalin's coattails.

 

[shack]

I love Rogans stuff, a lot. But on this he's off base.

• 1 he's on the outside, doesn't even acknowledge that religious people have their marbles
• 2 he counts mideast history beginning in 1948, when Israel was formed by the UN. Everything prior to that doesn't exist or matter to him, including the expulsions and mass murders of jews,
• 3 because Israel is in constant danger, those posing the threat aren't the problem but Israel should leave. Thats just wacko victim blaming

What are they supposed to do when the Arabs follow their scripture and are told to drive the infidels into the sea?

 

[Frankfooter]

What are they supposed to do when the Arabs follow their scripture and are told to drive the infidels into the sea?

Come up with their own plan to drive the infidels into the sea, obviously.
How else do you achieve 'Eretz Israel'?

The Zionist movement and Likud charter really want the same goals for a different people.
Problem is those pesky natives that just didn't want to leave.

 

[jcpro]

Come up with their own plan to drive the infidels into the sea, obviously.
How else do you achieve 'Eretz Israel'?

The Zionist movement and Likud charter really want the same goals for a different people.
Problem is those pesky natives that just didn't want to leave.

I guess it escaped your notice that Eretz Israel already exists with the capitol in Jerusalem. A product of centuries of long struggle by generations of Zionists only wishing for a homeland away from the Jew hating people such as some here- in 2020 CE. As for the actor. When his time to run arrives(Gd forbids), there will be a spot for him in Eretz Israel, too.

 

[Frankfooter]

I guess it escaped your notice that Eretz Israel already exists with the capitol in Jerusalem. A product of centuries of long struggle by generations of Zionists only wishing for a homeland away from the Jew hating people such as some here- in 2020 CE. As for the actor. When his time to run arrives(Gd forbids), there will be a spot for him in Eretz Israel, too.

You're not supposed to admit that, jc.
'Cuz that means its just apartheid Israel.
You said that part out loud, its supposed to be internal, now basketcase is going to get mad at you.

 

[shapeup1]

Amazing how Charlemagne has taken such a big interest with Israel, its like he's competing with Groggy.

 

[basketcase]

...

• 2 he counts mideast history beginning in 1948, when Israel was formed by the UN. Everything prior to that doesn't exist or matter to him, including the expulsions and mass murders of jews,...

And ignores that half of Israeli Jews are descended from Jews that lived in the Middle East under the Ottomans and chased/fled from their homes, just like many Palestinians.

Sorry but if you want to look at refugees and population displacements, you need to look at the 750,000 Palestinian refugees AND the 800,000 Jewish refugees Israel absorbed. In the same period of time, both Pakistan and India received around 7 million who fled from being a religious minority after partition. A couple decades earlier, almost a million Greek refugees were forced from their homes in what had just became Turkey and 400,000 Greek Muslims went the other way.

The only difference is India, Pakistan, Greece, Turkey, and Israel went through great hardships to absorb the refugees while the surrounding Arab states locked refugees in camps despite being the ones who launched the war that caused the population swaps. All of the other conflicts saw the population transfers as historical tragedy to put in the past as opposed to abusing ethnically identical people simply for political purposes.

 

[Frankfooter]

And ignores that half of Israeli Jews are descended from Jews that lived in the Middle East under the Ottomans and chased/fled from their homes, just like many Palestinians.

So if you believe in those rights why, other than your overt racism, do you think that the 5 million Palestinian refugees chased out and ethnically cleansed from Israel don't have the same right of return to their homes in Palestine/Israel?

Your answer is going to be more racist than Trump and his supporters, isn't it?

 

[basketcase]

So if you believe in those rights why, other than your overt racism, do you think that the 5 million Palestinian refugees chased out and ethnically cleansed from Israel don't have the same right of return to their homes in Palestine/Israel?

Your answer is going to be more racist than Trump and his supporters, isn't it?

Funny that you describe the vast majority of Arabs choosing to flee the war before any Jewish fighters were near as ethnic cleansing but are silent on all the Arab states that chose to persecute their own Jewish population by revoking citizenship, adding racial taxes, and legislatively removing rights simply because there was a war with some other Jews.

You never go for moral consistency but from a perspective of fairness, whatever you propose for one side needs to be applied to the other. That means if you think Palestinian refugees and their descendants should have full rights as citizens of Israel (something that polling of refugees shows they overwhelmingly don't want - off the top of my head, only 13% of refugees/descendants want to become Israelis in the last poll I saw) then Jewish refugees and their descendants should have full rights to return to Lebanon, Egypt, North Africa, Iran, ..... That will never work though since those states would never go for it.

Next most reasonable is that refugees/descendants on both sides receive financial compensation. Again, the Arab states will never give money to family of Jews they chased out.

So that leaves us with the third fair solution which is the one implemented between India/Pakistan and between Greece and Turkey. Countries accept the refugees who came to them and consider the issue solved. That will never work though since those Arab states would never give up the political leverage they have from keeping descendants of Palestinian refugees locked in camps.


On the pragmatic side, the only way forward is what Israel has offered/agreed to in multiple discussions since the 90's; some small number of refugees/descendants (those few who actually want to be Israeli) get accepted as citizens and the rest get financial compensation (ignoring Jewish refugees/descendants). Sadly Arafat and Abbas keep walking away from peace plans so that won't happen either under the current Palestinian leadership.

 

[Frankfooter]

Funny that you describe the vast majority of Arabs choosing to flee the war before any Jewish fighters were near as ethnic cleansing

'Choosing to flee'?

That's pretty disgusting that you are trying to claim they chose to be ethnically cleansed and then spend their next half a century waiting for Israel to honour their right of return.
What next, you gonna argue that Palestinians love apartheid because of the extra security from crimes?
And that Palestinians support using snipers on them when they protest because they understand that asking for basic human rights is too much?

I'm sure you also thought that slaves chose to leave Africa for their chance to live out the American dream.

Again, aside from this weird fantasy you can't give one legit reason why you believe Jews have the right to return to Israel/Palestine but not Palestinians.
Its blatant racism, basketcase.

You said this today in another thread.

Seriously, take even the slightest look at the academic study of history. It is ALL commentary and anyone worth their salt will critically examine secondary/tertiary sources with divergent interpretations.

So stop trying to push your colonial historical revisionism.

Black Lives Matter and lessons from Palestine

Lessons from the Palestinian struggle can be crucial for the success of the anti-racism uprising in the United States.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[basketcase]

'Choosing to flee'?
...

Yes. In one of your previous handles you even posted historians saying only 2% of Palestinian refugees were actually forced out and if you read Rashid Khalidi, he discusses that the vast majority of refugees left long before Israel actually declared independence and the Arab armies invaded.

And yes, I notice your post completely avoids the answers to the question you asked. I have made quite clear that if you want fairness, Arabs who fled from Israel (and their descendants) should have the exact same consideration as Jewish refugees from Arab/Islamic lands (and their descendants). You seem to reject that concept so it is quite clear that you think Jewish refugees should be treated differently than Arab refugees.

Instead of hiding behind tag lines you found on some anti-Israel blog, you should try actually reading some historical works on the conflict. Here's a few suggestions, all of which I have read (and you will refuse to read anything which you think might disagree with you).
The Iron Cage - Rashid Khalidi
1948 - Benny Morris
The Arab israeli Conflict - Efraim Kharsh
Six Days of War - Michael Oren
From Beiruit to Jerusalem - Thomas Friedman


And a couple recent books which aren't really historic studies but worth reading.
In Search of fatima - Ghada Karmi
My Promised Land - Ari Shavit
letters to My Palestinian neighbour - Yossi Halevi

 

[Frankfooter]

I have made quite clear that if you want fairness, Arabs who fled from Israel (and their descendants) should have the exact same consideration as Jewish refugees .

So you now say that all 5 million Palestinians should not only be allowed back but have their return trips paid by Israel and then be granted full citizenship.

Law of Return - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Great.
For once we agree.

 

[Dcoat]

So you now say that all 5 million Palestinians should not only be allowed back but have their return trips paid by Israel and then be granted full citizenship.

This makes your thinking, or lack of it, pretty clear. If you read basketcases post, you don't understand it.

Try again.

 

[Frankfooter]

This makes your thinking, or lack of it, pretty clear. If you read basketcases post, you don't understand it.

Try again.

I totally understand basketcase's attempt to use the qualifier 'fled' as whether or not any person qualifies for what the world understands to be the basic human right of return.
But since its just basketcase attempting to rationalize his own racist qualifiers and claim that 98% of Palestinians therefore have forfeited their universal human rights I'm ignoring it.
Because its a garbage claim, the same sort of shite that racists always use to rationalize extremely racist goals.
Basketcase's clear goal is to justify refusing to honour Palestinians universal basic human rights.

Why don't you try again and tell me why you think he's right.