Why Americans are considered warmongers...

[someone]

Regarding the American school system - I learned plenty there about the rest of the world, just not as much about Canada as Canadians know about the US. I explained why this would be already…the Looney, daddy working at the Ford plant, etc. Interestingly enough, I have yet to meet an "average" Canadian whose knowledge of the rest of the world outside of either the US or Canada exceeded that of the typical American - meaning limited. But wait…I get it...you’re playing the “we are just so much more educated and sophisticated” angle…the one that explains why only something on the order of 77% of Canadians can name their own Prime Minister. BTW, WTF would you know about the American school system, since you don’t have an American degree? Again with the arrogant, presumptive attitude.

I don’t know why I’m responding to one of your posts as your intention is clearly just to engage in flame wars. However, having first hand experience with the American university system I can’t resist. Anyone who has taught in a U.S. College or university and a Canadian university can tell you that the output of U.S. high schools is horrible. Moreover, the OECD agrees. See http://www.pisa.oecd.org/dataoecd/1/63/34002454.pdf

Also, anyone who has lived for any time at all in the U.S. can tell you many amusing stories about how little the average American knows about the rest of the world.

 

[RTRD]

So....?

I don’t know why I’m responding to one of your posts as your intention is clearly just to engage in flame wars. However, having first hand experience with the American university system I can’t resist. Anyone who has taught in a U.S. College or university and a Canadian university can tell you that the output of U.S. high schools is horrible. Moreover, the OECD agrees. See http://www.pisa.oecd.org/dataoecd/1/63/34002454.pdf

Also, anyone who has lived for any time at all in the U.S. can tell you many amusing stories about how little the average American knows about the rest of the world.

Regarding US High Schools...I don't disagree, but what does that have to do with this discussion? Are we now comparing school systems? What really matters is this - the US school system, for all of its flaws, still produces the most efficient and effective workforce in the world, and the US, despite having an admittedly sorry ass school system (in comparison to a handful of other countries) still enjoys economic dominance. In other words, for all its flaws, it is apparently good enough.

Regarding how little the average American knows about the rest of the world, I stand by my original point - prove to me that the average Canadian knows anymore (save knowledge about the United States). Are you REALLY claiming that those ranchers and oilrig jockeys in Western Canada are experts on international affairs?

The real truth is, having traveled a few places myself, is that most people (Canadians included) are shocked by how little Americans know about THEIR nation / culture, because they are so comparatively obsessed with the US. It isn't that that Canadians are experts on African politics - it’s that Canadians are experts on AMERICAN politics and resent that most Americans frankly could give a damn what happens north of the border. Well, we covered this already - when Canada gets to be as important to the day-to-day life of the typical American as the United States is the typically Canadian, things will more than likely change. But right now, things are the way they are, because they are the way they are.

The difference between us (well, not necessarily you - just a general Eastern Canadian sentiment) however, that I don't think any less of them for not being "renaissance men". I respect a man for what he has accomplished in life, his ability to make his way, and his willingness to protect and provide for those he cares for.

You know, now that I think of it, it could be that my issues aren't with Canadians at all. I've come to know some damn decent men from Edmonton and Calgary.

I think it is with the pompous ass New Yorker wannabes who live in the GTA...

 

[someone]

And like I said...you send me a PM with an email address and I will gladly trade resumes (including academic background) with you...Sally Struthers indeed.

So you think that it is likely that someone posting a prostitution related board who knows you dislike them will give you identifying information? Somehow, I don’t think you really expect someone posting on a board like this to take you up on your offer.

 

[someone]

Regarding US High Schools...I don't disagree, but what does that have to do with this discussion? Are we now comparing school systems?

If you check you will find that I was responding to a post you made regarding U.S. schools. Thus, you are in a better position to answer this question.

What really matters is this - the US school system, for all of its flaws, still produces the most efficient and effective workforce in the world, and the US, despite having an admittedly sorry ass school system (in comparison to a handful of other countries) still enjoys economic dominance. In other words, for all its flaws, it is apparently good enough.

Given that “good enough” is a very subjective term, I can’t argue with you here. However, what I would say the U.S work force really benefits from is the ability to attract educated immigrants

Regarding how little the average American knows about the rest of the world, I stand by my original point - prove to me that the average Canadian knows anymore (save knowledge about the United States). Are you REALLY claiming that those ranchers and oilrig jockeys in Western Canada are experts on international affairs?

I would not call them experts but they would know more than the vast majority of Americans I’ve meet in places like the bible belt or Texas. I never used to realize how bad it was as I had spent most of my time in big American cities. Once you get away from the big cities, things become very shocking.

The real truth is, having traveled a few places myself, is that most people (Canadians included) are shocked by how little Americans know about THEIR nation / culture, because they are so comparatively obsessed with the US. It isn't that that Canadians are experts on African politics - it’s that Canadians are experts on AMERICAN politics and resent that most Americans frankly could give a damn what happens north of the border. Well, we covered this already - when Canada gets to be as important to the day-to-day life of the typical American as the United States is the typically Canadian, things will more than likely change. But right now, things are the way they are, because they are the way they are.

While there is some turth to this, it is also the case they tend to know less about other countries (e.g. countries in Europe) than Canadians or others do. However, unless one of us is willing to do the work of digging up data (and I’m too busy for that right now) I suppose this part of the discussion will not get very far.

 

[yychobbyist]

Like I said to Jamaica - send a PM with a email address, and we can whip them out. But given that the notion of pursuing your field of study at more than one university in order to gain various perspectives seemed foreign to you, I'm not worried...

Regarding your most hated list...like I give a damn...

You're hardly worth arguing with. Let me know if you ever get your head out of your ass and then we can talk.

 

[Asterix]

As a fellow US citizen I have to agree with MLAM regarding the whole Canadian border thing. After all, you guys somehow managed to let him slip through and move up there.

 

[Jamaica-luvr]

You're hardly worth arguing with. Let me know if you ever get your head out of your ass and then we can talk.

what he said....

you're nothing, if not dedicated to proving what an ass you are with every post...you resort to obscenity and name-calling and diversion whenever your so-called "facts" are questioned...

Even Asterix, a fellow US citizen, wonder's why the hell we let you in, and why the hell we let you stay...all other issues this post has created aside...

as far as giving you my email address in a PM, what kind of cretin are you? It's much more likely that the Canadian wife, the education claims, and the 9/11 BS are products of your vivid imagination, and you're still living in mom & dad's basement....you first, my pm box is empty...

When YOU get some facts straight about the relationship between the US and Canada, then post again and offer something thoughtful and incisive, instead of your slanted, inflammatory rhetoric....

 

[Asterix]

Even Asterix, a fellow US citizen, wonder's why the hell we let you in, and why the hell we let you stay...all other issues this post has created aside...

Even Asterix? Now you've gone and hurt my feelings.

Actually it's all part of our evil plan to send you our most obnoxious people as payback for allowing you to bask in our unrelenting glory.

 

[RTRD]

Like I thought...

You're hardly worth arguing with. Let me know if you ever get your head out of your ass and then we can talk.

All talk, no action. Real easy to be a "tough guy" when you aren't prepared to back it up. "Pull out your education dick" indeed....

 

[RTRD]

Uh huh....

what he said....

you're nothing, if not dedicated to proving what an ass you are with every post...you resort to obscenity and name-calling and diversion whenever your so-called "facts" are questioned...

Even Asterix, a fellow US citizen, wonder's why the hell we let you in, and why the hell we let you stay...all other issues this post has created aside...

as far as giving you my email address in a PM, what kind of cretin are you? It's much more likely that the Canadian wife, the education claims, and the 9/11 BS are products of your vivid imagination, and you're still living in mom & dad's basement....you first, my pm box is empty...

When YOU get some facts straight about the relationship between the US and Canada, then post again and offer something thoughtful and incisive, instead of your slanted, inflammatory rhetoric....

You have a PM, containing the message below:

************@yahoo.com

I'll send an edited (personal details removed) resume once you do the same. Edit yours as you see fit - that will tell me to what level I should edit mine.

It was a debate regarding political POVs and the facts to substantiate same. You are the one who questioned my background, etc – I never questioned yours. Now lets see if you are willing to back up your accusations by putting your own up to scrutiny. I'm prepared to show you my educational and professional background - can you prove YOU aren't living in your parents’ basement?

Refute any of my facts - EVEN ONE - then I will "get my facts straight". I note that even though I have quoted easily researched facts and figures, along with links, you have failed to do that - focusing instead on my "obscenity and name-calling".

It seems every time that I post a point to refute your absurd premises, you conveniently then decide you don’t like the tone and tenor with which I delivered the message. But I'm the one using "diversions".

Here, let me help you - I'll refocus the debate:

It is very surprising that Canadians take license to be so critical and judgmental of the United States given that the very standard of living and way of life Canadians enjoy is directly dependent on the United States. It is at best rude, and in my estimation arrogant and unappreciative.

When you suggested that the US and Canada were equally dependent on each other, I pointed out that while US / Canadian trade represents less than 3% of US GDP, it is more than 30% of Canadian GDP. These are FACTS. Take 60 seconds to do a Google search.

When you appeared to suggest that the trade between the US and Canada was not central to Canadian economics, I pointed out that this trade had been going on for nearly two centuries, starting with the fur trade. You responded that Canada also traded with countries in Europe - as though this somehow meant the trade between the US & Canada did not exist. I posted links which historically documented US / Canada fur trade - you...well at this point I don't know what your point was anymore.

I then speculated with another poster that the real issue was as he suggested - that (many) Canadians suffer from collective a identity / esteem crisis – and that the behavior I was speaking of was fascinating given the level of obsession Canadians (on the whole) have with American culture, etc., even going so far as to attend American universities on a far more frequent basis than the converse, despite American universities being more expensive. You countered this with something on American secondary schools and learning about fur trade - again, what this had to do with my point, I don't know.

Let start over - clearly you got lost somewhere. Without saying that your ORGINAL POST missed the mark (I never said it did), I think Canadians should be a bit less obnoxious with their criticism and judgments of the US, given that they benefit directly from the polices and collective international behavior of the country they are directing their criticisms toward.

Your turn. I didn’t swear once, so maybe you won’t be distracted by my “diversions” and can actually formulate an intelligent counter argument.

 

[RTRD]

Not really...

So you think that it is likely that someone posting a prostitution related board who knows you dislike them will give you identifying information? Somehow, I don’t think you really expect someone posting on a board like this to take you up on your offer.

... but I figure if you are going to make charges and insults, you should be prepared to back them up. I never made a disparaging remark about the education or professional backgrounds of YYC or Jamaica - I don't know the men. They also don't know me, but that didn't stop them. Fine. I am prepared to (anonymously) detail out my "credentials". Are they willing to do the same? If not, then they should have the good sense to stop tossing rotten tomatoes. It is real easy to say, "you probably live in your parents basement" when you cannot actual debate the issue at hand.

Actually, for what it is worth, I have probably over the last year posted enough details about myself to cover off on any questions. I think I have at different points covered where I live in the GTA, where I did both my grad and undergrad studies and even what I do for a living, all in pretty vague terms of course. If someone like YYC or Jamaica cares, they can research the posts. I don’t expect that they do – I don’t care about them either frankly, but I’m not calling them liars.

It really comes down to that “character” thing. Why would a person call a man a liar unless had had good reason or proof? Hmmm…perhaps as "diversion" for the fact that they can't actually hold their own in a debate or define / defend their POV.

 

[RTRD]

I respectfully disagree...

If you check you will find that I was responding to a post you made regarding U.S. schools. Thus, you are in a better position to answer this question.



Given that “good enough” is a very subjective term, I can’t argue with you here. However, what I would say the U.S work force really benefits from is the ability to attract educated immigrants



I would not call them experts but they would know more than the vast majority of Americans I’ve meet in places like the bible belt or Texas. I never used to realize how bad it was as I had spent most of my time in big American cities. Once you get away from the big cities, things become very shocking.


While there is some turth to this, it is also the case they tend to know less about other countries (e.g. countries in Europe) than Canadians or others do. However, unless one of us is willing to do the work of digging up data (and I’m too busy for that right now) I suppose this part of the discussion will not get very far.

I don't recall making ANY comments about the quality of US secondary schools - so I am still not clear how the topic came up. I did say that Canadian fur trade wasn't typically a topic for study - and I asked Jamaica to explain how he would know what was being taught in US secondary schools given that he had never been in one. But that has nothing to do with the quality of education.

I would say that immigrants are such a small percentage of the US workforce - much smaller than in Canada for example - that your premise is incorrect. If you'd like to have an intelligent debate on this though, we can.

I disagree regarding the international knowledge of rural Americans versus rural Canadians. I have been shocked by the relative lack of knowledge of Canadians from the far east (PEI, etc.) for example. But this is an entirely subjective debate - you have your opinion, I have mine, and no doubt we are both biased. I still say however that one difference is that I, and probably most Americans, simply don’t judge their fellow man based on such things. I will agree with you on this – Americans VALUE such knowledge less than Canadians. Americans tend to think in terms of utilitarian value. And while you and I might know that being aware of the world and its various people and cultures is important, yeah, many Americans probably would not agree. This doesn’t make them less than decent people however, nor worthy of the criticism that gets heaped on them.

Yes, you are right - that discussion won't get very far, because I disagree. I have periodically asked people I worked with - educated (if not cosmopolitan) Canadians questions about Europe...like "who is the Prime Minister of Spain". My experience has been that with the exception of the UK, the typically Canadian, even an educated one, has no greater knowledge of the rest of the world than the typically American, save for perhaps the UK But again, this is all a subjective argument. Hard to prove with facts.

 

[someone]

I don't recall making ANY comments about the quality of US secondary schools - so I am still not clear how the topic came up. I did say that Canadian fur trade wasn't typically a topic for study - and I asked Jamaica to explain how he would know what was being taught in US secondary schools given that he had never been in one. But that has nothing to do with the quality of education.

I don't want to go through all the details of your post as I think that you guys have pretty well exhausted the topic, but regarding this point, I was responding to the following statement you made regarding the U.S. education system:

Regarding the American school system - I learned plenty there about the rest of the world, just not as much about Canada as Canadians know about the US. I explained why this would be already…the Looney, daddy working at the Ford plant, etc. Interestingly enough, I have yet to meet an "average" Canadian whose knowledge of the rest of the world outside of either the US or Canada exceeded that of the typical American - meaning limited. But wait…I get it...you’re playing the “we are just so much more educated and sophisticated” angle…the one that explains why only something on the order of 77% of Canadians can name their own Prime Minister. BTW, WTF would you know about the American school system, since you don’t have an American degree? Again with the arrogant, presumptive attitude.

BTW, besides teaching American students, I also did some of my primary school in the U.S. I actually recall learning all the capitals of Canadian provinces (I don't think we were ever tested on them but that was so long ago, that I don't remember the details anyway). Nonetheless, based on my observations of Americans I have meet later, I think that school must have been an exception (if you looked at the link I posted before, you will see a high variance in U.S. education results).

 

[yychobbyist]

All talk, no action. Real easy to be a "tough guy" when you aren't prepared to back it up. "Pull out your education dick" indeed....

I only pull my dick out to those who enjoy a good laugh. You're so uptight all you'd do is see it and begin to weep for Canada.

I had no idea grad schools produced such whiny bitches these days. You must be a Western grad.

 

[RTRD]

Uh huh....

I only pull my dick out to those who enjoy a good laugh. You're so uptight all you'd do is see it and begin to weep for Canada.

I had no idea grad schools produced such whiny bitches these days. You must be a Western grad.

Lots of yap. Little action. Said you were ready to do something, someone calls your bluff, now you are afraid to be made an ass. Too bad it’s too late.

**"Listen pal, if you want to whip out dicks and compare sizes when it comes to education and degrees, then bring it on."**

And to think I didn't even ASK for your damn opinion regarding me or my education. But when your bluff was called...well...I think it is pretty plain.

Next time you might be better served to just stay your ass on the sidelines where you were. Wait until you are finished growing up and have some chest hair to go with that degree you are now apparently ashamed to own up to.

No, not a "Western Grad". Didn't go to school in Canada. Not a Canadian. Arrived in Canada 2.5 years ago. Connect the dots...it isn't hard.

 

[RTRD]

Wow...

what he said....

you're nothing, if not dedicated to proving what an ass you are with every post...you resort to obscenity and name-calling and diversion whenever your so-called "facts" are questioned...

Even Asterix, a fellow US citizen, wonder's why the hell we let you in, and why the hell we let you stay...all other issues this post has created aside...

as far as giving you my email address in a PM, what kind of cretin are you? It's much more likely that the Canadian wife, the education claims, and the 9/11 BS are products of your vivid imagination, and you're still living in mom & dad's basement....you first, my pm box is empty...

When YOU get some facts straight about the relationship between the US and Canada, then post again and offer something thoughtful and incisive, instead of your slanted, inflammatory rhetoric....

"9/11 BS"

I missed this the first time.

You are one pathetic piece of crap. You question MY CHARACTER, but you are comfortable making light of the tragedy of 9/11 just for arguments sake on a message board?

You actually think I would make up what I lived through that day and the ensuing months?

That is amazing...have YOU no character or shame or dignity???

You win. This debate is over. It went from fun to unspeakably shameful and pathetic just now. I enjoyed rattling your cage - but if this is the level you are prepared to stoop to, you win. I'm not going to join you down there. I'm better than that and clearly better than you - it is just that simple. No point in lowering myself to your level.

And you pity me?

What a little, small man you are. Your world must be very, very sad if "victory" is that important to you.

 

[Jamaica-luvr]

"9/11 BS"

I missed this the first time.

You are one pathetic piece of crap. You question MY CHARACTER, but you are comfortable making light of the tragedy of 9/11 just for arguments sake on a message board?

You actually think I would make up what I lived through that day and the ensuing months?

That is amazing...have YOU no character or shame or dignity???

You win. This debate is over. It went from fun to unspeakably shameful and pathetic just now. I enjoyed rattling your cage - but if this is the level you are prepared to stoop to, you win. I'm not going to join you down there. I'm better than that and clearly better than you - it is just that simple. No point in lowering myself to your level.

And you pity me?

What a little, small man you are. Your world must be very, very sad if "victory" is that important to you.

MLAM....the reference to the "9/11 BS", referred to the picture you tried to paint of yourself sitting at the typewriter crying as you wrote "I love Canada"...when you clearly don't. Be advised that I am no way denigrating any of the events of that day...only you. But of course you know that...and are only trying to garner sympathy from those who simply haven't read the whole thread from one end to the other.

Let's not forget the original post....I commented that the actions of a some misguided corporate weasel in using a military theme at a sales seminar only helps to confirm the rest of the world's perception of Americans(or at least their goverment) of being warmongers.

Then....you stuck your nose in with a personal rant about how you have had it up to here with sanctimonious Canadians daring to criticize American action on the world stage. You thought you offered a "unique" perspective because some misguided Canadian girl took pity on you and married your sorry ass. Like it or not, citizens of every country, in every era, are judged by others of another nationality by the actions of their respective goverments. The tone, if not the actual words, drew my ire....so typical, I thought, another "ugly American"...and so it began.

Maybe it all boils down to everyone just wants to be loved. It seems to me that 'America' wants to be loved...loved for it's way of life, loved for it's culture, loved for it's political system...and yet when it meddles in other nations affairs, and trys to exert it's overwhelming influence where it's not wanted(or maybe not needed), it reacts like a petulant child. Even Bush said "you're either with us or against us" when the wounds of 9/11 were fresh...and was shocked when the rest of the world said "now wait a minute...."

You are right about one thing...it is over...I'm not prepared to have any contact with you in any way except over this board...I in no way trust you to keep any email or contact information confidential...considering the main purpose of the board is to compare our experiences within the sex industry.

I think you're a farking nutbar...and wound way too tight...
so.....in closing......BITE ME!

 

[islandboy]

This thread continues to degrade. It reads like husbands and wifes when they argue and say things they really do not mean.

 

[red]

This thread continues to degrade. It reads like husbands and wifes when they argue and say things they really do not mean.

exactly. they sound like warmongers

 

[onthebottom]

Mods,

Just close the thread, they can insult each other on PMs.

OTB