What Would You Do?.....

[papasmerf]

.......................

I deleted the quote.

But I dare say you have wisdom in your words.

 

[*d*]

I thought calling a not gender spacific liberal hillery was a compliment.

You mean hillery is not the standard bearer for the DNC?

I do not overindulge myself in the battle of liberal vs conservative that you are so intently infatuated with. I don't see the whole world divided into only two opposite spheres of political thought. And I couldn't care less about Hillary Clinton. I care about the implications of US foreign policy. And both Clinton and Bush's stand on these policies are too similar for my liking.

 

[Pete Graves]

The question is wrong

The question is not, "What would liberals do", it is "What have liberals done":

- Propogandize the Patriot Act
- Propograndize prison abuse
- Attempt to broaden their voter base and their coffers by unionizing airport screeners (the result of which would have made it impossible to fire bad screeners)

They've spent more time fighting for our enemies than actually proposing a way to deal with terrorism. My god, I'm surprised they haven't proposed "Midnight Basketball" for the terrorists.

 

[Argocock]

cock and AHHHHHHH

I think the problem is all these Muslim terrorists are too conservative in the first place.

The CIA needs to do a covert operation to get these radical extremists to lighten up, smoke a joint, eat some pussy and get their cocks sucked, this way we show them that there are more peaceful ways of getting 70 young maidens and they don't have to fly a plane into a building to get 70 virgins...

Its impossible they can stay brainwashed by religion that long. We can call it the COCK and AHHHHHHH campaign.

 

[K Douglas]

Biggie E, why u think that there are terrorists out there trying to harm usa, why only usa, why not other places, because of usa foreign one way direction policies that brought this so-called terror on its soil. people in some parts of the world had enough of the american bullying, the latest one invading sovergn countries which in theory wipes out the rights of every country in the world to live within its borders and be free and independant despite its history, culture and policies and to do what its people have to do or inspire to do. usa wants every one in this world to do what they dectated to them what to do, "protecting israel and helping it to continue exist" every one should protect israel even if it comes at the cost of self distruction to some nations and civil wars in others and regional conflicts fueled by bribes and intimidations and threats by usa policy makers, yes thats the truth that no politician is capable to tell the american people about or to admit it. recently they tainted all arabs to be terrorists, i just heard that all american soldier have the impression that they are fighting the 250ml arabs and the 1.2blon muslims in this world, and they should kill them every where they see them because they are the real enemy. the arabs did nothing to usa, on the contrary, they invested their oil money in usa instead of their people or lands, the muslims did nothing to usa too, they respect christianity and joudiasim as well, the other two don't respect islam, its the americans who did harm to arabs and muslims instead. The americans looted arabs resources, encouraged israel to occupy their land by force, encouraged israel to humilate arab people at every opportunity, until this moment, arabs are still suffering as result of usa foreign policies and the brutality of israel against them, innocent people are dying daily in the arab world, families wiped out, houses destroyed, and u still cant figure out why they dont like americans in that part of the world. u better open your eyes.

Pro419

I think your interpretation of history is completely flawed. Judaism and Christianity teach respect for people of all faiths as we are all gods children. Islam does the same. The difference is that the Islamic fanatics are tarnishing their religion with their jihadist propoganda. Throughout the course of history extremism has been far more prevalent in Islam than in Christianity or Judaism.
Americans encouraged Israel to occupy the Arab land by force? Israel was created mostly by French and British efforts, Americans had no involvement in the region until the Suez crisis in 1956. And lets remember that it was Arabic countries (read Trans Jordan,Mandate of Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iraq) that were the continual instigator of all conflicts between Arabs and Jews since 1948.
Innocent people are dying everyday in the Arab world not solely because of the US led invasion but more because of tyrannical Muslim regimes, religious fanaticism, lies and deceit in the name of Islam and false propoganda.

 

[Mcluhan]

I suppose we should have spent the billions of dollars the US has used up in Iraq to build schools and police stations and hospitals and factories and ports in all the poor countries on earth, so they could make some money, build a house, put food on their tables, and buy tickets to soccer games.

Great post bayisle66, nice to see reflection through your eyes

Why I quoted you passage above is because you overlooked the high standard of Iraqi infrastructure of schools and hospitals that Iraq had before the 10 years of starvation and bombing. Hussain, tyrant that he was, build Iraq up to a model of modern day Arab achievement in terms of education, transportation, and medical facilities. The US and Co. has war torn this country into a broken mess and its worth making a note of what was there before the destruction when doing the moral social balance sheet. The cost of rebuilding a country devastated by another unnecessary and futile war should be mentioned, as well as the 100,000 odd civilian lives that nobody will talk about in print media or otherwise. After (recklessly) killing a population the next greatest crime is probably not owning up to it. It's all part of your same equation.

my 2 cents

 

[papasmerf]

Great post bayisle66, nice to see reflection through your eyes

Why I quoted you passage above is because you overlooked the high standard of Iraqi infrastructure of schools and hospitals that Iraq had before the 10 years of starvation and bombing. Hussain, tyrant that he was, build Iraq up to a model of modern day Arab achievement in terms of education, transportation, and medical facilities.

my 2 cents

I figure for your 2 coppers you will provide undisputable evidence?


What is that? It is Biased? Damn how come I suspected that?

BTW you are???????????????

 

[langeweile]

Why I quoted you passage above is because you overlooked the high standard of Iraqi infrastructure of schools and hospitals that Iraq had before the 10 years of starvation and bombing. Hussain, tyrant that he was, build Iraq up to a model of modern day Arab achievement in terms of education, transportation, and medical facilities.
my 2 cents

Adolf Hitler has brought Germany out of depression and has rebuild it from the failed ruins of the Weimarer Republic
He build Germany in to the shinning model of efficency in Europe..so what if he killed a few jews in the process.
C'mon Mcluhan you are smarter than that...

 

[maxweber]

Adolf Hitler has brought Germany out of depression and has rebuild it from the failed ruins of the Weimarer Republic
He build Germany in to the shinning model of efficency in Europe..so what if he killed a few jews in the process.
C'mon Mcluhan you are smarter than that...

Hitler only fixed or improved such areas of the civilian infrastructure as showed military use or potential, such as the Autobahn. The standard of living initially rose in Germany through the increased employment demanded by militarization and rearmament, and some mephistophelean debt refinancing by finance minister Schacht. Through the late 30s, however, it declined steadily. In short, Hitler bought guns instead of butter.

MW

 

[langeweile]

And to think a few of us actually bothered to listen to your whining about your wife's vocational difficulties. Like you were actually some kind of a fellow human concerned about his family. But now you're sitting there, applauding the prospect of Iraq being cheated out of its only resource and its only chance to finance some kind of recovery from this madness. What the fuck is wrong with you? I know that D's link wasn't necessarily the last word on what will finally happen to Iraq's oil but your selfish response about gasoline prices is one of the most insensitive and disgusting posts I've had the misfortune to see. You obviously don't give a flying fuck about what has happened to those people. Just yourself and your gas tank. Fuck you!

No reason to get huffy here. In a way I was joking with a serious undertone.

we pretend to care, but we don't do anything about it. Our economies have consistently increased their use of crude, and God forbid the prices on the pumps go up. The amount of whining and moaning about gasoline prices is a national sport.
We all want cheaper gas. Don't believe me? Go and look at the lines at your local gas station when the price drops by 2 pennies for a day.

So before you jump on me and take the moral high ground, what have you done lately to help the situation...other than the things that been forced upon you by higher costs?

Have you bought a hybrid car?
Have you checked your insuation on your house lately?
Have you brought your own cup to Tim Hortons lately, to cut down on the use of plastic and styrofaom?
Have you stopped using plastic bags?
Or any other plastic products?
When was the last time you checked your insulation in the attic?
Are you buying clothes with natural fibers?

Well i could go on forever and ever. Truth is we (including me) are easy to complain about the high usage of oil and it's cost related to it, but are VERY reluctant toi change. especially when it requires some sacrifice.

We all have sacred cows that we don't dare to touch.

etc..etc...

 

[langeweile]

Hitler only fixed or improved such areas of the civilian infrastructure as showed military use or potential, such as the Autobahn. The standard of living initially rose in Germany through the increased employment demanded by militarization and rearmament, and some mephistophelean debt refinancing by finance minister Schacht. Through the late 30s, however, it declined steadily. In short, Hitler bought guns instead of butter.

MW

and your point is???

 

[maxweber]

and your point is???

Right, I forgot what the level of literacy is around here. I was disputing the validity of the comparison of Saddam and Hitler, based on the standard of living in their countries. I don't know much about Iraq's standard of living, other than the oft-repeated claims that UN sanctions in the 90s, supposedly combined with Saddam's profligate weapons spending, led to appalling privation. And even that may be bogus. If Saddam spent so much on weapons, why did it take about fifteen minutres to invade and overthrow him? And the 500k children who supposedly died of starvation due to sanctions could be entirely bogus, mere propaganda. Or the actual number could be three times that. At this point, I have no clue, so I'm not prepared to speculate.
The standard of living in Nazi Germany, however, has been well researched. The claim that Hitler was a kind of militaristic FDR is demonstrably false. So, too, the idea that there was any socialism to speak of in "national socialism." There was about as much of this as there is Christianity in Pat Robertson.
MW

 

[langeweile]

Right, I forgot what the level of literacy is around here. I was disputing the validity of the comparison of Saddam and Hitler, based on the standard of living in their countries. I don't know much about Iraq's standard of living, other than the oft-repeated claims that UN sanctions in the 90s, supposedly combined with Saddam's profligate weapons spending, led to appalling privation. And even that may be bogus. If Saddam spent so much on weapons, why did it take about fifteen minutres to invade and overthrow him? And the 500k children who supposedly died of starvation due to sanctions could be entirely bogus, mere propaganda. Or the actual number could be three times that. At this point, I have no clue, so I'm not prepared to speculate.
The standard of living in Nazi Germany, however, has been well researched. The claim that Hitler was a kind of militaristic FDR is demonstrably false. So, too, the idea that there was any socialism to speak of in "national socialism." There was about as much of this as there is Christianity in Pat Robertson.
MW

I wasn't comparing standards of living at all.
My point was, how can you even think that Saddam was good for his people and completely ignore the fact, that he has slaughtered his own people?
Geez have you completely been blinded by your distaste for the USA, that you can ignore such an important point.

Every time somebody here on this boards says, how much worse of Iraq is today, is completely ignoring the facts of his brutal regime.
How come most here ignore what the guy did, for the sake of making their case against the Iraq invasion? Convinience? Stupidity? Ignorance?

Aside from the fact that you agree with the US foreign policy or not, why are you so reluctant to acknowledge on basic fact...HE WAS A DICTATOR..very much in the same league as Adolf, Mussolini, Stalin etc..etc..

 

[danmand]

I wasn't comparing standards of living at all.
My point was, how can you even think that Saddam was good for his people and completely ignore the fact, that he has slaughtered his own people?
Geez have you completely been blinded by your distaste for the USA, that you can ignore such an important point.

Every time somebody here on this boards says, how much worse of Iraq is today, is completely ignoring the facts of his brutal regime.
How come most here ignore what the guy did, for the sake of making their case against the Iraq invasion? Convinience? Stupidity? Ignorance?

Aside from the fact that you agree with the US foreign policy or not, why are you so reluctant to acknowledge on basic fact...HE WAS A DICTATOR..very much in the same league as Adolf, Mussolini, Stalin etc..etc..

Given that Hussein was an awful president, that hardly is a reason for invading a sovereign country, especially by the USA who has propped up many dictatorial regimes around the world, (including Hussein) and is leaving many other terrible regimes alone. Why not invade Zimbabwe? no oil there?

So maybe we should discount the idea that the reason for the war was to rid the Iraqi people of Hussein.

 

[langeweile]

Given that Hussein was an awful president, that hardly is a reason for invading a sovereign country..

you are right this is debattable. it doesn't changes the fact that he was a dictator and has gased, raped and murdered his own people.

I am for once eternally thankful, that enough people saw wha tHitler did, and saved our sorry asses from him...

 

[slowpoke]

No reason to get huffy here. In a way I was joking with a serious undertone.

we pretend to care, but we don't do anything about it. Our economies have consistently increased their use of crude, and God forbid the prices on the pumps go up. The amount of whining and moaning about gasoline prices is a national sport.
We all want cheaper gas. Don't believe me? Go and look at the lines at your local gas station when the price drops by 2 pennies for a day.

So before you jump on me and take the moral high ground, what have you done lately to help the situation...other than the things that been forced upon you by higher costs?

Have you bought a hybrid car?
Have you checked your insuation on your house lately?
Have you brought your own cup to Tim Hortons lately, to cut down on the use of plastic and styrofaom?
Have you stopped using plastic bags?
Or any other plastic products?
When was the last time you checked your insulation in the attic?
Are you buying clothes with natural fibers?

Well i could go on forever and ever. Truth is we (including me) are easy to complain about the high usage of oil and it's cost related to it, but are VERY reluctant toi change. especially when it requires some sacrifice.

We all have sacred cows that we don't dare to touch.

etc..etc...

The conversation was about whether the Iraqis would get ripped off on the oil contracts or not. Full Stop. We weren't talking about the price YOU pay for gas. Or conservation back home. Or ecology. Or things I should be doing to help "the situation". Or any of the nonsense you've posted above. The conversation wasn't about YOU either - it was about Iraqis. Surely you can stop thinking about yourself and the price of gas long enough to remember the Iraqis - those long-suffering people who've taken such a shit kicking over the last decade and who are now in danger of being screwed out of their only resource.

 

[langeweile]

The conversation was about whether the Iraqis would get ripped off on the oil contracts or not. Full Stop. We weren't talking about the price YOU pay for gas. Or conservation back home. Or ecology. Or things I should be doing to help "the situation". Or any of the nonsense you've posted above. The conversation wasn't about YOU either - it was about Iraqis. Surely you can stop thinking about yourself and the price of gas long enough to remember the Iraqis - those long-suffering people who've taken such a shit kicking over the last decade and who are now in danger of being screwed out of their only resource.

I just believe that the Iraqis are smart enough not to be screwed. yes you are irght that they have suffered long enough. Although I believe it was for more than only a decade...
yes my remarks were insensitive, but not mean..stupid maybe..but never mean spirited.

 

[maxweber]

der Fuehrer's face?

I am for once eternally thankful, that enough people saw wha tHitler did, and saved our sorry asses from him...

That's, ah, not really what happened. Daladier, Chamberlain, and finally Stalin all cut unconscionable deals with him, and only declared war on him when he invaded Poland, invaded, or unilaterally declared war. NOBODY rose up on their hind legs, said the sumbitch was morally intolerable, and set out to kick his ass. As other posters have mentioned, this would have been illegal, in Hitler's case as in Saddam's. Being a lowlife motherfucker is not against international law, long as you confine it to your home country.

MW

 

[BiggieE]

.....so it's better to let Hussien kill and maim, as long as he only kills and maims Iraqis?......Now that's bad.....

 

[nervous]

What defines Ilegal

That's, ah, not really what happened. Daladier, Chamberlain, and finally Stalin all cut unconscionable deals with him, and only declared war on him when he invaded Poland, invaded, or unilaterally declared war. NOBODY rose up on their hind legs, said the sumbitch was morally intolerable, and set out to kick his ass. As other posters have mentioned, this would have been illegal, in Hitler's case as in Saddam's. Being a lowlife motherfucker is not against international law, long as you confine it to your home country.

MW

The fact that the UN Security Council voted against it seem like a joke. France invades countries all the time, they just don't ask first. China currently occupies Tibet, and Russia...well I could go on for hours. Let’s not use that useless body as a basis for anything.