What are YOU going to do to help crack down on sexual slavery?

[frankcastle]

Fuji,

The people who want to hear you have. At this point you're just arguing in circles with people who won't be swayed.

Bottomline is that if you went to a place that you thought used illigal aliens you could pass the info along to the police anonymously (e.g. using a phone that's not yours).

That's what clients could do. IF the wanted to is another story.....

 

[S.C. Joe]

Dialing 911 is faster and easier to remember than Fuji's cell phone number.

Fuji-you posted that you would never ever tell a SP your Treb handle or even say about a review board but you would just pass out your cell phone number to any SP you think seems to be acting kind of strange? Maybe you change you number often but if not what would happen if she like posted it on a CL ad for guy's.

Seems to me giving out your Treb handle would be easier for you to control who contacts you and it be easier for the SP to remember and not have to save it in a cell phone that she most likely does not have control of. A good pimp would just give her a different cell phone each day or even each date.

 

[fuji]

Frank - It's not illegal aliens that bother me, there are lots of those, it's the non-consensual, forced, intimidated part, whether they are illegal aliens (probably) or not. And you're right, I probably am going in circles with a few of these guys, but I think holding people's toes to the fire when they try and dodge what is plainly their responsibility is not always a bad thing.

S.C. -- The point is she's afraid to call 911 because she's been threatened and lied to probably with a bunch of BS by her abuser. If she wasn't, she would obviously just do that. The point of giving her my number is that I'm a non-threatening safe person she can talk to, who can tell her a non-BS version of what might happen if she called the police. As for giving my number, the agency/booker already has it, and I doubt women in this sort of situation much access to the internet anyway. They do have a phone, at least some of the time (when going to a call).

 

[S.C. Joe]

I got it--the locals should contact the police and ask to be put on the pay roll. Yep, you can then go see many girls-the police will pay for the dates-and if any young ladies are being abused they can contact you for help

Really, one would need to see the girls every week for a while before they trust you. I don't see how we here can make much of a difference.

The only thing I can think of is if anybody sees a girl who has marks on her body-like from being hit-contact the police right away and be honest how you met and seen her. If not in person, call a tip line where you need not to say who you are. I am sure now your call would be looked in to and followed up on.

 

[fuji]

Dude, where's you get this payroll stuff? I am talking about explaining to people what their rights and options are, and letting them do things for themselves. If it's bad enough or obvious enough I'd also call crime stoppers.

 

[wumpscut]

Fuji, at my old job as a clerk occasionally my boss would send in people to check out how I did my job. I never knew I was being "shopped" but found out later. Point is, your being a white knight isn't going to necessarily be trusted anyway. She might think you were sent by her boss to test her loyalty( may have been done to her already)
Other thing to consider is the odds you keep quoting, 80 murders in 4 million. Of those 80, how many were 1 person choosing to kill another that he considered to be a threat ? Odds aren't so good anymore are they. Become a problem for a organization of criminals involved in human trafficking and think they will scurry.... sounds like a risky proposition. I do think these fuckers enslaving woman are a blight that needs to be exterminated but crimestoppers or Wendy Leaver setting up a sting operation seems wiser than going head to head with these guys. Go ahead and call me a coward Fuji, fact is all you have done so far is SAY you would do this or that. Talk is cheap. When you have done something other than insult people with a opinion different than yours, thats when you can look down your nose at me.

 

[fuji]

Wump, I will tell her what her options are, what would happen if she went to the police, how it would likely work out. She need not say anything, only listen. If she wants to ask questions I will do my best to answer them. I am not going to force her to go to the police or even encourage her. I am only going to tell her what would happen if she did, and provide her with the information she would need to do so if she ever chooses to. These women have been lied to and abused--their continued captivity in part depends on them believing a bunch of bullshit their abusers have told them.

Honestly, responses like that come across as excuses to shirk responsibility, I am sorry if that sounds insulting, but unfortunately it's true.

The situation is this:

1. You are part of the reason why it is economically viable to do this to her

2. You are very likely the only person who can help

To not act under those circumstances is to fail as a human being.

 

[S.C. Joe]

I wish this thread would just die!

We are not the problem, people have been paying for sex forever just about and will still be long after we are gone. To say we have part of the problem is going too far.

Ex. Theres a gang of crooks robbing fancy homes in the area. So is it the gang or the fancy homes to blame? After all if everybody lived in a shack they would stop stealing from the fancy homes.

Thats what you are saying, we are to blame by seeing escorts and if nobody dated them, there be no problem.

Well theres always going to be fancy homes and people dating escorts. What needs to stop is the guys using the girls. Alarm systems have stop people-most people-from robbing those fancy homes, now something needs to be done to stop people from abusing these girls.

Us saying "call daddy" if you need to talk is not going to cut it. The police need to get more involved and check up on these girls. Let them do the dating-maybe just dinner dates-and let them try to help them. We are just going to screw up, most likely.

Again, if I see a girl who has marks on her body, I will call "crimestoppers" and report her name and what company I called. Thats about all I can do to help out.

 

[fuji]

SC, you don't need to justify escorts to me, I'm just as involved there as anyone. My point is that we are not bystanders, we are involved, and as a result, can't claim to have nothing to do with it.

I mean really, if you have sex with a woman who, as it turns out, did not really consent to have sex with you, can you honestly say you play no role??? We ARE talking about non-consensual sex here. The word usually applied to that is rape.

Yes, you had many reasons to believe that she consented, so I doubt it cuts it as rape under the criminal code. On the other hand often the legal expectation is explicit confirmation of consent, not just assume it. Are you sure you've done everything reasonable to ensure consent??? If there's anything suspicious and you DON'T ask, just say it's not your problem, well, getting pretty close to actual legal rape at that point. If you have GOOD reason to suspect that she is being forced into having working as an escort and you have sex with her at that point it IS rape, legally and morally.

You have a moral duty, very possibly a legal duty, to make sure your escort that you are about to have sex with consents.

Second, it's not just that you are involved--it's also that you are very likely the ONLY person in a position to offer help. If she is cut off from everyone other than her abusers and her customers then you, her customer, are it in terms of people who can do anything about it.

Just saying "it's a police problem, none of my business" is lame. The police need the support of the community to do a good job, and that's you. That reaction is just like the guys in bad areas who see a crime and then refuse to co-operate with the police. Same lame excuse. Same lame result.

"That's about all i can do to help out" is a cop out, it's not all you can do, it's not all you have a duty to do.

 

[fuji]

Other thing to consider is the odds you keep quoting, 80 murders in 4 million. Of those 80, how many were 1 person choosing to kill another that he considered to be a threat ? Odds aren't so good anymore are they.

Actually most of those murders had nothing whatever to do with crime, a lot of them are spouses, friends or family who had a falling out, and so on. Only in 17% of murders in 2006 did the victim know the killer through some criminal relationship. So, even rarer. You watch too much TV, perhaps TV news, which pastes this stuff all over the place so you get the impression that it is a lot more common than it actually is.

Stop scaring yourself, you have a better chance of getting killed by your wife.

Realistically even if they did figure out what you did they would likely just threaten you, and since you've already done everything you're required to do, you can walk away, so it'll end there. On the other hand you wouldn't want to instigate some sort of confrontation with these guys--no point trying to be a hero, confrontation's a job for the police. You've done your duty if you pass on helpful information to the escort, and pass on whatever details you can to the police (anonymously if you like).

 

[Keebler Elf]

The responsibility is simple: if you encounter an under age girl, then it's your responsibility to report the agency to the police. Period. To do anything else is to rationalize away your responsibility.

Someone made the rationalization that if you report it some fellow hobbyist could get caught in a bust. That's such chicken shit bullshit. Someone else could report it and the same thing could happen. Do your duty and report it. The police aren't interested in the guy who does the right thing and tips them off about underage girls. They're interested in the sick fucks who keep seeing the girls and don't report it.

Now, the tough part is knowing if she's underage or not but I'm sure there are situations where it comes out (e.g., she could tell you, she could inadvertently tell you her birthday, etc.).

If you know an agency is pimping out underage girls and you do nothing about it, you're just as guilty as they are.

 

[Keebler Elf]

Just saying "it's a police problem, none of my business" is lame.

Yeah, that's just a chicken shit, self-centred attitude. Shameful. That's exactly the type of attitude that allows crime to fester and spread.

 

[S.C. Joe]

Now you are claim those girls were having non-consensual sex with their clients!

No way, maybe somebody was pushing them in to going out on an outcall but by them going there by them selfs, accepting the money offer, most likely undressing herself and then giving a CBJ or a BBBJ how the heck can anybody say that is non-consensual.

Another way this can be look at is after the girls have done many guys, they then might feel "dirty", "ashamed" and regret what they have been doing. So now they get it in their head that they were being "forced" to do it. There was "nothing" they could do. It was not my fault, it was my "boyfriend" idea.

Well since Fuji you are stuck on looking at this from the police point of view, lets turn the tables and say just what IF those guys are no more guilty than any other escort company owners. Now we are looking at exworkers who feel they company was unfair to them.

We know the police for the most part, do not like strip club owners, escort company owners. Maybe the police are wrong. These girls did willing do escorting but now feel they should have been getting a bigger cut of the fees than they were. Or they feel "dirty" and now want to play victim.

Think about it from a defense lawyer way.

 

[imsorry]

If you're drowning Mr. imsorry, don't count on me to toss you a line.

no need, im doing fine

 

[fuji]

Now you are claim those girls were having non-consensual sex with their clients!

Yes. Absolutely, that is EXACTLY what is being claimed.

No way, maybe somebody was pushing them in to going out on an outcall but by them going there by them selfs, accepting the money offer, most likely undressing herself and then giving a CBJ or a BBBJ how the heck can anybody say that is non-consensual.

Because she is only doing those things because of threats made to her by her abusers.

Another way this can be look at is after the girls have done many guys, they then might feel "dirty", "ashamed" and regret what they have been doing.

Lots of people regret lots of things but it isn't sexual slavery, rape, etc., if you're regretting something you did of your own free will.

The point here is the lack of free will. These women have been told if they don't engage in prostitution they will be beaten, their family will be beaten, etc., the only thing separating it from rape is the possibility that the client has good reason to believe she's consented--i.e., he's been fooled into thinking she consented. However, if the client has any reason to think that she is doing it only because of threats and intimidation then it IS legally rape.

 

[imsorry]

Yes. Absolutely, that is EXACTLY what is being claimed.



Because she is only doing those things because of threats made to her by her abusers.



Lots of people regret lots of things but it isn't sexual slavery, rape, etc., if you're regretting something you did of your own free will.

The point here is the lack of free will. These women have been told if they don't engage in prostitution they will be beaten, their family will be beaten, etc., the only thing separating it from rape is the possibility that the client has good reason to believe she's consented--i.e., he's been fooled into thinking she consented. However, if the client has any reason to think that she is doing it only because of threats and intimidation then it IS legally rape.

you cant force anyone to do something they dont want to

 

[fuji]

you cant force anyone to do something they dont want to

I assume you are agreeing with me, and not, for example, claiming that women who are raped agreed to be raped.

Of course you CAN force someone to do something they don't want to, either physically, or by threatening to beat them if they don't do it, which is what the women in this case were allegedly subjected to in order to force them to have sex with clients.

Sexual slavery and rape have a lot in common, and if the client knows that it's sexual slavery, the sex is in fact rape. The only way it's not rape is if the client is fooled into thinking it was consensual so that he had no idea threats and/or beatings were involved, despite a best effort on his part to ensure that it was consensual.

 

[Fred Zed]

Put this in perspective, dude. She`s in YOUR place when you have this conversation with her, the door is locked, you are in private, no-one is spying on you. You can have a conversation with her without any risk. You can give her a phone number. She can decide to keep it, or not. Presumably she knows better than you or I do what her risk of getting caught with a number is. For example, she could save it in her phone and then deny know what it is, or stick the piece of paper somewhere they wouldn`t look--she`d know where.

There have been one or two cases known to https://terb.cc in recent years where
women claimed there were being coerced into working.
I do recall one case where a member of this site passed
on detailed info of his conversation with the lady in question.
With his permission we promptly passed on the info to the police.

IMO women who work in outcall agencies have plently of opportunity
to escape if they are being forced to work. My understanding is that some
of the agencies in the recently reported cases were primarily outcall. Also that they are small scale operations, so I was somewhat surprised by the
reference to "massive trafficking". When the case goes to court
it is possible that we will learn more about this. My feeling is that
the press reports are grossly exaggerated and oversensationalized.
I highly doubt that the police and/or the press will be able to demonstrate
evidence of "massive trafficking."

 

[baci2004]

My feeling is that
the press reports are grossly exaggerated and oversensationalized.
I highly doubt that the police and/or the press will be able to demonstrate
evidence of "massive trafficking."

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[fuji]

I agree they likely have lots of opportunities to escape, but I guess the worry is they've been fed a pack of lies about what will happen to them if they do, like, the police will arrest them and put them in jail then send them home, and so on.

This is why I think the most important thing you can do if you suspect something is to make sure the woman has an unbiased, realistic understanding of what would happen if she went to the police, and so on. They won't know about the extensive victim services programs, etc., etc.

These guys make a point of telling them horror stories and since they are from another country and may not speak much English they may really believe all that crap.

She might have everything she needs in order to escape other than the truth. The truth may really set her free.