What are YOU going to do to help crack down on sexual slavery?

[fuji]

By now I'm sure you've all seen the article in The Star about how some Eastern European women were allegedly smuggled into Canada, held captive, abused, and ultimately forced to work as escorts. The article in the paper says serving customers who responded to advertisements on the internet.

That's us, we're the customers who respond to advertisements on the internet. We are involved here.

Every one here who responds to ads on the internet, on Craigslist, on Eye Magazine, has some chance of coming into contact with women in this sort of situation.

That makes YOU (and me) potentially the first normal, reasonable, and potentially helpful people these victimized women will encounter. We should be their first and best hope for justice. You can turn a blind eye, or you can open your eyes wide, see what is going on, and do something about it. I know the police and others probably view us as part of the problem--we ARE part of the problem--but we can also be part of the solution.

It will be MUCH harder for this kind of crime to happen in Toronto if there are wary clients on the lookout, asking women how they are, probing whether the agencies they deal with are ethical, and helping to report, and ultimately incarcerate, anyone who is stepping over the line like this.

I don't think we should sit back and watch how this story plays out and simply go, "Gee, hope I never wind up calling a place like this".

Just the opposite, I think you should be HOPING to call a place like this, so that you can identify it for what it is and help shut it down.

Are you part of the problem, or part of the solution?

 

[S.C. Joe]

How did those ladies get in to Canada ? Think it was by fake passports. In the USA they have been cracking down on those. When is Canada going to get high tech and check those passports out at the border.

The police better not going saying its our fault. We did not let those ladies in. If anybody's to blame, they are.

 

[fuji]

I'm not saying it's our fault. I am saying it is our responsibility.

Partly it is our responsibility because we create the demand, and it's that demand that creates the opportunity for crime. I think we have a responsibility to ensure the money we are spending isn't being used to victimize someone. Worse, unwittingly participating in the victimization.

Mostly it is our responsibility because we are the only ones in a position to help. We are the people these women meet, talk to, and interact with. We are better positioned than anyone else to ask them how they really are, to notice problems, to have a conversation with them about what their real options are, what sort of help might be available.

Nobody else is in as good a position to do that as we are, and if someone is in trouble, and you are the only one who can help, then in my books, you have a duty.

 

[S.C. Joe]

Yes theres always some who could care less who the ladies are. Some even like underage girls. We had a federal lawyer here from FL fly all the way to MI to date a 5 year old girl. He thought he was online with her mom and it was a cop. He hung himself in jail while waiting for trail. That was just 6 months ago.

But when I call ABC escort company, I just have to trust those ladies are in Canada legally. How am I am to know if shes being made to "work off her debt". I see she has her own phone, calls out after 5 mins saying things are going good. Not sure what I can do. Of course if she looked under 19 I would not date her-I know its 18 but 19 is for drinking so thats where I draw the line.

 

[Aardvark154]

That makes YOU (and me) potentially the first normal, reasonable, and potentially helpful people these victimized women will encounter. We should be their first and best hope for justice. You can turn a blind eye, or you can open your eyes wide, see what is going on, and do something about it. I know the police and others probably view us as part of the problem--we ARE part of the problem--but we can also be part of the solution.

It will be MUCH harder for this kind of crime to happen in Toronto if there are wary clients on the lookout, asking women how they are, probing whether the agencies they deal with are ethical, and helping to report, and ultimately incarcerate, anyone who is stepping over the line like this.

Of course it seemingly is much easier to run this sort of immoral operation incall than outcall. Secondly even as you say talking to a woman about life, where she is from, your travels in their country etc. . .

 

[fuji]

But when I call ABC escort company, I just have to trust those ladies are in Canada legally. How am I am to know if shes being made to "work off her debt".

Ask her? If you get a funny feeling give her your number privately, tell her if she ever feels like she is in trouble you are a phone call away, and willing to help.

 

[DATYdude]

Guys, keep in mind that one of the great "advances" of the cold war era is the use of psychology to control people. These techniques and plain violence and the threat of violence are used so that the SPs don't need to be forcibly kept in a brothel. So outcall/incall it makes no difference.

At the same time, it's impossible to know from SP to SP which ones are more or less forced into doing what they don't want to or never expected to.

You might want to ask why it is that reporting this to the police is so rare, do you think it's because the problem is isolated?

Best policy if you actually care (many of us don't) is to stay away from the Russian/EE agencies as well as the Asian agencies (especially the lower-end ones).

I'd bet that if the SPs are imports they are being brought here under shady circumstances. I suppose this would go for the Latina girls too but I get the sense that they are more aware of why they're coming here and don't experience the same shit as the EE girls do. I could be deluding myself.

If you just CAN'T stop yourself from seeing EE girls or going to places to fuck girls who you think are coerced into selling sex (I mean not just attracted by the money), then maybe you can help just a *bit* by not being an asshole and by tipping generously. Let's face it, the demand for girls like Bobbi, Dominique, Diana etc... isn't going away.

 

[DATYdude]

Fuji I think your plan of actually offering to report these places to the police is far-fetched. These SPs are scared and you are dealing with some pretty brutal people. And behind the people who they arrest are other brutal people.

 

[fuji]

I'd bet that if the SPs are imports they are being brought here under shady circumstances.

I've seen a lot of SP's, including at higher end agencies, who are plainly here on some sort of student visa that does not entitle them to work. That is "shady" by some definitions, but it does not bother me one bit so long as the SP is happy with what she is doing. Maybe it runs afoul of some immigration law, but nobody's human rights are being violated.

On the other hand if someone is working as an SP only because of implied or express threats of violence or other harm that is a different kind of shady.

As for this stuff about being too chicken to go to the police or intervene because you are afraid of the brutal people hiding behind the curtains--at what point are you any different than the culture of silence around Jane and Finch?

Does it really cost you that much risk to give someone a little bit of advice and/or your phone number and/or call in an anonymous or semi-anonymous tip? I'm not suggesting you take these women in and shelter them, I'm suggesting you help them learn what their rights are, what their options are, so they realize some of the threats are BS and that they do have choices. You could give them Wendy Leavar's number for example. You could tell them stories about how other agencies got busted and the women got a fair break.

What are you doing seeing an escort anyway if you don't have any balls? I thought the clients were supposedly men.

 

[DATYdude]

I don't like the implication of the statement. Some of us "men" have everything to lose by pissing off the Russian Mob...

 

[eldoguy]

Pissing off The Eastern Mob

See the movie Eastern Promises, see what happens!

 

[imsorry]

hey as long as i get what i need , who cares

 

[fuji]

I don't like the implication of the statement. Some of us "men" have everything to lose by pissing off the Russian Mob...

I think if even 10% of clients started asking pointed questions, making sure women knew their options, the Russian Mob would find it a little overwhelming and would go crawl under some other rock--or at least, stick to using women who consent.

 

[S.C. Joe]

We can only do so much and not too much at all. The Fed government needs to open up more places where women can turn to for help. Maybe they need to try to check out some of these C.L ads. I believed this ring was busted by 1 of the abused women walking in to a police station. Nobody went in and "saved" her.

The problem gets that 80% of the ladies working want nothing to do with the police. I recall asking one young lady how much in taxes does she pay, she laughed and said nothing. So if they go place to place, just because the girls might not want to speak with them, does not mean they are being abused.

I seen another lady once who had some bad scratch marks on her chest right above her breasts. She told me her cats were fighting and she got hurt breaking it up. I did not believe her but dam if I was going to call the police and say "come check this lady out". She had a phone, was calling out on it. I did ask if she was beaten up and thats how the cat story came out. Now you got me wondering how it really happen.

 

[red]

if they decriminalized the industry, then this would not happen

 

[fuji]

Here is my plan:

Small talk --- So how did you get into this work? Do you like it? Is the owner a nice guy, treat you ok? I heard about some places where they don't treat the women well, the owners all got busted and the women wound up staying in Canada in exchange for helping the police. That kind of situation makes me mad, I wish I could have helped.

Later on leave my number.

If anyone ever calls me, I will at most meet them in a coffee shop, give them Wendy Leavar's (spelling?) phone number, tell them that they have rights, and otherwise stay out of it. Probably make my own anonymous call to the cops at that point.

Yeah I'm sticking my neck out a bit. I have balls. If the Russian Mob wants to come after me just for talking let them, but I bet they won't.

 

[S.C. Joe]

Oh they come after you, if they know who and where you are. These are really no good guys running these places. They hurt the girls, why not you ?

 

[fuji]

If they want to come after me they have to stick their necks out a little too, I have more resources and I'm more aware of my rights than the girls they beat up. I know at least a little about who they are too, if they're responding to me giving my # to their girl, so they'll have to think about whether they want to start something with someone capable and somewhat connected (as are any of us born here).

That said if I started actively targetting their agency I am sure they would come after me--but just for passing my number on to one of their girls?

Cockroaches don't like sunlight, I don't think they would crawl out from their rock far enough to bother with me unless I got a lot more involved than a phone call and coffee.

 

[DATYdude]

***Fuji hears knock on door, detects faint smell of vodka from hallway***

I'm all for justice Fuji, if you can help out, do it.

If they want to come after me they have to stick their necks out a little too, I have more resources and I'm more aware of my rights than the girls they beat up. I know at least a little about who they are too, they'll have to think about whether they want to start something with someone capable and somewhat connected (as are any of us born here).

That said if I started actively targetting their agency I am sure they would come after me--but just for passing my number on to one of their girls?

Cockroaches don't like sunlight, I don't think they would crawl out from their rock far enough to bother with me unless I got a lot more involved than a phone call and coffee.

 

[fuji]

You know what I think? I think if even 10% of customers start routinely asking these kinds of questions they'll get pretty uncomfortable and scurry away.

If I'm the only guy in the city who is asking girls if their workplace is safe and treats them OK, then they can come and target me.

If we all routinely ask those kinds of questions what are their options really but to hire only consenting escorts?