Why shouldn't those businesses and services pay the full cost of the road they use, and pass the cost on to their customers? Right now some products are cheaper than they should be, because part of their cost is subsidized from general tax revenues.
War on Public Transit
- Thread starter Brill
- Start date
No they are put in areas where there are a lot of seniors to take them to the mall and activity centers
Not really.
Toronto offers everything under the sun. The burbs? They offer dust and wind and bullshit.
You can go on Expedia and get a room at the Westin Harbourfront Castle for $103 per night. You'll pay more than that to stay in Godforesaken land by the aiport.
No it's not.
You have to buy, maintain, finance, insure the vehicle.
Average cost = 60 cents per km. See my previous post with a link to the CAA site which breaks down costs per km for typical vehicles.
No car on the road today (even a smart car) is cheaper than public transit.
The cost of a metro pass is the same as auto insurance if you have a 5 star rating !
@fuji: bay and king is only 400m away from kensington. You mean to tell me that it isn't "close enough" tothe heart of the city and that you wouldn't walk the distance to save on parking? its 400m dude, not 4km. Its a 10 min walk at most.
Besides, there is no shopping at Bay and King that I am interested in. The restaurants are over priced and the place is a ghost town after 5pm.
Besides, there is no shopping at Bay and King that I am interested in. The restaurants are over priced and the place is a ghost town after 5pm.
I agree, Canada lags way behind the rest of the western world in so far as green energy and public transit. The government way underfunds public transit in Canada and therefore the TTC is one of the most expensive and inefficient systems in the western world.
Go to any country in western Europe and you will find rail links to airports and public transportation systems that run like clockwork, whether it be Madrid, Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam, Frankfurt or London to name a few. Fast TGV train service in most countries even make it disadvantageos to fly between cities in Europe.
It's time governments here woke up and showed more vision. This is after all 2011, not 1970.
More affordable fares for people who need to use public transit for work, seniors and students as well as more rapid rail lines, improved and expanded GO Tansit service, would see many more in the GTA leave their cars at home. Less pollution, less gridlock in a time of higher than ever gas prices. Sounds good to me.
I am with you on that one Musketeer and Doug. I have travelled extensivly across Europe and find their subway and light rail system to be clean, fast, efficient and far superior to anything in North America. The big problem I think in North America and Toronto for the most part is the short sightedness of the politicians who lack any depth of vision for the future. Most mayors know they are only going to be around one or two terms so they take what they can and then either become consultants for very lucrative $ or try to kick up to the federal level of politics. Much like Ford is going to try to do when he is done fucking over Toronto.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this.. but all this anger over the possible fare hike, and how it was a "war" on public transit . . . has anyone bothered to mention it was the TTC'S idea for the fare Hike ?
A more apt title for the thread may have been public transit, attempted suicide.
A more apt title for the thread may have been public transit, attempted suicide.
there isn't a transit rider in the world who pays the full price of that ride. TTC is in fact one of the least subsidized systems in the world but that ride actually costs a least double what you are paying now. That $1 Paris ride is nice but the actual cost is probably closer to $10. Brampton, Vaughan and other outlying areas subsidize their transit systems more than Toronto (per passenger) because their ridership is much lower. The last time I actually saw the numbers (a few years back) it was about $3.50 for a Toronto rider and about $4.50 for a York Region Rider. That means for every paying passenger on the TTC, the government is paying an additional $3.50 per rider and even more outside the Toronto area. I'm sure the cost has gone up since. At the end of the day all taxpayers are subsidizing the transit rider whether they live in Toronto or not.
You plainly don't know downtown Toronto. The shortest route on Google maps from the closest point in Kensington Market to Bay & King is 2.2 kilometers
Google suggests it's a 26 minute walk...
Most transit systems—but not Toronto's—charge by distance. Forced to compete with the free city roads and streets out-of-town leechers use to drive to the services and jobs their 'cheap' suburbs can't support, the TTC dumped zone fares long ago.
Time to register Toronto tax-paying vehicles (and obviously, to tax them) and charge the non-taxpaying ones on a various sorts of per-use bases. And either go back to distance-pricing on transit, or make it as free as roads are now.
Actually, there are more 416 commuters to the 905 than there are 905s to the 416. This reversal occurred several years ago. That's why it seems to be rush hour all day long regardless of direction. I am not against transit or car these are just facts.
Also everyone is paying to subsidize TTC riders whether they live in Toronto or Thunderbay that's just the way it is.
Can anyone tell me why Toronto has so many issues with TTC? Union? fare hikes? ridiculous monthly pass fees?
Whereas the equivalent Montreal pass is about $60/month (half the price)? In Montreal, you see "ALL classes" of people riding their Metro, at all times of the day! Also, geographically, Montreal's subway/underground system appears to cover a greater percentage of population and square miles that even TTC!
Are there better subsidies in Quebec? Because it is Quebec vs Ontario? What should Toronto do, to get on par with Montreal?
Whereas the equivalent Montreal pass is about $60/month (half the price)? In Montreal, you see "ALL classes" of people riding their Metro, at all times of the day! Also, geographically, Montreal's subway/underground system appears to cover a greater percentage of population and square miles that even TTC!
Are there better subsidies in Quebec? Because it is Quebec vs Ontario? What should Toronto do, to get on par with Montreal?
Since you asked.
Quebec — Montreal
The province dedicates a surcharge of 1.5¢/litre of fuel sold within the territory and $30/vehicle registered to a provincial authority, the Agence métropolitaine des transports (AMT), to fund regional transit agencies. AMT also has authority to levy a surcharge on parking but has not yet done so.
Quebec — 6 other cities
The province transfers revenues from a $30/vehicle surcharge in each city's region for transit use.
The figure may be actually higher today. I cannot find a date on this report.
The fact that you're uneducated on the facts shouldn't be my problem.
Let's start with the supposition that every road-lane-kilometre costs about $5000 annually to maintain (a figure that's likely low by half, but we'll start there). Now let's talk about that 30 cents you pay (again, ballpark) per litre of gasoline. Taxes which have to cover a whole lot more than just the road maintenance: the taxes also have to pay for the fire services to clean up after accidents (where the driver at fault cannot be billed), for police and ambulance response, for the traffic cameras and monitoring station infrastructure and salaries to keep the roads moving at peak efficiency, and so much more. Your 30c has to cover the costs for about 12km of road, by volume of traffic, meaning that even your local residential street has to be very highly utilized (about 1000 cars per day per km) before you're coming even close to paying for your costs.
I don't think you're anywhere near that. So either learn what the costs are, or stop complaining.
