No it shows that that states (which for various reasons tend to be more responsive to the electorate) are fed-up with election fraud, and further with the failure of the federal government to crack down on those illegally in the U.S.
Voter ID pattern is emerging.
- Thread starter rld
- Start date
So Fuji if I know of a bunch of people who would like to live and work in Canada I should encourage them to illegally cross into Canada?So now you are justifying the national policy of having twelve million oppressed illegal workers who lack the fundamental rights that all other Americans have. You've embraced apartheid. You're trying to justify the unjustifiable.
Apartheid?So now you are justifying the national policy of having twelve million oppressed illegal workers who lack the fundamental rights that all other Americans have. You've embraced apartheid. You're trying to justify the unjustifiable.
Why not do it honestly, with work visas, and at least grant them the rights your constitution affords everybody else? Why divide the population into a ruling class with rights and an oppressed class without rights?
Funny that you think this qualifies as apartheid while......
It's similar to the situation of Palestinians in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan.Apartheid?
Funny that you think this qualifies as apartheid while......
The problem us that they don't actually eliminate the illegal workers, there's too much demand for them. They just discriminate against then in increasingly harsh ways, which only serves to increase their vulnerability and make it easier for their employers to exploit them.No it shows that that states (which for various reasons tend to be more responsive to the electorate) are fed-up with election fraud, and further with the failure of the federal government to crack down on those illegally in the U.S.
Last edited:
How is it that after all these pages you still haven't grasped the point that the issue is the US has built an economy around having illegals?So Fuji if I know of a bunch of people who would like to live and work in Canada I should encourage them to illegally cross into Canada?
The employers who use these workers would probably disagree with you. Fugi is correct on this. 12 million illegal immigrants didn't happen by accident. At some level there was tacit acceptance and the government looked the other way. This has been going on for decades. If it were to suddenly stop, and all these people magically returned from where they came, the agricultural industry would collapse, also with negative effects in construction all the way down to very well to do people paying their house cleaners under the table.Fuji, They shouldn't be in the U.S.A. period. Everyone else (NAFTA exceptions) needs to have been granted a visa to work in the U.S.
This is how things work, and in alot of ways the various powers that be want to leave it alone.
Yup. There's also another million legal American workers employed providing services to the illegals and roughly 150 billion in economic activity tied to their labor.The employers who use these workers would probably disagree with you. Fugi is correct on this. 12 million illegal immigrants didn't happen by accident. At some level there was tacit acceptance and the government looked the other way. This has been going on for decades. If it were to suddenly stop, and all these people magically returned from where they came, the agricultural industry would collapse, also with negative effects in construction all the way down to very well to do people paying their house cleaners under the table.
This is how things work, and in alot of ways the various powers that be want to leave it alone.
To the extent that illegal labor is institutionalized it's a developing form of apartheid.
I would say if anything it resembles somewhat what has happened whenever we have had an influx of poor immigrants. It's just never been this disorganized before with such a look the other way approach. I don't think the recent illegal immigrants are in as bad a situation as legal immigrants were in the early 20th century. But they are entirely in limbo, and if government had wanted to do something about it they could have done it a hell of alot sooner.Yup. There's also another million legal American workers employed providing services to the illegals and roughly 150 billion in economic activity tied to their labor.
To the extent that illegal labor is institutionalized it's a developing form of apartheid.
Many times I feel we haven't advanced as much as we like to pretend.
In another thread, you accused Chomsky of using fuzzy logic, making a vaguely plausible interpretation then later claiming it's fact. That is exactly what you are doing with 'national policy' claims.So now you are justifying the national policy of having twelve million oppressed illegal workers who lack the fundamental rights that all other Americans have. You've embraced apartheid. You're trying to justify the unjustifiable.
Why not do it honestly, with work visas, and at least grant them the rights your constitution affords everybody else? Why divide the population into a ruling class with rights and an oppressed class without rights?
Simply put, life is pretty good in the US and other people do what they can to take advantage of it, even if that means forgoing some rights that legal citizens get. At the same time, Americans are taking advantage of of cheap labour. Seems mutually symbiotic to me.
Seems pretty cold to me. Meanwhile the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. You and I have different definitions of symbiotic.At the same time, Americans are taking advantage of of cheap labour. Seems mutually symbiotic to me.
Actually the poor get richer and the rich get richer. The illegal immigrant are still doing better off in the US than they would be back home. No it is not an equitable distribution of wealth but it is an improvement.Seems pretty cold to me. Meanwhile the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. You and I have different definitions of symbiotic.
There is nothing whatsoever fuzzy. You have clearly and indisputably institutionalized illegal labour in the US. Whether you've done so to such an extent that it is apartheid we can debate but it's certainly well on the way there.In another thread, you accused Chomsky of using fuzzy logic, making a vaguely plausible interpretation then later claiming it's fact. That is exactly what you are doing with 'national policy' claims.
There you go again, justifying a system that provides different rights to different people in America. A nice symbiotic relationship between the ruling class and the disenfranchised.Simply put, life is pretty good in the US and other people do what they can to take advantage of it, even if that means forgoing some rights that legal citizens get. At the same time, Americans are taking advantage of of cheap labour. Seems mutually symbiotic to me.
South Africans felt the same way about apartheid once.
Sure, but I haven't. Maybe you would like to take a stab at explaining how institutionalized illegal labor differs from apartheid.Do you realize that making ridiculous comparisons just undermines your arguments?
I'll go first: Apartheid in South Africa was based on race, while this is based on immigration status. Your turn, how else does it differ?
Horseshit. If you're only talking about illegal immigrants, obviously. If you're talking about rich and poor between American citizens, you're full of it. The poor are not getting richer, at best they are stagnant. We are slowly dismantling the middle class in this country. Give me a bloody break. The middle class is dying in this country, and in the last 60 years, it's what made us.Actually the poor get richer and the rich get richer.
South Africa had an official policy based on race. At most you could argue that the US doesn't adequately enforce it's immigration policies and what is under discussion has to do purely with citizenship status, not race.Sure, but I haven't. Maybe you would like to take a stab at explaining how institutionalized illegal labor differs from apartheid.
I'll go first: Apartheid in South Africa was based on race, while this is based on immigration status. Your turn, how else does it differ?
Pretty significant difference if you ask me.
