villaneuva to the bucks
- Thread starter plyrs99
- Start date
Yup, it's official:
"We are sorry to see Charlie leave, but getting better comes at a cost," Raptors president and general manager Bryan Colangelo said. "T.J. Ford's best attributes, quickness and playmaking, are a perfect fit for our team."
From a strictly talent swap, it's a very equal deal, but I hate to see anyone who actually liked being a Raptor and loved the city of Toronto as much as he supposedly did get moved.
For those not too familiar, Ford is a 23 year old point guard, average 12.2 ppg and 6.6 apg.
"We are sorry to see Charlie leave, but getting better comes at a cost," Raptors president and general manager Bryan Colangelo said. "T.J. Ford's best attributes, quickness and playmaking, are a perfect fit for our team."
From a strictly talent swap, it's a very equal deal, but I hate to see anyone who actually liked being a Raptor and loved the city of Toronto as much as he supposedly did get moved.
For those not too familiar, Ford is a 23 year old point guard, average 12.2 ppg and 6.6 apg.
I'm sorry to see Charlie V go, he was a good energy guy coming off the bench and I was really liked his game. I don't know much about T.J. Ford, but I remember a Raps/Bucks game in which he penetrated at will and had our PG's running in circles. Sad to see a good guy leave, but happy that we filled a glaring need. Nice move BC!
Oh for sure. On a separate note, with CV leaving town I thought a good replacement on the free agent market might be Drew Gooden. Similar to CV in stature, not much of an outside shooter but a beast on the boards.drd said:
1) The Italian is our replacement for Charlie...Very similar game except much more potential...Hopefully he can contribute to our perimeter game...
2) I love T.J. Ford...Great Trade for both teams...T.J. is everybit as young as CV...
3) Nothing is barring Charlie from returning to Toronto at some point via Free Agency...I'm sure he understands how important this was for Toronto...
4) B.C. is an amazing GM...He just makes Rob Babcock look like a retard... I mean seriously, the moves he's made has really raised interest in our team as well...
5) Its pretty much official we're a run N' gun team like the Suns...
6) We should be very pleased with Rob Babcock drafting CV as he panned to have a high value on the trade market....The one thing he did right...
7) Bye bye Mike James...Go back to your precious Houston you ass...
2) I love T.J. Ford...Great Trade for both teams...T.J. is everybit as young as CV...
3) Nothing is barring Charlie from returning to Toronto at some point via Free Agency...I'm sure he understands how important this was for Toronto...
4) B.C. is an amazing GM...He just makes Rob Babcock look like a retard... I mean seriously, the moves he's made has really raised interest in our team as well...
5) Its pretty much official we're a run N' gun team like the Suns...
6) We should be very pleased with Rob Babcock drafting CV as he panned to have a high value on the trade market....The one thing he did right...
7) Bye bye Mike James...Go back to your precious Houston you ass...
mann....i loved charlie V's game! gonna miss his play and style with the raptors....was hoping for a CB, CV, AB frontcourt but i cant complain getting TJ Ford in return (he's an amzing pg)...and i hope we can get CV in a year or two (crossing my fingers)....so he;s the projected raptor line:
the FAB-5:
TJ Ford, Morris Peterson, A. Barganini, CB, Nesterovic
Bench
Pape, Barrette, Tucker, Humpries, Graham, Calderson, Ukic (if he aint in span.), Alvin (depending on his contact), d.martin,
Possibilities?
Drew Gooden (sign & trade for mike jammmmessss), jay williams (make a solid PG if alvin's contact is terminated), other potential FAs
I LIKE...I LIKE....but gotta say, gonna miss charlie V > adios amigo!
the FAB-5:
TJ Ford, Morris Peterson, A. Barganini, CB, Nesterovic
Bench
Pape, Barrette, Tucker, Humpries, Graham, Calderson, Ukic (if he aint in span.), Alvin (depending on his contact), d.martin,
Possibilities?
Drew Gooden (sign & trade for mike jammmmessss), jay williams (make a solid PG if alvin's contact is terminated), other potential FAs
I LIKE...I LIKE....but gotta say, gonna miss charlie V > adios amigo!
Hmm...
...well I certainly don't know as much about basketball as "BC", but it would seem to me that big men who can actually play are a premium in the NBA, while speedy little men who cannot shoot are not.
If you see TJ Ford developing into a 16 and 8 guy who can hit a wide open 20 footer (which he will see alot of because of his quickness...no one will guard him close...) and really run a team, then it makes sense...but if TJ Ford continues to be...well...TJ Ford...then it doesn't seem like a value trade to me. Keep in mind - TJ Ford never established himself as THE man at point for the Bucks last season, and if they thought he had a bright future I am pretty sure they would not have traded him.
Add to that the fact that he has been injury prone (college and pros), and I don't see why they didn't make a move to draft Dee Brown instead. Similar game, better shooter.
BTW - I don't follow the gossip columns real close - why so much hate on Mike James? I would think a 20 and 6 point guard who shoots 47% from the floor (44% on threes!!) would be someone you'd want to keep around...
...well I certainly don't know as much about basketball as "BC", but it would seem to me that big men who can actually play are a premium in the NBA, while speedy little men who cannot shoot are not.
If you see TJ Ford developing into a 16 and 8 guy who can hit a wide open 20 footer (which he will see alot of because of his quickness...no one will guard him close...) and really run a team, then it makes sense...but if TJ Ford continues to be...well...TJ Ford...then it doesn't seem like a value trade to me. Keep in mind - TJ Ford never established himself as THE man at point for the Bucks last season, and if they thought he had a bright future I am pretty sure they would not have traded him.
Add to that the fact that he has been injury prone (college and pros), and I don't see why they didn't make a move to draft Dee Brown instead. Similar game, better shooter.
BTW - I don't follow the gossip columns real close - why so much hate on Mike James? I would think a 20 and 6 point guard who shoots 47% from the floor (44% on threes!!) would be someone you'd want to keep around...
Last edited:
I'm inclined to agree with MLAM here--I have never been a big TJ fan. Yeah, with Bergnini coming in, you could argue that CV was expendable, but was TJ Ford the best you could get? His size, his record of injuries, his inability to shoot--I don't like it.MLAM said:
Last edited:
there's a lot more to being a point guard than just shooting...As for 16-8...He pretty much is this already...And as for the Bucs...They had a close battle between Maurice Williams and T.J. for the top spot all season because they're both excellent passing guards...
Exactly...
If you think the 7-0 225 lbs, never seen a weight machine, 11 pts / game with no boards in the Italian league Bargnani is going to give you (this year) the 14 - 16 points / 6 - 8 reb you could have reasonably expected out of CV, you are dreaming.
If you make this trade because you think TJ Ford is the next Mo Cheeks, a pure point guard without big points and assist numbers - ok. But if you beleive that - why didn't the Bucks? Why couldn't TJ keep the other Buck point guards on the bench? And BTW - Cheeks could shoot - he was one of the most effiecnt shooting point guards in league history - he just didn't shoot much. TJ Ford can't shoot.
I understand that perhaps BC thought his chemistry was wrong with James at PG...ok, whatever. To me, you then DRAFT a "pure point", you don't give up proven talent to get one, unless you get PROVEN TALENT in return. TJ Ford has not proved he is top 25% NBA point guard yet...not even top 50%.
My analysis is that this trade makes the team worse - you've given up a proven scorer (CV) and put another one in limbo (James) for a guy who can't score (Ford). And BTW - who the fuck is he going to be doing all this passing too now?? A double and triple teamed Bosh?
Its a return to 2004, with Bosh as the only guy who can put the ball in the hole..
..because you go from having two post up threats (CV and Bosh) and an outside shooter / scorer to punish teams that double team them (James), to only ONE consistent scorer (Bosh) and no one to take the double pressure off of him (because Ford can't shoot).homonger said:
If you think the 7-0 225 lbs, never seen a weight machine, 11 pts / game with no boards in the Italian league Bargnani is going to give you (this year) the 14 - 16 points / 6 - 8 reb you could have reasonably expected out of CV, you are dreaming.
If you make this trade because you think TJ Ford is the next Mo Cheeks, a pure point guard without big points and assist numbers - ok. But if you beleive that - why didn't the Bucks? Why couldn't TJ keep the other Buck point guards on the bench? And BTW - Cheeks could shoot - he was one of the most effiecnt shooting point guards in league history - he just didn't shoot much. TJ Ford can't shoot.
I understand that perhaps BC thought his chemistry was wrong with James at PG...ok, whatever. To me, you then DRAFT a "pure point", you don't give up proven talent to get one, unless you get PROVEN TALENT in return. TJ Ford has not proved he is top 25% NBA point guard yet...not even top 50%.
My analysis is that this trade makes the team worse - you've given up a proven scorer (CV) and put another one in limbo (James) for a guy who can't score (Ford). And BTW - who the fuck is he going to be doing all this passing too now?? A double and triple teamed Bosh?
Its a return to 2004, with Bosh as the only guy who can put the ball in the hole..
CV still had a long way to go.....kind of like Bonner: gave you nice games but still did not show any real aggression/passion.
CV reminds me of Derrick Coleman: great at Syracuse..just never showed the passion consistently enough.
That's not to say CV can't also prove to be an invalueable asset like robert horry????
CV reminds me of Derrick Coleman: great at Syracuse..just never showed the passion consistently enough.
That's not to say CV can't also prove to be an invalueable asset like robert horry????
they also say you can't teach height..........very difficult to teach speed. Raptors needed speed BADLY.
As for TJ.s shooting etc......don't count out Mike James yet.....Raptors cleared out even more cap space didn't they?
Do they have enough cap to re-sign M.James and a replacement for C.V????
As for TJ.s shooting etc......don't count out Mike James yet.....Raptors cleared out even more cap space didn't they?
Do they have enough cap to re-sign M.James and a replacement for C.V????
Most people here seem to forget about teams playing defense. The raptors got rid of someone CV, who was never going to play any defense for a starting pg who will create turnovers. And all this talk about M James, this guy just never met a shot he didn't like. Not the kind of player you need on a winning team. On a losing team his stats look amazing, but on a team that wants to make the playoffs forget it. There is a also talk of some player from Spain's national team joining the Raptors shortly, he is another forward, so the raptors won't be missing CV that much. Get anothter 2 guard, and a back-up frontcourt player and their roster is set. The last thing BC needs to do is see about getting rid of Alvin Williams' contract, then he could be well on his way to being the executive of the year again.
I don't know much about TJ Ford... but he seems like a "never say die" kind of guy... the kind of fighter that deserves but will earn his respect....homonger said:
But... Bargnani is completely unproven, Ford has had too many injuries and only 1 3/4 seasons in the NBA.... I was not a big CV fan, but it seems that he is well on his was to a long NBA career as a starter if not an all-star...
Right now, we still have only one proven offensive threat, and NO defensive star on the roster.... I love a fast break style of B-ball, but prefer watching a well balanced team...
Colangelo has definitely got people talking about Toronto... I really hope that Colangelo knows what the hell he is doing!!!
