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United Healthcare CEO shot and killed in Manhattan

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
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Yes, he did intend to kill people. You don't pay out if they die, do you?

Stating that an insurance company is just following the business model is correct. The business model in this case is to not give people medical care. If a person chooses to head that company, and spend their time as CEO trying to figure out ways, or paying others, to figure out ways, to do this, then they are imo, sociopathic assholes. No one is forcing them to be the CEO. It's voluntary and pays well. They pay them to take on the responsibility of the policies.

Btw the AI resulted in a 90% second opinion denial. And was illegal. So what are the consequences for this? A fine? Paid for by the company?

Yes, delaying and denying care kills people. To state otherwise is ludicrous. And indifference is not a defense. Leave a person dying the side of the road after an accident, not call 911, even if you didn't have any part in the accident, and you are a piece of shit.

He chose to be part of a system that places money above lives. It's that simple
Well said (y)

I'm a capitalist by heart, but I dont approve of these practices where profits are maximized at the expense of patients.

The fact this is even open for conversation is insane!!!
 
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kittykellykat

Kelly @ Secret Escorts
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l Leave a person dying the side of the road after an accident, not call 911, even if you didn't have any part in the accident, and you are a piece of shit.
!

Totally get your moral intuition here.

Would you allow me at some point to tell you my perspective on this — it’s related to my Peter Singer reference upthread, and in part is what got me to swing right from left. I think this transcends politics and is more of a purely ethical issue, though. But it trickles down to politics.

I will post the paper here and if you like, we can reconvene, bc I have to go. It’s not long or dense reading.

I vehemently disagree with Singer btw.

I wonder what you think of his argument, or even how you feel about it, just on gut instinct? It seems neither here nor there, but it is definitely a relevant thought experiment to this health insurance stuff. Question is open to everyone. Who are we responsible to save?


Or here, if interested. Or even just the wiki entry. https://personal.lse.ac.uk/robert49/teaching/mm/articles/Singer_1972Famine.pdf

I’m sure many of you know of him.

I dont think we'd have to take the killer/murderer accusation literally.
I don’t think we should take it literally either. Yet, it almost seems that the people saying this guy deserved to be shot down like a dog, DO unironically believe insurance CEOs are killers, and that delivering them a death sentence is morally acceptable. Why else feel so satisfied about it?

I have an issue with taking it literally too, see?

If people want to say “delete health insurance as an institution” that’s an entirely different matter. I’m pretty sure that nobody deserved to die for that.

What makes it worse, is that this murder was carried out by some rich kid whose family also had a healthcare fortune — likely preying on old folks in a similar way😭. I won’t blame him for the acts of his ancestors, but I mean…come on?

I gtg. Thanks for the discussion everyone, and gn 💕
 

Robert Mugabe

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2017
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Totally.
Sort of what happened in Russia back in the day lol.
The peasants shall rise again! lmao.
Also the key will be evidence.
Not sure how much of it is solid that proves his guilt beyond a shred of reasonable doubt.
Not sure how much the CCTV camera picture can be counted on as evidence.
The shooting only captures his back and not his face.
Lets see what else the prosecution is able to produce.
Personally I'd like this guy to go free and would like to see some tangible changes to healthcare.
I think he is a candidate for the three strikes law. Two more of those and you're out Mister!
 

Sonic Temple

Dreamers learn to steer by the stars
Feb 14, 2020
18,367
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Yes, he did intend to kill people. You don't pay out if they die, do you?

Stating that an insurance company is just following the business model is correct. The business model in this case is to not give people medical care. If a person chooses to head that company, and spend their time as CEO trying to figure out ways, or paying others, to figure out ways, to do this, then they are imo, sociopathic assholes. No one is forcing them to be the CEO. It's voluntary and pays well. They pay them to take on the responsibility of the policies.

Btw the AI resulted in a 90% second opinion denial. And was illegal. So what are the consequences for this? A fine? Paid for by the company?

Yes, delaying and denying care kills people. To state otherwise is ludicrous. And indifference is not a defense. Leave a person dying the side of the road after an accident, not call 911, even if you didn't have any part in the accident, and you are a piece of shit.

He chose to be part of a system that places money above lives. It's that simple.
Brilliant.
 
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The Oracle

Pronouns: Who/Cares
Mar 8, 2004
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On the slopes of Mount Parnassus, Greece
Sorry for the long post, I was accused of being a pseudointellectual the other day so I was reluctant to say everything I wanted to say. But there it is
Kitty let it fly...You're posts are fascinating. Well thought out and stated.
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
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Room 112
The "business" model is gambling and scamming. It's take people's money then do their level best NOT TO PAY OUT. It's that simple.

So no, it isn't commie. It's basic consumer protection.

And it's not about not giving a product, it's about denial of healthcare to people. It's about letting them suffer and die.

Go ahead, explain the virtues of this business model. I'm waiting.
Your description of the 'business model' is not rooted in reality. For the most part the market works. Every insurance company will look for legal ways to not pay out, its part of due diligence. So is the solution to to off every CEO of an insurance company that wronged a customer? If so we'd have no CEO's left.
You also realize that the health insurance industry in the United States is quite regulated. They just can't cut off someone's insurance or deny claims because they feel like it. There has to be a valid reason behind it. Otherwise they would be buried in legal claims against them.
 
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Shaquille Oatmeal

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Jun 2, 2023
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There has to be a valid reason behind it. Otherwise they would be buried in legal claims against them.
Yeah.
Very valid reasons like not reporting acne.
Found suddenly when the person filed a claim for uterine cancer.
Must just be a coincidence.
Very valid legal and totally acceptable reasons such as this one below.
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
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Room 112
We was directly responsible. He was the CEO. He made the policy calls. That's the job? If the CEO isn't the leader and policy maker, then who the fuck is, and why is it a tough job?

Seriously, explain the business model. Who is responsible for the policies that end with 32% denial rates and using the AI illegally?
Using AI isn't illegal. If they know that the AI isn't functioning properly or if its rigged and systematically denying claims at inordinate rates, then there is grounds for a regulatory investigation and a potential class action lawsuit against the company.
 
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kittykellykat

Kelly @ Secret Escorts
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Using AI isn't illegal. If they know that the AI isn't functioning properly or if its rigged and systematically denying claims at inordinate rates, then there is grounds for a regulatory investigation and a potential class action lawsuit against the company.
Yes! They have been using “AI” and automated stuff since the 70s lol
 

Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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Using AI isn't illegal. If they know that the AI isn't functioning properly or if its rigged and systematically denying claims at inordinate rates, then there is grounds for a regulatory investigation and a potential class action lawsuit against the company.
It is if it's SUPPOSED TO BE AN ACTUAL DOCTOR. Either way the point being is IT SHOULD BE CRIMINAL. And the CEO charged with a crime. The day they said corporations are people was the day capitalism became a means to criminal activity. People making criminal decisions are shielded from consequences.
 

K Douglas

Half Man Half Amazing
Jan 5, 2005
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Room 112
It is if it's SUPPOSED TO BE AN ACTUAL DOCTOR. Either way the point being is IT SHOULD BE CRIMINAL. And the CEO charged with a crime. The day they said corporations are people was the day capitalism became a means to criminal activity. People making criminal decisions are shielded from consequences.
The other thing people seem to forget is United isn't the only healthcare insurance provider out there. If you don't like the way they operate find another insurer. Utilize other means such as health savings accounts or health reimbursement arrangements. When my company employed Americans we negotiated paying them additional $ and they used that to find their own preferred insurance providers.
 
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jalimon

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Jan 10, 2016
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Using AI isn't illegal. If they know that the AI isn't functioning properly or if its rigged and systematically denying claims at inordinate rates, then there is grounds for a regulatory investigation and a potential class action lawsuit against the company.
There was a class action filled in 2023 which found the proof of the use of AI. Not sure if it settled as of now and if yhey paid damages.

The thing is let’s say you pay 1800$ per month for your family. You get refuse treatment. You ask for review of the decision. Would you be happy to receive a second denial written by AI? Without knowing that it was written by AI?

Me? I would want to shoot someone.
 
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Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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Your description of the 'business model' is not rooted in reality. For the most part the market works. Every insurance company will look for legal ways to not pay out, its part of due diligence. So is the solution to to off every CEO of an insurance company that wronged a customer? If so we'd have no CEO's left.
You also realize that the health insurance industry in the United States is quite regulated. They just can't cut off someone's insurance or deny claims because they feel like it. There has to be a valid reason behind it. Otherwise they would be buried in legal claims against them.
They are buried in claims. And you just admitted they are in the business of NOT PAYING CLAIMS. And that it is good for business and how they make a profit. Way to go. Now the next step is to realize they pay politicians to make make as many legal loopholes as possible, and you are getting enlightened. Quite simply considering the mass, bipartisan reaction to this, support for the killer, I'd say it's proof the "market(stock)" are the only ones benefiting. And the providers, pharmaceutical companies that over charge. Did you ever consider that somewhere along the way the PATIENTS should benefit as well? Clearly they aren't.

32% claim denial, when other companies are sitting at 7% and it's twice the industry average. And a second opinion AI with a 90% failure rate designed by the company. They did indeed feel like denying legit claims. And did it.


The solution is Medicare for all. But when both parties are paid to not let it pass, despite polling showing the majority want it, and the MSM, also paid via advertising dollars, become propaganda tools for the industry, then guess what?

Madame la Guillotine awaits.

After the assassination the CEO of Blue Cross canceled plans for a policy to stop Anesthesia coverage DURING A SURGERY. So yes it worked. A few more and maybe they will get it.
 
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