Turkey Identifies 174 Israeli Soldiers Implicated in Mavis Marmara Massacre
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Nope, I accept the work of the Goldstone investigation as unbiased and fairly thorough. It found crimes on both sides and weighed as much evidence as it could. I also accept reports from Amnesty, Red Cross, WHO, B'teselem and HRW, amongst others. Just not the IDF or Israeli government.The only thing he will accept is a biased investigation with a predetermination of Israeli guilt.
Israel does not have a history of providing investigations into allegations of war crimes committed by themselves with any credibility and has never done anything other then absolve itself. The UN flotilla report was an example of the UN not trusting Israel to investigate themselves. An Israeli report would end up just like the only two settlers arrested for burning mosques, presumed innocent and let go. Oh yeah, so after Israel freed the only two settlers charged with crimes, they announced they were changing the rules to allow settlements built illegally on Palestinian land to stay and then they demolished a mosque. That's not the way a country that can be trusted to investigate itself acts.
And sure, investigate Egypt over the Coptics, while you are it.
Of course you "accept" the work of the Goldstone investigation as "unbiased and fairly thorough". You have only one criteria for something to be "unbiased and fairly thorough" and that is that it is critical of Israel. If you threw dogshit at a wall, and called a psychic in to interpret it, and the psychic said something critical of Israel, you would think it was "unbiased and fairly thorough".
Israel does indeed have a history of running credible investigations into its own affairs. Many of the cases you like to cite of Israeli wrong doing were uncovered--and penalized--by the Israeli courts. Several of their official investigations have come back highly critical of Israeli behavior. Their high courts have often ruled against the government.
You just have no fucking idea what you are talking about. You are driven by hate, and your hate makes you stupid. Or maybe your stupidity makes you hate. I don't know which.
Israel does indeed have a history of running credible investigations into its own affairs. Many of the cases you like to cite of Israeli wrong doing were uncovered--and penalized--by the Israeli courts. Several of their official investigations have come back highly critical of Israeli behavior. Their high courts have often ruled against the government.
You just have no fucking idea what you are talking about. You are driven by hate, and your hate makes you stupid. Or maybe your stupidity makes you hate. I don't know which.
Speaking of hate, you dedicated way more words in that reply to insults then you did to arguments.Of course you "accept" the work of the Goldstone investigation as "unbiased and fairly thorough". You have only one criteria for something to be "unbiased and fairly thorough" and that is that it is critical of Israel. If you threw dogshit at a wall, and called a psychic in to interpret it, and the psychic said something critical of Israel, you would think it was "unbiased and fairly thorough".
Israel does indeed have a history of running credible investigations into its own affairs. Many of the cases you like to cite of Israeli wrong doing were uncovered--and penalized--by the Israeli courts. Several of their official investigations have come back highly critical of Israeli behavior. Their high courts have often ruled against the government.
You just have no fucking idea what you are talking about. You are driven by hate, and your hate makes you stupid. Or maybe your stupidity makes you hate. I don't know which.
Just saying......
I guess I'll to repeat my point about Goldstone, since you once again missed it.
The Goldstone report was reputable because it looked at and found crimes from both sides, that's Hamas and Israel, in case you forgot.
Israel's history of investigating itself is a long record of slaps of the wrist, followed by absolution. I'd say its about as credible as Hamas in the matter.
C'mon Ernst Zundel, Fuji, let's start telling the truth. The Goldstone Report has not been modified or changed in any way. Nor has Judge Goldstone asked that the report be changed in any way. In fact, he's on record saying that it should not be changed.Given that there were only really serious crimes committed by one side (as Goldstone himself has now acknowledged) a report that said there were crimes by both sides is not reputable.
Facts always get in your way, don't they?
It already did.Try harder. Maybe if you close your eyes and make a wish his published retraction will just disappear....
The only thing left standing is the Goldstone report, still unchanged and still approved by the UN.
Goldstone's letter? Probably got him invited to that Bar Mitzvah he got banned from. Otherwise, not so much.
So, chemical weapons, use of human shields and a host of other crimes Goldstone accused Israel still stand.
Are you still denying them, or will you come out and say they were wrong?
OK, Ernst Zundel/Fuji....settle this once and for all.Try harder. Maybe if you close your eyes and make a wish his published retraction will just disappear....
Provide us with the link to the Goldstone Report where it has been modified to reflect your claims.
If you can't, well, then you are still the same Ernst Zundel/Fuji. If you can provide us with a link to the updated or modified Goldstone Report, you'll get an apology.
The Goldstone report has been discredited, its own author has repudiated it. Is it really surprising that Moamar Gadaffi and his fellow dictators in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Pakistan decided not to acknowledge it was discredited?
I am of course referring to the UN HRC members that you are putting so much stock in. Personally, unlike you I don't turn to Moamar Gadaffi when I look for authoritative statements on human rights.
The fact that the report's author has repudiated it means that no thinking person will take it seriously. It is discredited, and the fact that UN HRC has not acknowledged that it is discredited means that UN HRC is discredited--assuming counting Moamar among its members, along with Jordan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, etc., hadn't already discredited it enough.
I am of course referring to the UN HRC members that you are putting so much stock in. Personally, unlike you I don't turn to Moamar Gadaffi when I look for authoritative statements on human rights.
The fact that the report's author has repudiated it means that no thinking person will take it seriously. It is discredited, and the fact that UN HRC has not acknowledged that it is discredited means that UN HRC is discredited--assuming counting Moamar among its members, along with Jordan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, etc., hadn't already discredited it enough.
That's the best you can do?
We'll take the point that the Goldstone report stands as it is.
Now back to the issue.
Why is it that you will accept charges from Goldstone, the UN, HRW, Amnesty, B'teselem, WHO, Red Cross if they criticize Palestinians but will immediately deny, weasel or do what you can to refuse any charges of any sort against Israel?
We'll take the point that the Goldstone report stands as it is.
Now back to the issue.
Why is it that you will accept charges from Goldstone, the UN, HRW, Amnesty, B'teselem, WHO, Red Cross if they criticize Palestinians but will immediately deny, weasel or do what you can to refuse any charges of any sort against Israel?
Is pointing out that the report has been discredited by its own author the best I can do?
Yup.
And what do you mean by the "Goldstone report stands as it is", it never had any standing whatsoever to begin with. The UN Security Council never endorsed it, which by the way also means there is no way to retract it, as it was never accepted. Other than UN HRC could retract it, but who cares what Moamar and friends think of human rights?
Yup.
And what do you mean by the "Goldstone report stands as it is", it never had any standing whatsoever to begin with. The UN Security Council never endorsed it, which by the way also means there is no way to retract it, as it was never accepted. Other than UN HRC could retract it, but who cares what Moamar and friends think of human rights?
The report went to the UN GA, not UN SC, your point is irrelevant.Is pointing out that the report has been discredited by its own author the best I can do?
Yup.
And what do you mean by the "Goldstone report stands as it is", it never had any standing whatsoever to begin with. The UN Security Council never endorsed it, which by the way also means there is no way to retract it, as it was never accepted. Other than UN HRC could retract it, but who cares what Moamar and friends think of human rights?
And the report is still there at the UN.
Did Goldstone contact the UN to try to change it or retract it? Nope, he wrote an op-ed to make friendly with his community. If he really wanted to retract the report he would have written the UN, not a newspaper.
This argument is going nowhere.You really are a clown. I think you know how dumb you are making yourself look by continuing to argue that the report has any merit after its own author repudiated it.
You've said your only point, and I don't accept it.
Lets move on.
Lets get you to finally answer why Palestinians are not subject to the same set of rules as Israeli's in your mind.
Why is Israel always innocent of any charge and Palestinians always guilty of every charge?
You don't accept it because you are a bloody clown. Goldstone retracted what he said. He is the author. You really cannot argue with that. The fact that a bunch of Arab states did not put their stamp of approval on that--surprise, surprise.
Palestinians are subject to the EXACT SAME principles as everyone else. You just don't accept those principles.
The primary difference is that as a repugnant terrorist organization Hamas celebrates atrocity. They commit atrocity. When somebody else commits atrocity against Israelis they call them heros. When Israeli forces do something they shouldn't they tend to launch an investigation and punish it. That's the difference between terrorists and democracy. That difference is why Israel is almost always on the right side.
Is Israel perfect? Far from it. But its problems are relatively small, minor issues. Hamas revels in committing the gravest crimes against humanity.
Moreover Israel plainly seeks peace, and has laid out not entirely unreasonable conditions for it. Hamas won't accept peace under any terms. They will accept ceasefires while they rearm. They will never accept Israel's right to exist, they will always seek war.
It is a pretty clear choice: Democracy versus terrorism. It's not the case that they are somehow equal. It is not the case that an unbiased observer would lay equal blame on both sides. One side is clearly superior, morally, legally, to the other.
Palestinians are subject to the EXACT SAME principles as everyone else. You just don't accept those principles.
The primary difference is that as a repugnant terrorist organization Hamas celebrates atrocity. They commit atrocity. When somebody else commits atrocity against Israelis they call them heros. When Israeli forces do something they shouldn't they tend to launch an investigation and punish it. That's the difference between terrorists and democracy. That difference is why Israel is almost always on the right side.
Is Israel perfect? Far from it. But its problems are relatively small, minor issues. Hamas revels in committing the gravest crimes against humanity.
Moreover Israel plainly seeks peace, and has laid out not entirely unreasonable conditions for it. Hamas won't accept peace under any terms. They will accept ceasefires while they rearm. They will never accept Israel's right to exist, they will always seek war.
It is a pretty clear choice: Democracy versus terrorism. It's not the case that they are somehow equal. It is not the case that an unbiased observer would lay equal blame on both sides. One side is clearly superior, morally, legally, to the other.
And when mobs shouting 'death to arabs' march to Palestinian, how many serve time after that?
When allegations of war crimes are presented, how many Israeli's served time for that?
When international law, UN resolutions or human rights organizations complain about abuses by Israel, how many are acted on?
About a week ago you pointed to a HRW report criticizing Hamas. I agree that should be acted on, then point out several other HRW reports criticizing Israel and you pretend they don't exist. That's a double standard.
When allegations of war crimes are presented, how many Israeli's served time for that?
When international law, UN resolutions or human rights organizations complain about abuses by Israel, how many are acted on?
About a week ago you pointed to a HRW report criticizing Hamas. I agree that should be acted on, then point out several other HRW reports criticizing Israel and you pretend they don't exist. That's a double standard.
How many people would serve time for that in ANY country? However the Israeli police are likely to break up and limit a rally like that, the same way the Canadian police would.And when mobs shouting 'death to arabs' march to Palestinian, how many serve time after that?
In Gaza, the Hamas leaders would be the ones leading the chant.
Here we can see that Israel has clearly got a legally and morally superior response.
Nobody should ever serve time for an "allegation", and most of the allegations of war crimes turn out to be bogus. The claims in Goldstone turned out to be bogus. The flotilla claims turned out to be bogus.When allegations of war crimes are presented, how many Israeli's served time for that?
In a few cases where there have been real issues Israel has investigated them and yes there have been penalties applied, ranging from people being jailed, to more commonly soldiers being demoted for not following policy. For example, in the case of the allegation of white phosophorous use, Israel investigated and found that some soldiers had not been following the required policy for choosing targets. They were demoted.
In Gaza? Hamas celebrates and calls heroes people who commit war crimes, even bragging about it.
Here we can see that Israel has clearly got a legally and morally superior response.
Pretty much all of them are investigated if they are credible allegations. Many of these cases make it into the Israeli court system.When international law, UN resolutions or human rights organizations complain about abuses by Israel, how many are acted on?
Hamas scoffs at allegations of human rights violations by its side, and instead brags about the atrocities it commits.
Here we can see that Israel has clearly got a legally and morally superior response.
