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- Thread starter eric42
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What an inconvenience it is to be a witness. Your right, why waste your precious time, when you can be at home to watch TV with the kids. What a hassle it is to do the right thing.mtl_guy said:I would bet that most people would agree that the "right" thing to do is to come forward as a witness and tell the police what you saw and identify the suspects if possible.
However, when YOU are in that situation then things become more complicated. I had been a witness to a relatively serious crime in the past and had come forward. It ended up turning into a huge mess for me that lasted for much longer than you can imagine.
If you were a witness to this crime, a lot of thoughts would be going through your head.
-Fear would be one of them. Especially if you thought this was gang related, would you want to come forward and then have your name in the media and police/court documents. Obviously these guys are crazy and have nothing to lose if the shot up a bus. So do I really want them knowing who I am. Ive got a family too.
-And if you get dragged into the legal process, as I said it was for me, it becomes a huge inconvenience in your life. This may seem petty compared to what the girl getting shot is going through, but its still my life and not yours.
-The inabilibty of the legal system to deal with criminals is also a factor. Why should I live through fear, possibly becoming a victim myself, and then getting involved in any legal proceedings when these guys if caught and taken to trial will likely get a couple of years in jail and be out in half that time and back on the street in half that time.
Its easy to call these people cowards until you are in their situation.Its funny how when something like this happens everyone says theyd be a hero but when situation actually happen none of these heros seem to be around.
If this happened to someone you knew, how would you feel about such inconveniences?
Your right! It is easy to call people cowards in situations like this. Oh, by the way....I still think these people are gutless cowards and as each hour and day passess with hardly anyone coming forward, these people should be held accountable for their lack of co-operation. Of course, our "legal system" being imperfect, these people (the witnesses) will not the punishment they deserve for having a no spine and a "look the other way" attitude.
I think its his fault for getting into the arguement in the first place. Sometimes you just gotta bite your tongue and walk away or stay out of it.
I see it all the time where theres a group of young men who are being obnoxious, loud, and acting disrespectful to everyone around them - whether its on the subway or bus or whereever. You never know if these guys are gangbangers with guns or just harmless kids. Its the hero attitude of someone trying to teach them a lesson and shut them up that causes shit. Ive seen it happen before in restaurants bars and even on public transit.
Sometimes you just gotta mind your own business.
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I see it all the time where theres a group of young men who are being obnoxious, loud, and acting disrespectful to everyone around them - whether its on the subway or bus or whereever. You never know if these guys are gangbangers with guns or just harmless kids. Its the hero attitude of someone trying to teach them a lesson and shut them up that causes shit. Ive seen it happen before in restaurants bars and even on public transit.
Sometimes you just gotta mind your own business.
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eric42 said:I would call him brave, not an idiot.
Its somehow his fault because he ran, that the little girl got shot? I think you're the idiot.
You won't be a home doing anything if you are dead.eric42 said:What an inconvenience it is to be a witness. You’re right, why waste your precious time, when you can be at home to watch TV with the kids. What a hassle it is to do the right thing.
Even if you do put the guy in jail chances are one of his friends will get you. Or when he gets out after 5 LONG years he will find you. This guy must now save his rep. Or he can never show his face in gang world again. Nothing is more important to him then that. Believe me this is no "b" rated movie plot. Sadly it's happening right here in Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver etc. for real. It's not fantasy. It's very real. If you choose not to believe it... well that's your choice.
Yep, gotta love it. It is the victims fault for sure.mtl_guy said:I think its his fault for getting into the arguement in the first place. Sometimes you just gotta bite your tongue and walk away or stay out of it.
Sometimes you just gotta mind your own business.
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All it takes for evil to triumph is for all of us to behave like the three monkeys "see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil".
I'm no hero but I can't help but think if it was one of my family that got hurt I would sure want someone to step up to the plate and help.
I can't believe what I'm reading here.
Making a phone call is not that difficult. Even if you fear being idenified make the call from a pay phone downtown to crimestoppers. How hard is that?
So then you reward the evil deed? This is exactly how YOU STOP this kind of criminal behavior in the first place. You GET INVOLVED. The community participates together to eradicate the criminals. It's when we stop getting involved that these things happen and are allowed to flourish. Simply because certain segments of society stopped acting like humans doesn't mean we all should.TheNiteHwk said:You won't be a home doing anything if you are dead.
Making a phone call is not that difficult. Even if you fear being idenified make the call from a pay phone downtown to crimestoppers. How hard is that?
We dont know what happened in this particular case.
My point is that sometimes, even if you are right or have a valid point, its better not to provoke a situation.
Lets say that theres a bunch of loud obnoxious youths loitering outside a subway station. Theyre standing in the way of people, swearing, and just being ignorant towards everyone.
They piss me off and since Im 6'5 and a tough guy I go tell them shut the fuck up and move on. The guy tells me to fuck off and pushes. Since Im twice his size I push him back. Then one of his friends pulls again and starts spraying bullets. He hits me a coupld of times and also hits some bystanders.
See, Im the victim. But I could have easily walked away. If I really thought there way a problem I could have called the police.
My point is that sometimes, even if you are right or have a valid point, its better not to provoke a situation.
Lets say that theres a bunch of loud obnoxious youths loitering outside a subway station. Theyre standing in the way of people, swearing, and just being ignorant towards everyone.
They piss me off and since Im 6'5 and a tough guy I go tell them shut the fuck up and move on. The guy tells me to fuck off and pushes. Since Im twice his size I push him back. Then one of his friends pulls again and starts spraying bullets. He hits me a coupld of times and also hits some bystanders.
See, Im the victim. But I could have easily walked away. If I really thought there way a problem I could have called the police.
Shades said:Yep, gotta love it. It is the victims fault for sure.
I am not going to comment about this particular case because I don't know for sure.Shades said:... I'm no hero but I can't help but think if it was one of my family that got hurt I would sure want someone to step up to the plate and help.
Having said though... I would be willing to bet...
In a lot of cases of recent shootings or the type of shootings that have been happening here in GTA in past couple of years. (With the exception of the mothers.) I would be willing to bet that other family members will not come forward even if they know who the shooter is. They will take matters into their own hands or just shut up and bear it. Why? Like I said already... they don't want to suffer the same fate. Another reason. Even if they do the murderer will not be punished appropriately. He will be sent to Club Fed and possible live even better then the victims’ family. While the victims’ family is scratching out an existence barely able to survive. The murderer is in Club Fed eating steaks, working out in the weight room, meeting and networking with his counter parts to plan even bigger and better things when he is released, having congenial visits, color TV, computer and internet access, free medical... etc... etc.
Re: I can't believe what I'm reading here.
Firstly, a phone call likely wont help unless you recognized the guy from elsewhere and could identify him or knew what stop he got on or where he worked. I dont doubt people would come forward with such info.
People are scared of being an eye witness. Having to provide a description for a sketch and then identifying a potential suspect and lastly having to testify as a witness in court.
And the big problem is that this behaviour will NOT be stopped by eye witnesses coming forward.
Lets say these guys do get caught. They will plead out and get a couple of years. When theyre locked up there will be many more gang members taking their place. Even if the guy is illegal and gets deported after his sentence, chances are he will be back in Canada in a few months and doing more crimes again.
Firstly, a phone call likely wont help unless you recognized the guy from elsewhere and could identify him or knew what stop he got on or where he worked. I dont doubt people would come forward with such info.
People are scared of being an eye witness. Having to provide a description for a sketch and then identifying a potential suspect and lastly having to testify as a witness in court.
And the big problem is that this behaviour will NOT be stopped by eye witnesses coming forward.
Lets say these guys do get caught. They will plead out and get a couple of years. When theyre locked up there will be many more gang members taking their place. Even if the guy is illegal and gets deported after his sentence, chances are he will be back in Canada in a few months and doing more crimes again.
Cardinal Fang said:So then you reward the evil deed? This is exactly how YOU STOP this kind of criminal behavior in the first place. You GET INVOLVED. The community participates together to eradicate the criminals. It's when we stop getting involved that these things happen and are allowed to flourish. Simply because certain segments of society stopped acting like humans doesn't mean we all should.
Making a phone call is not that difficult. Even if you fear being idenified make the call from a pay phone downtown to crimestoppers. How hard is that?
Re: Re: I can't believe what I'm reading here.
Maybe I'm an idealist but I like to have higher expectation of people.
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Any information is helpful. Let the police decide what's relevant and what isn't. Give them the description, point them in the direction. There is plenty that someone can do and still protect their identity. Crimestoppers is anonymous.mtl_guy said:Firstly, a phone call likely wont help unless you recognized the guy from elsewhere and could identify him or knew what stop he got on or where he worked. I dont doubt people would come forward with such info.
Statistics have proven that the safeist neighbourhoods are the ones where there have more "eyes on the street." Community policing means just that. The police and community coming together.mtl_guy said:And the big problem is that this behaviour will NOT be stopped by eye witnesses coming forward.
The law in every instance of punishment must have teeth. It's pointless to have the community more involved in these matters if the Justice System just turns them loose. Nobody will ever argue that. But the notion of not becoming involved in what occurs around you is tacit approval of the action itself.mtl_guy said:Lets say these guys do get caught. They will plead out and get a couple of years. When theyre locked up there will be many more gang members taking their place. Even if the guy is illegal and gets deported after his sentence, chances are he will be back in Canada in a few months and doing more crimes again.
Maybe I'm an idealist but I like to have higher expectation of people.
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Hey eric42, you should know, moron.eric42 said:I would call him brave, not an idiot.
Its somehow his fault because he ran, that the little girl got shot? I think you're the idiot.
He caused the situation by initating the argument with the suspects.
Do'nt start something you can't finish.
If someone pulls a gun on you......do'nt be a tough guy, back down, defuse the situation. Tough guys & heros get shot.
How the hell would you feel if it were your kid.
Arena said:Hey eric42, you should know, moron.
He caused the situation by initating the argument with the suspects.
Do'nt start something you can't finish.
If someone pulls a gun on you......do'nt be a tough guy, back down, defuse the situation. Tough guys & heros get shot.
How the hell would you feel if it were your kid.
I'm sorry for calling you an idiot. You are a real genius. Logic like your's is hard to argue with. You are truly a fucking brilliant man.
I guess I am a moron, Einstien- because I can't figure out what the fuck you are talking about. Could somebody out there translate what this imbecile is trying to say?
By the way Professor Arena, the apostrophe goes after the "n", in don't.
By what I had read I tend to doubt he was not part of the original GANG. Yes GANG. It is not unusual for a member to be excutited for screwing up.
Huh????????????????????????????????????????Arena said:Looking for back up even for your words?
What do you expect from someone who has such a firm grasp of the english language.Escohort said:Huh????????????????????????????????????????
Another example of black culture being supplanted with gangster culture. Go ahead and call me whatever, I've had it with making excuses for young black males who think they can get away with murder. Literally.
You've proved my point exactly.
I criticize the guy for making the worst out of a situation he could have left alone.
You respond by attacking me with your big mouth. If you were half the man you pretend to be, you would not have made the worst of a comment not aimed at you in the first place.
Big man hiding behind a keyboard eric42....
So glad we can entertain you all.
Nothing too exciting on the SP scene lately.
Ah, I remember you now.....you were one of the desperate souls who I neglected to PM details in response to my Asian fever post.
It all makes sense now.
Duh, did I put the apostrophe thing in the right spot this time.
If you're available as a private tutor, just name the time and place.
I criticize the guy for making the worst out of a situation he could have left alone.
You respond by attacking me with your big mouth. If you were half the man you pretend to be, you would not have made the worst of a comment not aimed at you in the first place.
Big man hiding behind a keyboard eric42....
So glad we can entertain you all.
Nothing too exciting on the SP scene lately.
Ah, I remember you now.....you were one of the desperate souls who I neglected to PM details in response to my Asian fever post.
It all makes sense now.
Duh, did I put the apostrophe thing in the right spot this time.
If you're available as a private tutor, just name the time and place.
