Traffic Court trial: Driving with no/expired driver's licence

[oldjones]

Just to clarify, I forgot to renew my driver's licence.…edit…For an administrative process, this type of traffic ticket should not be going to court but a regular payable fine like $150 dollars is good change for the MTO to easily collect rather than clogging up the traffic court system with administrative charges.…edit…

They have precisely the process you describe: Plead Guilty and pay the established fine of $325, which you could have done by mail some time ago, saving yourself and the Court (and all our taxes) time and trouble.

What you are actually asking for is special treatment because of your innocent oversight, and for that you must go to Court. Good luck.

 

[elwoodinontario]

Thanks. I will pay the fine.
However, there are extraordinary circumstances that caused me to forget to renew my driver's license as opposed to deliberately drive without one.

In over 20 years of driving, it's the 1st time I didn't renew on time. Your comments 'don't do it again' makes it sound like I'm a repeat offender. Hahaha

It's amazing from the comments from this board that we can tell how some people think they are 'judge, jury and executioner' all in one mindset. Crazy!

You asked for opinions. That was mine. How you could forget is beyond me. The renewal date is your birthday, for crissakes. The MTO sends you a renewal notice months in advance. If you choose to put it off, it's you who deserves all the blame.
I never implied you were a repeat offender. If you choose to take it that way, it's your problem. Don't blame me. You made a mistake. We all make them. By starting this thread, you're looking for a way to weasle out of it. If you weren't, you would have just paid the fine and gotten on with your life.

 

[nottyboi]

You asked for opinions. That was mine. How you could forget is beyond me. The renewal date is your birthday, for crissakes. The MTO sends you a renewal notice months in advance. If you choose to put it off, it's you who deserves all the blame.
I never implied you were a repeat offender. If you choose to take it that way, it's your problem. Don't blame me. You made a mistake. We all make them. By starting this thread, you're looking for a way to weasle out of it. If you weren't, you would have just paid the fine and gotten on with your life.

It is your bday every 5 years.. not that hard to forget....

 

[HOF]

right up the alley of our paralegal specialist (cough) quarter inch fall, but he`s not cheap. I think he said he charged $120 a half hour,

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...-a-word-wow.&p=3397128&viewfull=1#post3397128

rotflmfao!

 

[HOF]

Finisher,

No comment to add, but please let us know how this works out for future reference.

 

[Hightop]

The challange for delayed trial is called an 11b motion however must be completed before trial date and takes about 6 weeks to complete. Also the time period must be over 13 months of the offense and according to your earlier post is a few days shy.
Something not mentioned but curious to know since you forgot to renew were your plates expired too as they renew on birthday as well. If they were and officer used descretion and gave you a break it will be noted in disclousure.
Go to court if you remember what the officer looks like and you are sure he is not present case will be tossed if he is there talk to the crown explain your oversight. Bring the proof from the MTO that you renewed right away and they should be willing to lower the fine to about $150. Can ask for time to pay it or go right downstairs to the cashier and take care of it.

 

[thompo69]

The challange for delayed trial is called an 11b motion however must be completed before trial date and takes about 6 weeks to complete. Also the time period must be over 13 months of the offense and according to your earlier post is a few days shy.
Something not mentioned but curious to know since you forgot to renew were your plates expired too as they renew on birthday as well. If they were and officer used descretion and gave you a break it will be noted in disclousure.
Go to court if you remember what the officer looks like and you are sure he is not present case will be tossed if he is there talk to the crown explain your oversight. Bring the proof from the MTO that you renewed right away and they should be willing to lower the fine to about $150. Can ask for time to pay it or go right downstairs to the cashier and take care of it.

It is actually an application under s.24(1) of the Charter. It requires 15 days notice, and there is no magic time period that must have elapsed, but you are right the time elapsed in this case likely wouldn't cut it.

 

[The Finisher]

You asked for opinions. That was mine. How you could forget is beyond me. The renewal date is your birthday, for crissakes. The MTO sends you a renewal notice months in advance. If you choose to put it off, it's you who deserves all the blame.
I never implied you were a repeat offender. If you choose to take it that way, it's your problem. Don't blame me. You made a mistake. We all make them. By starting this thread, you're looking for a way to weasle out of it. If you weren't, you would have just paid the fine and gotten on with your life.

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Thanks Elwoodinontario.

If every driver in Ontario chose to pay the fine and be done with it.....that's fine.
However, isn't every driver deemed innocent until proven guilty?
Or is each and every police officer's opinion and interpretation of the driving laws 100% reliable and accurate?
(I don't want to open this can of worms)

Paying the fine is just an administrative process and YES I wanted an option.
If the police officer had told me to pay the fine and it won't hurt my insurance rates I would have immediately paid it.
But the police officer told me that I have options and that I should go to court and have it knocked down. (<--- his words).

When I enter the traffic court I will plead guilty with an explanation and hope for the best from the prosecution and justice of the peace.
Driving is a privilege and I will respect that.

What I don't respect is people who believe that they never make mistakes!

Who hasn't forgotten to renew their driver's license, their OHIP card renewal, forgotten their PIN on their debit/credit cards, their online passwords to their websites/email accounts, their family and friends' birthdays, paying their bills on time, etc, etc.

Anyway, I'll pay the fine and hopefully not come across as a 'weasel' to the court systems?
Afterall, I think 'weasels' do provide a service to nature's ecosystem?

That can't be said for some of us 'human beings' who destroy planet earth with their sense of entitlement, destruction and holier-than-you attitude!


Funny, what goes around comes around...but thanks for your opinion.
Cheers!

The 'Forgetful' Finisher

 

[Mervyn]

Or the officer simply told him the options he had available to him,which is something an officer should do , and he is making the assumption of what the officer believed

 

[The Finisher]

You know, this whole police officer advising offenders to "go to court and fight it" might make for a decent argument by an ambitious lawyer that the police officer did not believe the validity of the charge, had an ulterior motive (overtime pay) or himself is contributing to the delays in the courts by needlessly tying up finite court resources.

Not going all nottyboi/blackrock/rockslinger here but just sayin...

Yeah, I think some of the police officers knows where their bread and butter is.
Hmmm......spend 1 day patrolling the cold streets of Toronto (like today) or spend 1/3 of a day in warm traffic court being paid a full days wage for showing up for attendance??

Well, I don't think the police officer who cited me for a minor traffic infraction is as extreme as the infamous police officer Michael Smith who rakes in over $100,000 in annual salary for his punctual court attendance? Hahaha

 

[blopar]

Indeed, they do...because they get a minimum of four hours, at time and a half, for each court appearance.

That's why so many officers are pulling in excess of $150 K per year.

Let's see if Rob Ford is prepared to take THAT one on.

 

[The Finisher]

Or the officer simply told him the options he had available to him,which is something an officer should do , and he is making the assumption of what the officer believed

---------------------

The police officer told me the options available on the back of my ticket and said that a smart option is to go to court and have it knocked down as a $325 traffic ticket offense is not small peanuts like a $60-$100 speeding ticket.

Heck, if I can get my $325 ticket knocked down to under $200 with no serious impact to my insurance premiums...why not?
That means the money I save is one more SP I can possibly see. See, I'm not that much of a weasel??

The 'Forgetful Weasel Who Blames Everyone but Himself' Finisher

 

[blackrock13]

You know, this whole police officer advising offenders to "go to court and fight it" might make for a decent argument by an ambitious lawyer that the police officer did not believe the validity of the charge, had an ulterior motive (overtime pay) or himself is contributing to the delays in the courts by needlessly tying up finite court resources.

Not going all nottyboi/blackrock/rockslinger here but just sayin...

Having only been to court on three occasions, as a witness, I found it as boring as hell. I have no idea why someone would want to go.

 

[Stoo]

I was travelling 50 km/hr, maybe a bit too slow on that slushy Sunday.
I guess the police were doing a routine licence plate check?

You might consult with a paralegal just for fun. I always understood that the police needed a reason to stop you... "probable cause" and all that. If there is anything to this, then presumably this could be used to "negotiate" with the Crown. As always, YMMV.

And quite possibly, I just watch too much TV.

 

[blackrock13]

Because the copper has a new pickup truck and bass boat payments to make!

Okay!

 

[elwoodinontario]

You might consult with a paralegal just for fun. I always understood that the police needed a reason to stop you... "probable cause" and all that. If there is anything to this, then presumably this could be used to "negotiate" with the Crown. As always, YMMV.

And quite possibly, I just watch too much TV.

I'm gonna take a wild stab here and say that if the OP forgot to renew his license, he probably forgot his plate renwal sticker as well. If this happened 2 months after his birthday, it would be plainly obvious that the sticker was expired, and provide probable cause to stop the OP.

 

[The Finisher]

I'm gonna take a wild stab here and say that if the OP forgot to renew his license, he probably forgot his plate renwal sticker as well. If this happened 2 months after his birthday, it would be plainly obvious that the sticker was expired, and provide probable cause to stop the OP.

------------------
Wild stab.....good try but you missed the mark.

Wait....I guess I should provide further information before one makes assumptions or jumps to conclusions.

I renew my licence plate every 2 years as opposed to every year.
If I renew my license plate every 2 years, and my driver's license comes up for renewal every 5 years, then how often will my driver's license and licence plate renewal fall on the same year?? Trick question eh?

Anyway, I renewed my driver's licence plate a year before and when I received a letter 6 months later from the MTO, I opened it and quickly glanced at it and saw the words: driver licence renewal.

I'll take full responsibility for not carefully re-reading it as driver's licence renewal as I thought it was for my driver's licence plate renewal. Duh??
Didn't I already renew it??

Hence, my confusion for not immediately addressing the renewal.
I bet you other drivers who have forgotten to renew either their licence plate or driver's licence may have made the same mistake as I have.
Or better yet......I'm making an assumption that everyone never forgets to renew either their driver's licence or driver's licence plate??

Well, the MTO's system is inefficient. They should offer drivers the opportunity to bundle their driver's licence and driver's licence plate sticker renewal as 'one'. Just my 2 pennies (soon to be eliminated from the public monetary system).

* I should be writing up reviews on the SPs and not so much on de-constructing a minor traffic infraction. Hahaha

 

[GotGusto]

Go before the Justice of the Peace and explain your situation and ask them for recommendations. Maybe they're able to give you a reduced fine and you can skip the court procession altogether.

I don't really know how it works. I went through a redlight once on my way to get pussy, got caught on traffic cam and had to go through the system after that. It's such an inconvenience . . . however that's part of the intent, it did successfully change my driving behavior.

 

[The Finisher]

Go before the Justice of the Peace and explain your situation. They'll be lenient.

----------------------
Thanks. Maybe I should show them my not-so-shilly SP reviews?
It may help save them time, money and provide a more enjoyable SP experience for them?

 

[patton]

dont go to court without a representative.
I was pulled over an charged with driving under suspension.. long story... and got off.
Somebody who knows how the courts work pays off.
Deals can be struck before the court room procedures start.
If you have a clean record and have a good person helping you should be ok.
Its worth the $$ as insurance hike will be worse.