Tradesmen, plumbers, electricians, ect, ect. Have you ever been soaked?

[Ceiling Cat]

I was told by a plumber that he does not charge less than $250 for any visit no matter how small. Even if it is to change a U trap under the sink. He tells me that he can not stay in business for any less. If it is just a simple unscrewing and 2 nuts and reinstall of the U trap under the sink he tells me most plumbers will wrench connecting tubes off and claim that the fittings were all corroded and need changing to extend the time or they may claim not to have that right parts and run off and get them for you ( at your expense )

I do simple for myself like changing U traps, changing faucets and electrical work like changing wall switches and electrical wall sockets. I just did an under sink job that took 90 minutes and $20 of parts. I suspect that a plumber would have charged me 3 or 4 hours ( $300-$400 ) and $60-80 for the parts.

What are your small job electrician and plumber stories? Have you ever been soaked bad?

 

[destillat]

Gas isn't cheap, neither is time.

I have a fridge in the basement that was unplugged for years... when I plugged it back in the fan was squeaking.
Called a guy that left his card in my mailbox.
He came over, had to take both doors off to the get trim and the freezer liner off to access the fan. Oiled the hell out of it (replacement part is discontinued), then put it all back together.
Works like a charm now, took him an hour and he charged me $70 total... very reasonable... he probably could have charged more and I wouldn't have argued... at least now I know how to take it apart if it happens again.

Trades are expensive, you can't expect them to make a home visit for ANYTHING for less than $100-$150 base if you aren't willing/able to do it yourself.

 

[Ceiling Cat]

I have heard about 3 hour jobs in the morning with 3 men for $800. Regardless of what the hourly rate is, it is dishonest to twidle around or pretend to get parts when you do not have to.

 

[Butler1000]

I'm a member of home service club. They send out recomended peoplle and guarantee the work.

Beyond that for larger jobs(like my recent roof job) I use Homestars website. Also found other that way. Just like Terb with reviews.

I'd rather pay a bit more and know the work is quality. As for small stuff like light switch changes, tap changes etc I can do that myself. But the minute someone has to go into a wall or I feel something bad could happen I'm calling a pro.

Landscaping, painting other cosmetic is easy. Building and rebiulding you are better with a pro.

 

[bazokajoe]

It's like anything else.Somethings you can do your self and some you can't.

My furnace goes dead in the winter they have you by family jewels.I want new taps,I put them in myself.

Basically,know your limits.Don't put yourself in danger( Carbon Monoxide poisoning,electrocution) just to save a few $$.

Nobody works for free.

 

[good to go]

Now with yearly fees at $120 to just keep your license plus gas and travel time it happens.

 

[Marla]

All I can add to this story is from my professional experience, there are more horny electricians than any other trade.

 

[SchlongConery]

All I can add to this story is from my professional experience, there are more horny electricians than any other trade.

They are hard wired that way.

 

[harryass]

having worked in construction, I find that MOST contractors do piss poor crappy work. Cutting corners, lazy or doing work not required to rip off customers. Sstealing money is more accurate descrip. .

 

[james t kirk]

So many thoughts......

First off, and most importantly, any tradesperson who is not charging himself or his workers out at at LEAST $50.00 per hour is not going to be in business very long.

Two, the public at large are MORONS when it comes to the cost of construction. Everyone thinks they are getting ripped off, no matter what the price, unless the price is a fraction of what they expected, or some guys does them a supreme favour.

Three, the public at large HAS NO FUCKING CLUE as to the scope of work of your average project. I often have friends ask me my advice on problems or projects with their homes (and they never listen because I tell them the correct way to fix something and the correct way is going to be expensive. Long story.) But I wish I had a dime for every time I heard them say, "It's just a whatever". Ok, if it's "just a whatever", then you do it. Example. A friend wants to buy a house in Greektown off the Danforth. It's expensive. But they figure that they can rent out the basement to help pay the mortgage. Ok, whatever. He says to me, "how much to put in a basement walkout?" I say 30 grand. They stare, scoff, roll their eyes, almost choke. "It's JUST a door", they say. I smirk. "Ok, then you do it", I respond. So I go through how it's going to cost 30 grand. I add up all the scope of work. Excavation, disposal of spoils, underpin existing foundation wall, smash through existing foundation wall without bringing the back of the house down, rework said foundation wall. Sump pump system with battery backup, drains, then build the retaining wall, SM insulation under slab, rebar, stairs, light, railing, waterproofing, backfilling, grading, sod. Oh, and the price of a good door. They don't believe me and find a flunky who says he can do it for 8 or 9 grand and laugh at me, saying I don't know what I'm talking about, or I'm too rich.... Ok, whatever. Flunky starts the work. (Shows up in running shoes.) No permit, no design. Brings a door from Home Depot on his truck on day one. Long story short, he undermines their foundation (yes, door is in and foamed in place with foam everywhere.) Builds a retaining wall out of 8" block (bad block job.) Everything moves. "JTK, come help us PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE". (No, I'm not a tradesman, long story, but I know my way round better than most tradesmen.) Ends up costing them 50 grand, plus whatever they paid the flunky.)

Four, people have been watching too much Holmes on Homes and they think that what they see on Holmes is reality and that level of dream-world service is what they should get (but not have to pay for). People, Holmes is not reality. Holmes is bullshit, Mike Holmes himself is bullshit.

 

[rgkv]

I was told by a plumber that he does not charge less than $250 for any visit no matter how small. Even if it is to change a U trap under the sink. He tells me that he can not stay in business for any less. If it is just a simple unscrewing and 2 nuts and reinstall of the U trap under the sink he tells me most plumbers will wrench connecting tubes off and claim that the fittings were all corroded and need changing to extend the time or they may claim not to have that right parts and run off and get them for you ( at your expense )

I do simple for myself like changing U traps, changing faucets and electrical work like changing wall switches and electrical wall sockets. I just did an under sink job that took 90 minutes and $20 of parts. I suspect that a plumber would have charged me 3 or 4 hours ( $300-$400 ) and $60-80 for the parts.

What are your small job electrician and plumber stories? Have you ever been soaked bad?

It's all fine and dandy if you can do the repairs yourself, some, men included, believe me I am in the business, can't. So you must hire. If a plumber comes, does work and later there is a leak, $3000 ceiling below is ruined. Good thing that plumber had insurance....must come out of that 250..
Same as the extra vehicle he needs, the extra truck insurance you need, an extra phone. gas, no time now to do another job today so this is all he makes for the day..
I know some charge a little more than need be but there is more to being self employed than people realize.

 

[Marla]

So many thoughts......

First off, and most importantly, any tradesperson who is not charging himself or his workers out at at LEAST $50.00 per hour is not going to be in business very long.

Two, the public at large are MORONS when it comes to the cost of construction. Everyone thinks they are getting ripped off, no matter what the price, unless the price is a fraction of what they expected, or some guys does them a supreme favour.

Three, the public at large HAS NO FUCKING CLUE as to the scope of work of your average project. I often have friends ask me my advice on problems or projects with their homes (and they never listen because I tell them the correct way to fix something and the correct way is going to be expensive. Long story.) But I wish I had a dime for every time I heard them say, "It's just a whatever". Ok, if it's "just a whatever", then you do it. Example. A friend wants to buy a house in Greektown off the Danforth. It's expensive. But they figure that they can rent out the basement to help pay the mortgage. Ok, whatever. He says to me, "how much to put in a basement walkout?" I say 30 grand. They stare, scoff, roll their eyes, almost choke. "It's JUST a door", they say. I smirk. "Ok, then you do it", I respond. So I go through how it's going to cost 30 grand. I add up all the scope of work. Excavation, disposal of spoils, underpin existing foundation wall, smash through existing foundation wall without bringing the back of the house down, rework said foundation wall. Sump pump system with battery backup, drains, then build the retaining wall, SM insulation under slab, rebar, stairs, light, railing, waterproofing, backfilling, grading, sod. Oh, and the price of a good door. They don't believe me and find a flunky who says he can do it for 8 or 9 grand and laugh at me, saying I don't know what I'm talking about, or I'm too rich.... Ok, whatever. Flunky starts the work. (Shows up in running shoes.) No permit, no design. Brings a door from Home Depot on his truck on day one. Long story short, he undermines their foundation (yes, door is in and foamed in place with foam everywhere.) Builds a retaining wall out of 8" block (bad block job.) Everything moves. "JTK, come help us PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE". (No, I'm not a tradesman, long story, but I know my way round better than most tradesmen.) Ends up costing them 50 grand, plus whatever they paid the flunky.)

Four, people have been watching too much Holmes on Homes and they think that what they see on Holmes is reality and that level of dream-world service is what they should get (but not have to pay for). People, Holmes is not reality. Holmes is bullshit, Mike Holmes himself is bullshit.

Don't quote me on it but apparently Holmes went out of business because he couldn't turn a profit he was so much of a perfectionist. You can't make money and build according to Holmes. In your above example you are so right on. Plus add in your division for laundry room, fire retardent doors according to code, fire egress, proper ventilation and you have cost, cost , cost. Joe do it yourselfer wouldn't no about code and would be building an illegal basesment apt. in more ways than one.

 

[james t kirk]

I actually like Holmes' work ethic and I dunno about him going out of business (prior to the show) for being a perfectionist. Perfectionist contractors exist, but they are more expensive and your average slob home-owner won't abide by the prices.

What I hate about Holmes is he became a blow-hard.

He pontificates on and on and on about contractors doing shitty work, but he never faults the homeowner for hiring the cheapest guy (and getting what they paid for). When HOH started out, it was legit and I loved watching it, but as time went on, they started taking on bigger and bigger jobs that were more sexy and more ooohhh and awwww factor. It became clear to me in these later episodes that it was utter bullshit, that the contractors weren't so much at fault as the home-owners, or what Holmes would do was way way beyond what was the original problem. (Granny has a cracked tile floor in her kitchen, Holmes will build her a new fucking kitchen from top to bottom, complete with stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops.)

Example, there was an episode where a house had a fire, a relatively small fire that the Insurance Company paid to have repaired. The Contractor in question did a very average job, but there were other issues associated with the house that had NOTHING to do with fire and in rides Holmes on his white horse. (Example, the garage out back was falling down, the sewer pipe (clay) was broken under the basement floor, there was an old oil tank buried in the back yard.) Holmes basically gutted the house and yard and redid everything and made it seem like the lady and her daughter had been ripped off. They had not been ripped off. They were at fault since they lived there forever and they let their house fall into a state of disrepair.

The show became utter nonsense and Holmes himself started to look like a dick.

 

[Viggo Rasmussen]

All I can add to this story is from my professional experience, there are more horny electricians than any other trade.

Did they refuse your tran sister?

:eyebrows:

 

[Linds]

Being a contractor myself, the saying goes "cheaper pays twice"... With that being said I have quoted so many jobs where the clients have gone with the cheaper alternative and then called me back to correct the problems, which now cost even more because of the wrong materials and labour applied to the job. Some trades have employees whom see the $ being charged and assume they can do it on their own and start their own business with limited experience.

Point is, between, WSIB, Insurance, Gas, Automotive Expenses, Payroll, Rent, Phone Lines, Hydro and the rest of it including the big bad word of "Profit" at the end of the day, one should expect to pay something for even a guy to show up and give you a written quote. I give a free quote "over the phone" from what I've been told by the client, but if you want me to come and look at what you have as a problem then you're paying me for my time to come and see exactly what the problem is and what all will be involved in correcting it to code.

If you can't afford my time or any other contractors time to see your problems, then it's time you go out and buy the tools, learn how to fix it yourself and we will all live a better life. I love it when people complain about the cost, espically when the cheaper guy didn't fix the actual problem or made it worse.... We call these clients "ask holes"' they'll do everything opposite of what you've told them that needs to be done.

 

[greyhaired]

JTK said it better than I ever could have. Mike Holmes would instantly earn my respect if he ever looked into the camera and said, " This problem isn't the fault of the contractor who did the job. It's the fault of the people who hired a fly by night to do the cheapest job possible and they got what they paid for."

Most employees, those that work regular nine to five jobs never consider that all the things mentioned above, insurance, licencing fees , advertising, repairs , wages, etc, etc, are covered by the costs of the goods and services their company sells or provide. Tell any salaried employee that he or she will have to drive three hours round trip in city traffic to spend five minutes on the job fixing something they find simple but is impossible for the customer to fix and then try telling them that they won't get paid for their time spent or their services because the repair was so simple...... just try it I dare you!

As a contractor myself, it happens all the time. " My widget is broken and it's a piece of junk come and replace it!" Two hours travel, press the start button on the computer ( just an example folks) problem solved..... how do you say to the stupid customer that will be $250.00? You should be able to collect it, if the shoe was on the other foot THEY would expect to be paid, but if you do try to collect it you are a rip off artist.

End of rant

 

[shrek71]

I actually like Holmes' work ethic and I dunno about him going out of business (prior to the show) for being a perfectionist. Perfectionist contractors exist, but they are more expensive and your average slob home-owner won't abide by the prices.

What I hate about Holmes is he became a blow-hard.

He pontificates on and on and on about contractors doing shitty work, but he never faults the homeowner for hiring the cheapest guy (and getting what they paid for). When HOH started out, it was legit and I loved watching it, but as time went on, they started taking on bigger and bigger jobs that were more sexy and more ooohhh and awwww factor. It became clear to me in these later episodes that it was utter bullshit, that the contractors weren't so much at fault as the home-owners, or what Holmes would do was way way beyond what was the original problem. (Granny has a cracked tile floor in her kitchen, Holmes will build her a new fucking kitchen from top to bottom, complete with stainless steel appliances and granite counter tops.)

Putting things back on the home owner is a pretty weak argument. Home owners aren't in the construction business and don't know all of the ins and outs of doing any given project. That is the reason they are talking to building contractors in the first place. I will concede the point that the finishes Mike Holmes chooses are high end and over the top. However to say that the work he does beneath the finishes you see is excessive, I don't agree with. Even just fixing structure, electrical, HVAC, plumbing and insulation to minimum code would be a vast improvement to the work that he rips out because of the problems. So even just going a bit above minimum code by using better products/materials and methods, I don't have an issue with.

As with anything, there are two general categories of ways to do things, 1) properly and 2) over.

Someone else pointed out that the cheap job ends up costing the most in the end as it needs to be redone at some point.


Cheers

 

[shrek71]

JTK said it better than I ever could have. Mike Holmes would instantly earn my respect if he ever looked into the camera and said, " This problem isn't the fault of the contractor who did the job. It's the fault of the people who hired a fly by night to do the cheapest job possible and they got what they paid for."

That is utter bullshit. There are lots of examples that Mike Holmes covers on his show where home owners were taken for obscene amounts of money for the "little" amount of actual work done. I would think that home owners want a job that is done properly, to code, in a reasonable amount of time and for a reasonable cost.

Cheers

 

[james t kirk]

Most employees, those that work regular nine to five jobs never consider that all the things mentioned above, insurance, licencing fees , advertising, repairs , wages, etc, etc, are covered by the costs of the goods and services their company sells or provide. Tell any salaried employee that he or she will have to drive three hours round trip in city traffic to spend five minutes on the job fixing something they find simple but is impossible for the customer to fix and then try telling them that they won't get paid for their time spent or their services because the repair was so simple...... just try it I dare you!

As a contractor myself, it happens all the time. " My widget is broken and it's a piece of junk come and replace it!" Two hours travel, press the start button on the computer ( just an example folks) problem solved..... how do you say to the stupid customer that will be $250.00? You should be able to collect it, if the shoe was on the other foot THEY would expect to be paid, but if you do try to collect it you are a rip off artist.

End of rant

Most people (and those who work for large corporations) think that if you pay a guy $40.00 an hour, that they should pay $40.00 an hour if you're doing that job for them.

In my industry, our charge out rates vary as a multiplier of salary.

In other words, if you pay a person $50.00 per hour (or about 100 g's per year), you charge him out at anywhere from 2.0 to 3.6 times his base hourly rate. So if my company is paying an employee $50.00 per hour, we charge him out at anywhere from $100 to $175 per hour. Usually, we try to aim for a chargeout rate of 2.6. (Because although we may pay him $50.00 per hour, there is a 30% payroll burden (fringe, vacation, stat days, EI, Welfare, CPP, insurance, etc. all on top of that, which rounds out to about 30% burden on top. So 1.3. Double it to cover the company's overhead, fixed costs, profit, etc. So 2.6 times salary.

So, our clients see a guy being charged at $130.00 per hour and they think he's being paid at $130.00 per hour. Not even close. Or (more often than not), they figure, well, if I had a guy like him on staff, I would be paying him $50.00 per hour.

They never consider that payroll burden, nor do they consider that even they have fixed costs that would take his salary to at least 2.0 to 2.1.

They just think you are ripping them off.

So for all that .5 times salary, we do all the managing, all the work, and TAKE ALL THE RISK, and when the project is done, we go away.

But you can't tell them that because they won't believe you. They just figure that it's worth $50.00 an hour because that's what you're paying Dave to do the work and that they could just hire Dave.

Sigh.....

 

[SkyRider]

A few years ago I needed to replace an old toilet. A neighbor/friend said he and a "plumber" he knows can do the job for $425. How do you refuse a friend? After multiple attempts the new toilet was still leaking. Finally, American Standard (bless them) sent their own plumber (at no cost) and he fixed it in 10 minutes.