Toronto's $1 billion HELLHOLE

[icespot]

*sighs* at another person who has presumably graduated high school with less than stellar results
No the Constitution has nothing to do with your presumption of innocence and furthermore does not grant you any of the rights you mistakenly attribute to it

You have confused our Constitution with our Charter of Rights & Freedoms

Lol

Before you correct a person Chief, you should know what your talking about.

Canada's constitution goes back to the Magna Carta for example.

Do you know what is the Constitution Act of 1982?

Our Constitution is written and unwritten, so the poste is Correct, when he stated we are granted Rights Under our Constitution. It's the Supreme Law of the Land.

Our Constitution is what limits the powers of the state in how they treat the people.

 

[dirkd101]

I'm glad that we live in a society that mostly doesn't think the way you do. "Innocent until proven guilty" is a hallmark of Western justice for a reason.

What's lost in our society in this day and age of rights is the fact that those people are in there while awaiting due process. They aren't in there because they are innocents, but rather the fact that they are guilty and our system is such that the crown has to prove their guilt. Innocent until proven guilty is for innocent people, not those who are locked up awaiting trial. Very few innocent people are found in jail. Technicalities and other procedural issues does not prove innocence, nor does it make oneself innocent of doing the crime.

 

[Dawgger]

What's lost in our society in this day and age of rights is the fact that those people are in there while awaiting due process. They aren't in there because they are innocents, but rather the fact that they are guilty and our system is such that the crown has to prove their guilt. Innocent until proven guilty is for innocent people, not those who are locked up awaiting trial. Very few innocent people are found in jail. Technicalities and other procedural issues does not prove innocence, not does it make oneself innocent of doing the crime.

Well said!

 

[SADVOCACY]

Let's be honest here, it's not a herculean task to get bail in this province. Unless the cops catch you walking down the street holding your victims head in one hand and a bloody knife in the other, you'll have access to bail.

I respectfully disagree. Bail hearings are a crap shoot even in the best of circumstances. There are no guarantees.

 

[SADVOCACY]

Although not yet convicted they are hardly "legally innocent" (you seem to like this term and emphasize it several times)
Not even close to the same thing as presumption of innocence which is what we actually have in this country

I use the term "LEGALLY INNOCENT" because it is accurate. Presumption of innocence = person hasn't been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt = legally innocent.

I'd also point out people who are denied bail or have huge sums that noone is willing to pay tends to point towards guilty.

Wrong again, friend. People can be denied bail for any number of reasons, and not getting bail is NOT a reliable indicator of guilt. That's the whole point of this discussion. Individuals can be denied bail due to less than stellar records and/or limited access to a strong support network and/or underlying issues such as poverty, homelessness, mental illness and/or any other factor that bears no relation to their factual guilt.

 

[SADVOCACY]

What's lost in our society in this day and age of rights is the fact that those people are in there while awaiting due process. They aren't in there because they are innocents, but rather the fact that they are guilty and our system is such that the crown has to prove their guilt. Innocent until proven guilty is for innocent people, not those who are locked up awaiting trial. Very few innocent people are found in jail. Technicalities and other procedural issues does not prove innocence, nor does it make oneself innocent of doing the crime.

Nope. Innocent people get locked up awaiting trial ALLLLLLLL the time. If you consider our fundamental rights and freedoms mere "technicalities" we are not on the same page. Also, in Canada, nobody needs to "prove innocence." The Crown's job is to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. That happens at trial. Those locked up in the Toronto South Detention Centre are awaiting trial, i.e. the Crown hasn't proven guilt yet.

 

[SADVOCACY]

*sighs* at another person who has presumably graduated high school with less than stellar results
No the Constitution has nothing to do with your presumption of innocence and furthermore does not grant you any of the rights you mistakenly attribute to it

You have confused our Constitution with our Charter of Rights & Freedoms

Lord, grant me the confidence of a mediocre & uninformed man.

The Charter is PART of the Constitution.

 

[SADVOCACY]

I recall reading an article about this subject not that long ago. It stated that justices of the peace are fearful of granting bail and then the accused committing another crime while on bail. As a result many accused that are not a risk to society are held in jail unnecessarily until their trial. There have been reports about the detention centre in London where there are problems caused by overcrowding. Many of those locked up waiting for trial are charged with non violent crimes such as shop lifting.
I remember a report in the newspaper a few years ago about 2 men who were arrested on the same night in London. One was charged with spray painting graffiti, the other with a serious assault where the victim ended up in the hospital. The graffiti artist was set to jail and guy charged with assault was released on his own recognizance. Doesn't make sense to me.

Doesn't make sense to me either... :sad:

The seeming arbitrariness of the process is totally bonkers. I myself wouldn't have believed it prior to working in the system.

 

[malata]

I use the term "LEGALLY INNOCENT" because it is accurate. Presumption of innocence = person hasn't been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt = legally innocent.

That Simpson's "Dream Team" of trail lawyers, sure did a good job in planting 'reasonable doubt' in the minds of the jury.

 

[nottyboi]

wow what a shit show. It amazes me all the law and order types here chime in. One allegation of paid sex with an under age escort and you could find yourself in that hell hole. There are gonna be some pretty huge lawsuits coming from this.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Who is this SADVOCACY guy???

Is he some kind of advocate, a lawyer, an agency owner, a porn producer or a public figure??

Who the hell is he....LOL???

 

[SchlongConery]

Who is this SADVOCACY guy???

Is he some kind of advocate, a lawyer, an agency owner, a porn producer or a public figure??

Who the hell is he....LOL???

She is a lawyer who is supporting your TERB addiction by advertising her services and also is looking to participate in conversations.

You and the others are going to teach her real fast not to bother.

 

[SchlongConery]

*sighs* at another person who has presumably graduated high school with less than stellar results
No the Constitution has nothing to do with your presumption of innocence and furthermore does not grant you any of the rights you mistakenly attribute to it

You have confused our Constitution with our Charter of Rights & Freedoms

Although not yet convicted they are hardly "legally innocent" (you seem to like this term and emphasize it several times)
Not even close to the same thing as presumption of innocence which is what we actually have in this country

I'd also point out people who are denied bail or have huge sums that noone is willing to pay tends to point towards guilty

It never ceases to astound me that there are so many people out there who really do not know what they are talking about, yet are so confident of their opinions that they make a huge fool of themselves shooting of their mouths.

For anyone to even attempt to overcome your misapprehensions of criminal law, the Charter and the Constitution would be as stupid as your statements.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

She is a lawyer who is supporting your TERB addiction by advertising her services and also is looking to participate in conversations.

You and the others are going to teach her real fast not to bother

Then I wanna sees some tits.

And I wanna see them fast

 

[Promo]

Then I wanna sees some tits.

And I wanna see them fast

Look down. Those droopy lumps are called man tits.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

:bolt:

 

[chuckaction]

Just to be fair, the first 3 superjails, Maplehurst,Central North and Central East were built by the Conservative Party. The Liberals get the blame for the South Detention. All 4 are massive screw-ups! The liberals just announced the hiring of 400 guards for the South. Saw the add 24.00 an hour part time no benefits.

 

[TeeJay]

Our Constitution is written and unwritten

This is just as funny as original post I lampooned
Our Constitution is WRITTEN genius
Yes courts will make interpretations, but they certainly will not introduce a precedent that is not mentioned anywhere in the document

The rest of your post is nonsense and shows you have no clue what is actually written there so not much point in arguing with you
But there are no "rights" defined anywhere in it (to the contrary it sets out things like principles of government and branches of government)

 

[TeeJay]

Wrong again, friend. People can be denied bail for any number of reasons, and not getting bail is NOT a reliable indicator of guilt

99% of the time it is
HOWEVER other issues (such as flight risk or public interest can influence that other 1%)

The only reason other than that someone could not post bail would be extreme poverty (but in that case one wonders how they afford all their vices anyways)

 

[GPIDEAL]

Lord, grant me the confidence of a mediocre & uninformed man.

The Charter is PART of the Constitution.

Maybe he was looking at The Constitution Act, 1867.

It's here in the Constitution Act, 1982 TeeJay => http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/Const/page-15.html