Toronto Sun - Ontario teachers headed for court

[Moviefan-2]

I say, all the power to them, lets hope we all can make that much.

So how do you feel about the way the teachers are being demonized by McGuinty?

 

[frankcastle]

Why do teachers feel they have right or deserve to own a cottage so their wages have to be high enough to do so? Owning a cottage is a privilege than many can't afford. The average Canadian made $46.000 in 2011. The average teacher's salary in 2011 was $83,865. Almost double the average, not too shabby I would say.
http://www.nucleuslearning.com/node/3158

You missed my point I was trying to show that teacher's who can afford a cottage are rare. I in no way was suggesting that they should have cottages.

I wasn't suggesting that they are not well paid. It's a good job.

 

[frankcastle]

Some people like to paint teachers as having a sense of entitlement. But it's no different than any other union that goes on strike.

Being paid by tax money doesn't mean that they should lose the right to negotiate or strike. Doesn't mean they should get their demands. And given that hte catholic union agreed to all the cuts who knows how far or close the public union will be?

People are assuming that hte teachers are looking to keep everything but that may not be the case as we are not privy to what the negotiating team is planning.

I

 

[fun-guy]

Why do people here always try to take down others?

Sure, they should be able to afford cottages and so should all of us. Seems to me that was pretty common in the '70's and '80's and whats changed since then?
Division of wealth.
Now the middle class are all under pressure while the upper incomes are doing just dandy.
So why do you think they shouldn't make that much?
Jealous?

I say, all the power to them, lets hope we all can make that much.

You missed the point, let's carry on.

btw, who's paying for all these increases for public servants? You don't have to hope they all can make much, just open your wallet and pay higher taxes and they'll make your hope a reality. McGuinty would be more than happy to give the teachers a hefty increase, and the doctors, and civil servants..........just keep increasing taxes on Ontario businesses and the public sector. Something tells me they won't like that. Stick to your day job, politics isn't for you.

Jealous? Hardly, you have no clue what I make, or what I've made the last 30 years, let's just say I'm quite comfortable.

 

[JohnLarue]

Why do people here always try to take down others?

Sure, they should be able to afford cottages and so should all of us. Seems to me that was pretty common in the '70's and '80's and whats changed since then?
Division of wealth.
Now the middle class are all under pressure while the upper incomes are doing just dandy.
So why do you think they shouldn't make that much?
Jealous?

I say, all the power to them, lets hope we all can make that much.

That is economically unsustainable
I guessed you missed that economics lecture and I will wager a bet your sponsor at the communist party did not inform you about this unintended but very real consequence of a socialist state

 

[groggy]

That is economically unsustainable
I guessed you missed that economics lecture and I will wager a bet your sponsor at the communist party did not inform you about this unintended but very real consequence of a socialist state

Nonsense.
We can afford it, we used to be able to afford it before all the tax breaks to the upper classes and corporations.
What's untenable is the growing loss of the middle class which drives our consumer economy.

 

[JohnLarue]

Nonsense.
We can afford it, we used to be able to afford it before all the tax breaks to the upper classes and corporations.
What's untenable is the growing loss of the middle class which drives our consumer economy.

Nonsense ??
Paying a teacher 83K for 9 1/2 months of work (that is a stretch)when the average taxpayer makes 46K is nonsense

Please provide proof that teachers salary was historically ever this high relative to the average taxpayers income.
Rather than a net asset to the province, they have become a burden.
We can not afford it.

As for corp tax rates , Ontario reneged on a commitment to lower its corp tax rate this year
Breaking such a commitment is a rather serious issue for a govt looking for investments to create jobs
It is the alarm bell that the provinces finances are in a mess

Consumer economy??
Do you have any idea where the majority of Canadian dollars spent on consumer goods go?

Exactly where did you learn economics?

 

[groggy]

Nonsense ??
Paying a teacher 83K for 9 1/2 months of work (that is a stretch)when the average taxpayer makes 46K is nonsense

Please provide proof that teachers salary was historically ever this high relative to the average taxpayers income.
Rather than a net asset to the province, they have become a burden.
We can not afford it.

As for corp tax rates , Ontario reneged on a commitment to lower its corp tax rate this year
Breaking such a commitment is a rather serious issue for a govt looking for investments to create jobs
It is the alarm bell that the provinces finances are in a mess

Consumer economy??
Do you have any idea where the majority of Canadian dollars spent on consumer goods go?

Exactly where did you learn economics?

It took you 10 days to come up with that reply?
Sheesh.

Here, read this and think about it.

A congressional research service is challenging the candidates who say that preserving Bush-era tax breaks for the rich are a way to increase jobs.

In fact, the non-partisan Congressional Research Service not only found no evidence that six decades of relief for the wealthy helped the nation's economy, they also warned that this may have expanded the gap between the rich and the poor.

"The reduction in the top tax rates appears to be uncorrelated with saving, investment and productivity growth," researchers wrote in their latest report to Congress.

http://www.ctmirror.org/story/17498/nonpartisan-congressional-study-tax-breaks-rich-dont-grow-jobs

Now you don't have to take my word, you can read the research and the words of some experts.

 

[Moviefan-2]

It looks like the teachers may defy the government and go on strike (illegal strikes, I guess) if they don't get what they want.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...hers-vote-in-favour-of-strike/article4570412/

 

[basketcase]

Someone told me that the bill doesn't ban strikes but gives the government the ability to end any strike action without bringing in back to work legislation.

 

[FAST]

The union religion

It looks like the teachers may defy the government and go on strike (illegal strikes, I guess) if they don't get what they want.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...hers-vote-in-favour-of-strike/article4570412/

HEY,...don't you know civil servant unions are above the law,...and everbody else for that matter.

A liitle off subject,...I don't understand why the teachers unions keep stating that the government is ripping up the contract,...there is NO contract to rip up,...the last one will be replaced (maybe) by a new one,...the last one is meaningless !!!

FAST

 

[oldjones]

HEY,...don't you know civil servant unions are above the law,...and everbody else for that matter.

A liitle off subject,...I don't understand why the teachers unions keep stating that the government is ripping up the contract,...there is NO contract to rip up,...the last one will be replaced (maybe) by a new one,...the last one is meaningless !!!

FAST

Wrong. The last contract described the process for replacing it with a new one. It continues to be a contract until all its provisions expire, not just when the date for negociating a new one arrives. Like any civil contract, it can be overturned and dictated by law. But even the government hasn't been so stupid as to equate its legislated settlement with a contract, which is an agreement between two willing parties to exchange value on negociated terms.

The contract is now dead and replaced by a diktat, but it ain't meaningless, either to the teachers, or to the government that has to cope with a huge and resentful workforce that sends its message directly into every parent's home.

 

[FAST]

The union religion

Wrong. The last contract described the process for replacing it with a new one. It continues to be a contract until all its provisions expire, not just when the date for negociating a new one arrives. Like any civil contract, it can be overturned and dictated by law. But even the government hasn't been so stupid as to equate its legislated settlement with a contract, which is an agreement between two willing parties to exchange value on negociated terms.

The contract is now dead and replaced by a diktat, but it ain't meaningless, either to the teachers, or to the government that has to cope with a huge and resentful workforce that sends its message directly into every parent's home.

I have to admit that I have only been involved with none civil servant contracts, so I don't profess to be an "expert" on civil servant contracts,...so,...I have a problem understanding you when you say their contract continues to be a contract until all its provisions expire, of coarse its still a contract until its expiry date,...then it is not a valid contract,...everything in the now expired contract is null and void,...don't mean shit, they can say they want to take away everything we fought for,...that was then,...this NOW.

Even the CAW understands and has experienced this !!!

In the real world,...you start over,...and if the two parties can't come to an agreement,...then everybody is free to walk away,...but as teachers are CIVIL SERVANTS,...you know,... work for the government,...the government has the power to dictate what’s going to happen next.

That is reality.

And last but not least,…like anybody gives a shit if the teachers aren’t happy,…the MAJORITY of employed people have been unhappy with their situation, you have a choice,…you do your job or leave,…but again,…that’s reality.

sends its message directly into every parent's home,...do that,...they should be fired !!!

FAST

 

[JohnLarue]

It took you 10 days to come up with that reply?
Sheesh.

Here, read this and think about it.

http://www.ctmirror.org/story/17498/nonpartisan-congressional-study-tax-breaks-rich-dont-grow-jobs

Now you don't have to take my word, you can read the research and the words of some experts.

You are a damn fool
You freely interchange corp tax increases, taxes on the rich and HST taxes, throughout this debate, advocating all should go up in order to fund excess compensation for the public sector employees.

In each case there is an increased risk of job losses for the private sector employees
ie. the average guy making $46K

You can quote all the studies you want
At the end of the day tax increases will cost private sector jobs


You have no right to place that risk on private sector employees for the enrichment of public sector employees who do not bear any of that risk.

And you have no right to ask private sector employees to bear that risk because you support a theory which just so happens to align with your view of how the world should be

That view is Utopian and unrealistic
Yes it would be really nice if everyone had the same outrageous deal teachers do and it would be nice if everyone could afford a cottage.
That is economically unrealistic
The sooner you realize this the sooner people will take you seriously

 

[groggy]

You can quote all the studies you want
At the end of the day tax increases will cost private sector jobs

Right.

In other words, you've bought into the religion and no amount of science, rational thought or evidence will get in the way.
I'm familiar with your type.

 

[fun-guy]

Wrong. The last contract described the process for replacing it with a new one. It continues to be a contract until all its provisions expire, not just when the date for negociating a new one arrives.

...I have a problem understanding you when you say their contract continues to be a contract until all its provisions expire, of coarse its still a contract until its expiry date,...then it is not a valid contract,...everything in the now expired contract is null and void,...don't mean shit, they can say they want to take away everything we fought for,...that was then,...this NOW.

I gotta agree with Fast, don't understand what you're trying to say there oldjones. I'm quite familiar with public service contracts, so please clarify what you're saying. What FAST has said is totally accurate.

 

[JohnLarue]

Right.

In other words, you've bought into the religion and no amount of science, rational thought or evidence will get in the way.
I'm familiar with your type.

Thats too funny
You want radical changes to establish a society just a hair to the right of Karl Marx and you say I bought into the religion ?

No comrade, I have common sense.
You might want to try some one day.

Here is an exercise for you.
Each time you come up with a idea how to make society better or fix what you may perceive as a problem, spend an extra 10 mins and think about how others might react to what you propose.

Most rational people realize quickly some ideas might sound good they just are not practical

You , however appear to have blind unquestioned obedience to you commie over lords

You are going to be very disappointed as your commie dream is never going to fly in this country

However please keep providing us with comic relief.
Crack pots like you make the Liberals appear semi-rational

 

[JohnLarue]

Right.

In other words, you've bought into the religion and no amount of science, rational thought or evidence will get in the way.
I'm familiar with your type.

I also happen to know a number of your targets (the rich) and let me assure you, they will not stand still for what you propose.
They will take their assets, companies and jobs elsewhere

Your studies are just that, a paper to get ones name published.

Better you ask a few rich folk.
Better yet, there is an real live experiment happening right now in France
Watch in horror as this blows up and money and jobs exit so fast it will make your head spin.
Best suggestion yet, move to France

 

[groggy]

Thats too funny
You want radical changes to establish a society just a hair to the right of Karl Marx and you say I bought into the religion ?

No comrade, I have common sense.
You might want to try some one day.

Here is an exercise for you.
Each time you come up with a idea how to make society better or fix what you may perceive as a problem, spend an extra 10 mins and think about how others might react to what you propose.

Most rational people realize quickly some ideas might sound good they just are not practical

You , however appear to have blind unquestioned obedience to you commie over lords

You are going to be very disappointed as your commie dream is never going to fly in this country

However please keep providing us with comic relief.
Crack pots like you make the Liberals appear semi-rational

That's it?
Just got insults, eh?

That's what I thought.
You don't really know what you're talking about, all you've got are slogans and insults.

 

[JohnLarue]

That's it?
Just got insults, eh?

That's what I thought.
You don't really know what you're talking about, all you've got are slogans and insults.

No comrade I have common sense
Try it sometime