But that is the opposite of what the gun rights advocacy groups say. How can that be?
Toronto shootings
- Thread starter Phil C. McNasty
- Start date
You fail to understand Canadian gun laws and how illegal guns find their way into Canada.
All legal handguns in Canada are registered. They can all be traced through the firearms registry and through the manufacturer's serial number. Each and every handgun sale/transfer must be approved by the provincial Chief Firearms Officer (OPP in Ontario).
Even if a handgun is registered, the person who has possession must have a licence. If you don't have a licence, you are committing a criminal offense if you have one even though it's registered. (You can go to prison)
Any criminal/gangbanger with a handgun on them is already breaking the law. It doesn't matter if it's registered or not if that person doesn't have a firearms license.
Unfortunately, when the police catch a criminal with a firearm, the gun charges are usually dropped as part of a plea bargain. So charges of an armed robbery with a firearm are reduced to simple theft if the criminal pleads guilty to the theft, and if he had been locked up in remand, he's released immediately for time served. So much for deterrence. (they usually get bail anyway)
Firearms entering from the US are originally legally purchased by persons who pass the FBI background check. These people then sell them to other persons who smuggle them across the border. The serial numbers of these handguns are erased so that they cannot be traced back to the original purchaser, who would then be committing a felony: trafficking in firearms and illegally exporting without a licence.
Criminals who break into a Canadian residence to steal guns are not concerned with erasing the serial numbers. However, the Toronto Police Service deems recovered guns with erased serial numbers to have come from Canadian sources because they cannot be identified. How convenient as a pretext to start the disarming of the Canadian population. Although you will never get a firearms license in Canada if your stated purpose is self-defense, canadian police chiefs want a monopoly of force. That's where TPS prevaricating comes from.
Hey, Phil. Aside from other factors, the first thing I don't see is how many homicides were via guns in general and specifically via handguns. It just says homicides.Have a look at this, shack. Chicago has some of the toughest gun control laws in the US
Does no gun stores mean that a resident of Chicago is not able to legally purchase a gun?
Does that mean that a resident of Chicago is not able to own a gun?
Does that mean a resident of Chicago is able to legally carry a gun?
Are there gun shows in Chicago where people can buy guns?
Therefore that chart proves nothing, except that cold weather causes murders. LOL. Also, what is the source of those stats?
When someone uses logic, shack wants proof.
When someone has proof, shack points to his simplistic strawman logic.
Also, shack has no idea about proportionality and cost benefit.
Banning all legal handguns means police enforcement. That is, police now are after former law-abiding citizens who have now become criminals if they did not comply. If police are to carry on with their other usual tasks, then they need more money for the extra work, or they cut down on what they were doing before, meaning more crime; already, they dont' even show up for break and enters anymore. Little effect on crime because the guns that were always illegal are not going to be turned in by their gangbanger owners. More money for more police and prosecutions means less money for the rest of the Provincial budget. Half of that budget is for health care. Less money for health care means more people dying because of longer waiting lists. You can also forget about timely access to mental heath care, for those with suicidal tendencies, or those who are sociopathic. No reduction in gangbanger homicides, and more people dying due to lack of timely care. Banning legal guns: the law of unintended consequences. The government has better places to spend our money than to ban legal handguns. And we're not even talking about a buyback program that would cost at least half a billion dollars.
I have seen no logic. Gut instinct and anecdotal evidence. I ask for proof to verify these meritless arguments. Proof would give them merit.
Seeing as we have so many of these threads about guns and shootings (and I've never started one), evidently it is a major concern and people want something done. And think of the tens of thousands of lives that will be saved over the long haul. I guess you feel that those lives are not worth spending money on. Such a fine attitude you have.
Funny, but you didn't mention the cost of police investigations of shootings, finding and apprehending the perps, medical fees for those injured, court time which sometime last years, the cost of imprisonment etc., etc. There are no cheap options either way.
I knew one short simple post would get all you guys wound up. Three pages later all you can talk about is my suggestion. You are all too predictable.
"Less guns=less shooting, just the same as
Less cars=less traffic."
This would be correct if both were not manufactured anymore. I know many people who have vehicles on the road without proper insurance. The punishment of breaking the laws need to be more sever. Banning something within the city limits (or nation wide) is not enough. The criminal element will still continue doing what they know for their advantages.
I am pro gun culture in Canada. In today's society this is not a popular side to be on and I understand that. Especially with what has been happening in the GTA this year. Or at least what has finally made the news. I believe that such violence in our streets has always existed but not fully reported. Not going to go into full detail but I will say that when I was a young lad, many people I knew who passed were not acknowledged in the media.
Our Canada is a sitting duck society when it comes to self protection. The criminal element has the confidence that there will be no retaliation because it is illegal for a citizen to do so. The bad guys causing crime know they can bargain for lesser sentences when caught with a fire arm as long as they admit to a lesser crime (the reason for having that illegal firearm) because it is an easy win for the bureaucrats. The citizen has no bargain and is deemed a vigilante.
When I was a little lad, I had the pleasure of knowing someone who lived in our Toronto in 1903. From the stories I was told, a side arm was common and not scorned upon at all. Everyone carried. I know we are in a different time now and things change. But I will ask, what has changed enough to make today's world any different? "Of the past 3,400 years, humans have been entirely at peace for 268 of them, or just 8 percent of recorded history." - Wiki pedia
To keep the criminal element on their toes, I believe that we should be a little more lax with our legal gun owners here in Canada. I DO NOT want to adopt the current American policy, but think we can adopt our own, with more stridency's. Our men and women in blue should be allowed to carry while "off duty", if that is such a thing, if they choose to do so. Private restricted fire arms owners, with a black badge certification in good standing of 10 years should also be able to conceal carry.
Here might be some interesting toilet reading below.
http://www.sfu.ca/~mauser/papers/Somerset2.pdf
https://www.lawtimesnews.com/author...s-canadas-liberal-culture-towards-guns-10020/
https://cssa-cila.org/rights/a-brief-history-of-gun-control-in-canada-1867-to-1945/
Less cars=less traffic."
This would be correct if both were not manufactured anymore. I know many people who have vehicles on the road without proper insurance. The punishment of breaking the laws need to be more sever. Banning something within the city limits (or nation wide) is not enough. The criminal element will still continue doing what they know for their advantages.
I am pro gun culture in Canada. In today's society this is not a popular side to be on and I understand that. Especially with what has been happening in the GTA this year. Or at least what has finally made the news. I believe that such violence in our streets has always existed but not fully reported. Not going to go into full detail but I will say that when I was a young lad, many people I knew who passed were not acknowledged in the media.
Our Canada is a sitting duck society when it comes to self protection. The criminal element has the confidence that there will be no retaliation because it is illegal for a citizen to do so. The bad guys causing crime know they can bargain for lesser sentences when caught with a fire arm as long as they admit to a lesser crime (the reason for having that illegal firearm) because it is an easy win for the bureaucrats. The citizen has no bargain and is deemed a vigilante.
When I was a little lad, I had the pleasure of knowing someone who lived in our Toronto in 1903. From the stories I was told, a side arm was common and not scorned upon at all. Everyone carried. I know we are in a different time now and things change. But I will ask, what has changed enough to make today's world any different? "Of the past 3,400 years, humans have been entirely at peace for 268 of them, or just 8 percent of recorded history." - Wiki pedia
To keep the criminal element on their toes, I believe that we should be a little more lax with our legal gun owners here in Canada. I DO NOT want to adopt the current American policy, but think we can adopt our own, with more stridency's. Our men and women in blue should be allowed to carry while "off duty", if that is such a thing, if they choose to do so. Private restricted fire arms owners, with a black badge certification in good standing of 10 years should also be able to conceal carry.
Here might be some interesting toilet reading below.
http://www.sfu.ca/~mauser/papers/Somerset2.pdf
https://www.lawtimesnews.com/author...s-canadas-liberal-culture-towards-guns-10020/
https://cssa-cila.org/rights/a-brief-history-of-gun-control-in-canada-1867-to-1945/
The major concern is from people who see the possibility of their legally owned property being confiscated for no benefit.
You can't seem to make the difference between licensed and unlicensed (illegal) handgun owners.
You will not eliminate shootings, or even reduce their numbers by passing a law taking handguns away from their legally licensed owners. That's because most shootings are done by people who are not legally allowed to have handguns: street gangs and organized crime. The latter will not turn in their guns as a result of a gun ban (they are already banned from owning them), and they will still be able to get them through smuggling channels from the US. In short, a complete waste of money and no benefit. The police will continue to investigate shootings, find and apprehend the perps, medical fees for those injured, court time which sometime lasts years, the cost of imprisonment etc etc. There is no magic wand that will make the problem go away.
The half-million legally RCMP licensed handgun owners are NOT the ones committing most handgun crimes. It is gangbangers and gangsters.
People like 30 year veteran Staff Sergeant Major Dave Woods who was uniform policing in Surrey stated to the papers that banning legally owned handguns wouldn't make a difference, but hey, what does he know vs. shack? All Woods did was fight crime for a career.
Retired OPP Commissioner Chris Lewis also stated a handgun ban would be unfair, but all he did was run the Provincial Police, so maybe its best to ignore what he says too and just ban handguns anyway on a whim to make people like shack feel better.
The Chief Constable of Vancouver Police doesn't support a handgun ban either. Since he's only the President of the Canadian Association of Police Chiefs, he probably doesn't know anything about gun violence.
https://www.surreynowleader.com/mun...ncillor-dave-woods-resigns-from-surrey-first/
If you did some actual research on the subject, you would know that banning handguns won't do anything.
Educate yourself. Go on facts, not a hair brained idea that sounds good.
What percent of shootings in Toronto were done by people who were not legally allowed to have guns? Please provide a source.
What percent of these guns came from outside of Toronto? Source.
What percent of guns used were originally legally purchased. Source.
Do you have documented proof of your claims or is this your personal impression?
What percent of all the guns in Toronto are legally owned and how many are illegal?
I can acknowledge that they know more than I.
However, are they going by documented results from large cities with a gun problem that have previously banned handguns and found no difference? If not, then it is conjecture on their part as well.
Unless it has been tried, nobody actually knows one way or the other.
Your ignorance rivals your laziness.
Do some research instead of spewing out a knee jerk reaction suggestion on a ban.
The FACTS are out there and easily accessible on the internet.
I was right, it is getting worse. Looks like we set a few records
https://torontosun.com/news/local-n...otings-and-slayings-soar-to-new-highs-in-2018
https://torontosun.com/news/local-n...otings-and-slayings-soar-to-new-highs-in-2018
Toronto shatters shooting and slaying records in 2018
The deadliest year in the city’s history looked like it might wind down with a whimper but instead it ends with a bang as bodies continue to drop at an unprecedented rate.
With street gangs out of control and bullets flying daily, Toronto endured an alarming 96 murders in 2018 — surpassing the record high of 89 set way back in 1991.
“The gun violence is a big problem,” acting Insp. Hank Idsinga, who took the reins of the Homicide Unit in July, told the Toronto Sun recently.
Cops in the city seized more than 500 firearms in 2018.
“It’s a problem that we as a police service work hard to combat every day,” he said. “We’re taking more guns off the street and arresting more people for firearms offences than ever before.”
But Idsinga maintained enforcement alone is not enough stem the bloodshed.
“We can’t do it ourselves,” he said emphatically. “We need help from everyone in the community.”
Gun violence has increased sharply in recent years.
As of Dec. 19, there were 406 shooting occurrences and 573 shooting victims this year in Toronto. In all of 2014, there were 177 shooting occurrences and 242 shooting victims in the city.
So in just four years shootings jumped 129% and the number of victims increased by 137%.
Of the city’s 96 murder victims in 2018, 51 were killed by firearms — one less than the record of of 52 gun murders Toronto endured in 2005, notoriously known as The Year of the Gun
I'm too lazy to look it up, but I know for sure from reading the news the vast majority of murders in Chicago are committed by firearms every year
It's illegal to sell or distribute guns in Chicago. Long rifles are legal however
Chicago has banned the possession of certain semi-automatic firearms that it defines as assault weapons.
City residents can own firearms but with several conditions: You must be 21 years old and possess a firearm owner's identification (FOID) card and concealed carry license, both issued by Illinois State Police.
Prior to getting a concealed carry license, residents must complete a 16-hour training course, which includes a gun range test that residents must pass, as well as coursework on gun safety. They are also subject to a background check and must pay a $150 application fee. Applicants may be denied a concealed carry license, or have law enforcement agencies object to their applications, if they have particular criminal convictions.
Those who keep guns in the home must hold only a valid FOID card. Gun owners who carry a firearm outside the home must have an FOID and a concealed carry permit
I dont know for sure, but I dont think so
That was added by the author as a joke
