the solution is to keep these guys in jail - I don't know the stats but am willing to bet all of these fuckers are repeat offenders with each crime getting more and more brutal
Toronto shootings
- Thread starter Phil C. McNasty
- Start date
Aside from your gut instinct, what is your source?because most guns are NOT sourced in Canada they come from the USA a ban here would make no difference
So you believe that a ban on handguns would not result in any less shootings.
My inherent logic is that less guns=less shootings. What PROOF do you have that I am wrong?
Sounds fine to me.the solution is to keep these guys in jail - I don't know the stats but am willing to bet all of these fuckers are repeat offenders with each crime getting more and more brutal
I have nothing against being licensed and competent in firearm safety before owning one.Right. No one ever complains that cars have to be registered and insured and owners must pass a test to get a licence.
But let's be realistic, banning me from having my handgun won't stop Jamal from opening fire in a mall, and anyone thinking otherwise is being naive.
ChicagoAside from your gut instinct, what is your source?
So you believe that a ban on handguns would not result in any less shootings.
My inherent logic is that less guns=less shootings. What PROOF do you have that I am wrong?
The anti's on here crack me up.
They don't bother to do any research and keep parroting the same useless solutions that don't work, and go by their perceptions and not facts.
When they are presented with the facts, they just ignore them and parrot the same stance over again.
The Turd and Blair have been told by police unions, police chiefs, crime and military analysts that a ban will be ineffective. That's why bill C71 in its current form does something between sweet eff all and nothing to address crime, and that's why the Turd has even said an outright handgun ban would be difficult. The UN firearm marking scheme was deferred by the Liberal government as well.
Get a clue.
Anti's need to actually do some fact finding instead of rambling off nonsense.
This country was founded by the gun. Its part of Canadian culture. Those who think the Hudson's Bay traders were a bunch of nice guys who all got along with the natives and other traders working for rival companies over territory when hunting for pelts live in ignorance.
They don't bother to do any research and keep parroting the same useless solutions that don't work, and go by their perceptions and not facts.
When they are presented with the facts, they just ignore them and parrot the same stance over again.
The Turd and Blair have been told by police unions, police chiefs, crime and military analysts that a ban will be ineffective. That's why bill C71 in its current form does something between sweet eff all and nothing to address crime, and that's why the Turd has even said an outright handgun ban would be difficult. The UN firearm marking scheme was deferred by the Liberal government as well.
Get a clue.
Anti's need to actually do some fact finding instead of rambling off nonsense.
This country was founded by the gun. Its part of Canadian culture. Those who think the Hudson's Bay traders were a bunch of nice guys who all got along with the natives and other traders working for rival companies over territory when hunting for pelts live in ignorance.
Your logic sucks. On top of that, gun crime is not simple.Source please.
If there is no standard on reporting, where does this 90% come from. It sounds like you are pulling numbers out of your ass.
Less cars=less traffic.
Less guns-less shootings.
Simple logic, and as you've admitted there is no consistent reporting to say otherwise.
There are more cars on the road now than ever before, yet the fatality rates in Canada have gone down by 25% from 1996 to 2001.
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/tp-tp15145-1201.htm
Aside from your gut instinct, what is your source?
So you believe that a ban on handguns would not result in any less shootings.
My inherent logic is that less guns=less shootings. What PROOF do you have that I am wrong?
what PROOF do YOU have that your right?
I don't and I already clearly stated. Try reading all the words.what PROOF do YOU have that your right?
You must have also missed where I said that it is conjecture on both sides. I admit that I can't definitively prove my point. You guys are too intransigent to, god forbid, admit that you can't prove yours either. It is simply your gut instinct.
What I have going for me is rudimentary logic:
Less guns=less shooting, just the same as
Less cars=less traffic.
Your side has no such logic working for it. All you have is anecdotal evidence and your gut instincts and your passion for instruments of death.
Ask a murderous gun thug if they give a fuck about the proposed handgun ban.Aside from your gut instinct, what proof do you have that it would make no difference?
Similarly making the possession of handguns legal would not increase the murder rate among these individuals responsible for the homicides in Toronto for 2018 because again it is the person not the weapon. As long as the thug lifestyle is an attractive option to some, the problem will continue. Lots of the perpetrators are born right here in Toronto, schooled and festered in the 'system " here. Foreigners coming to Toronto who have experienced horrendous conditions far worse than anything experienced by any Toronto born gun thugs do not debase themselves to this level of self destructive carnage.
Your logic makes sense in a closed system, and I'd agree with you if Canada were an island may be,...
What I have going for me is rudimentary logic:
Less guns=less shooting, just the same as
Less cars=less traffic.
...
but you know, that long undefended border next to a prolific gun producer... we'll always have more guns not less.
Better focus on the thugs since they'd be easier to target and catch (going by gut instinct here)
I think that was the long way of saying that you have no proof. Thanks.Ask a murderous gun thug if they give a fuck about the proposed handgun ban.
Similarly making the possession of handguns legal would not increase the murder rate among these individuals responsible for the homicides in Toronto for 2018 because again it is the person not the weapon. As long as the thug lifestyle is an attractive option to some, the problem will continue. Lots of the perpetrators are born right here in Toronto, schooled and festered in the 'system " here. Foreigners coming to Toronto who have experienced horrendous conditions far worse than anything experienced by any Toronto born gun thugs do not debase themselves to this level of self destructive carnage.
Thanks for the acknowledgement, even if qualified.Your logic makes sense in a closed system, and I'd agree with you if Canada were an island may be,
but you know, that long undefended border next to a prolific gun producer... we'll always have more guns not less.
Better focus on the thugs since they'd be easier to target and catch (going by gut instinct here)
I agree that bordering the most gun happy country in the world is a problem. There is no single solution. A multi-pronged plan is needed, and banning handguns would be part of the plan.
I live down in the most gun-happy country in the world. I do not have an answer for you guys, but I will say this: over the last 20 years I have lived in 4 different states - three with very restrictive gun laws and one with very very loose gun laws. In all three states with the most strict gun laws in the country I have had close calls with guns. In the one state that has among the loosest gun laws in the country, I have never had an issue. This is all in good areas, not crime-ridden areas. Just my unscientific observations. I feel like in states and cities with very tight gun laws, the criminals know that chances are slim they will encounter somebody with a gun. In a state where anybody over 18 can own and conceal a gun, they don't know who is carrying. I travel back and forth to Canada frequently and it saddens me that crime is getting worse in TO.
How many of the shootings in Toronto were done with illegally procured guns?
How many shootings were done by guns obtained from the states?
How many shootings were done by guns obtained outside of Toronto?
How many shootings were done by guns bought legally and then sold to criminals?
How many shootings were done by guns obtained legally and stolen by criminals?
Some "accurate numbers" would help the discussion. Without them, the whole criminals will still get them is CONJECTURE.
Your logic sucks. On top of that, gun crime is not simple.
There are more cars on the road now than ever before, yet the fatality rates in Canada have gone down by 25% from 1996 to 2001.
https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/tp-tp15145-1201.htm
Exactly, good analogy, yes there are more cars than ever but less fatalities because of grid lock, the cars are often going to slow to cause a fatality in many accidents. Accidents are up but fatalities maybe down. There are many moving parts to explain any trend.
Shack has boxed himself into a corner on this one with a simplistic solution to a complex problem.
Another shooting in west end last night: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/man-seriously-wounded-shooting-queen-ossington-taxi-1.4961362
I've never advocated banning handguns. I would like them all to be registered and traceable though so the pipelines that criminals use to get guns can be better dealt with.I have nothing against being licensed and competent in firearm safety before owning one.
But let's be realistic, banning me from having my handgun won't stop Jamal from opening fire in a mall, and anyone thinking otherwise is being naive.
Less anecdotally, it seems that the states with the most gun crime have the least restrictions while the ones with the most restrictions are clustered near the safer end..... In all three states with the most strict gun laws in the country I have had close calls with guns. In the one state that has among the loosest gun laws in the country, I have never had an issue. ....
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...nce-see-where-your-state-stacks-up/359395002/
No box whatsoever. I talked about traffic, and never mentioned fatalities or even injuries or accidents. And you reinforced my point by talking about how slow the cars are going due to gridlock. That was exactly my point. More cars=more traffic, the same as more guns=more shootings.Exactly, good analogy, yes there are more cars than ever but less fatalities because of grid lock, the cars are often going to slow to cause a fatality in many accidents. Accidents are up but fatalities maybe down. There are many moving parts to explain any trend.
Shack has boxed himself into a corner on this one with a simplistic solution to a complex problem.
Thank you for not having a clue. It is amazing (and not in a good way) what some people think is a good debate point. Maybe that is the way that gun lovers' brains work.
