Toronto Maple Leafs 2010/11

[Ironhead]

The Tyler Bozak experiment is a bust. Yes, I know and knew it as about the same time as many others, he is not a #1 center. I just towed the line for a while, but it is time to admit defeat. He may be a third line player at some point, but the Marlies are a better bet for him right now. Get him away from the glare of the Leafs. That is why I thought it would be a good idea to sign Modano in the off season.
As a Leaf fan I am not pushing the panic button, but losing to the Sabres has really got me pissed off. Especially so at how they lost, losing a 2-0 lead, allowing a last second goal and ....

the stupid shootout attempts !

 

[maurice93]

I am sure that the Leafs had a scouting report to shoot on the goalie rather then deke. Than again, a team that is 11th in the conference and headed further down, may lack skill and intelligence to be succussful in shootouts.

 

[smuddan]

I totally agree Shack and i have seen these kind of comments on here lots and they are just talking out of their ass.

OK smartguy, please educate me, convince me that I'm wrong when I say that I believe the No.1 priority of MLSE is "MAKING THE PLAYOFFS" !

I chanllenge anyone to give me an example of a cup winner, other than the Montreal team with Roy, in recent NHL history that hadn't been a bottom dwellers for a number of years before they became contenders. They accumulates high draft picks and kept them as a core group, when they started to mature, then they started to add the missing veteran pieces. This has been the ONLY effective formular to build a true cup contender. It might not always work, especially if you don't draft the right players, but that's been the ONLY effect formular that I've seen in the last 35 years.

If you look back at the recent history since Peddie has been in charge, every GM hired made the same type if moves, i.e. trading away the future for immdiate success and acquiring overpaid/underperformed free agents. From Burke to JFJ to Quinn to Dryden to Smith. None of them came remoty close to follow the proven successful formular. And why ? I'd submit to you that it's because all of them had been told when they were hired, "IT'S ALL ABOUT MAKING THE PLAYOFFS". I'm not saying that MLSE doesn't want to win the cup, they may or may not I don't know, but it certainly is not a high priority as making the playoffs. In the pre cap era they were able to buy into the playoffs, but as resouceful as MLSE is, it's not possible anymore.

If you dig your head out of the sand, you may see the connection as I pointed out above; but if you still disagree, feel free to educate me and tell me why I should believe otherwise. But you've gotta do better than just telling me I'm talking out of my ass.

 

[The Oracle]

I chanllenge anyone to give me an example of a cup winner, other than the Montreal team with Roy, in recent NHL history that hadn't been a bottom dwellers for a number of years before they became contenders. They accumulates high draft picks and kept them as a core group, when they started to mature, then they started to add the missing veteran pieces. This has been the ONLY effective formular to build a true cup contender. It might not always work, especially if you don't draft the right players, but that's been the ONLY effect formular that I've seen in the last 35 years.
.

Detroit Red Wings have been contenders for years and have consistantly done it drafting lower down because of their higher regular seasom finishes.

New Jersey Devils are another prime example although this year isn't looking so good thus far.

Your theory has weight however but only works if your fans are patient and the team drafts well.

 

[The Oracle]

Wilson has more then one computer on the bench and so you don't need scouting report you just need youtube ...

.

Enroth was in his third NHL game so unless there is a lot of footage on him from his Portland Pirates days I doubt there is much of a book on him.

 

[smuddan]

Detroit Red Wings have been contenders for years and have consistantly done it drafting lower down because of their higher regular seasom finishes.

New Jersey Devils are another prime example although this year isn't looking so good thus far.

Your theory has weight however but only works if your fans are patient and the team drafts well.

I don't have all the names in front of me as Im typing on my iPhone outdoor, but I recall that Detroit won withe core group of Yzerman & co who were drafted during years when theywere bottom dweller. Same with Nw Jersy's Brodeau/neidermeyer who were drafted when they were really bad. The Devils were one time called " micky mouse operation" by Gretzky.

Burke has been doing a much better job than all his predecessors as you can see he's trying to accumulate young talents; but if you need an A grade young core to build a true contender, then he's only been able to put together a C grade because of the lack of high draft picks.

As a fan I'd welcome anyone to tell me I'm wrong, but I have seen no reasons to believe that we have hope for a cup contender in the foreseeable future. A playoff team maybe, but only if they can get that legit No.1 centre that the team so desparately needs.

 

[smuddan]

As a fan how can we get a number 1 centre this year ?? The only way your going to get one is if you get a player who is under achieving and has a bad contract and even in that case your not going to get them for free ...

Of-course you or I can't do nothing but jus rant, because we're not paid the big buck of Burke's. It's sure "easy said than done", but if Burke is desparate enough, he may give up anyone except Kessell if Richards is available.

 

[The Oracle]

I don't have all the names in front of me as Im typing on my iPhone outdoor, but I recall that Detroit won withe core group of Yzerman & co who were drafted during years when theywere bottom dweller. Same with Nw Jersy's Brodeau/neidermeyer who were drafted when they were really bad. The Devils were one time called " micky mouse operation" by Gretzky.

Detroit stanley cup winners 96-97

Top 10 scorers;

Shanahan- acquired by trade
Yzerman-1st round selection
Federov- 4th round
Lidstrom-3rd round
Larionov-trade
McCarty-2nd round
Kozov-3rd round
Konstantinov-11th round
Lapointe-1st round
Fetisov- 8th round

Not exactly full of 1st round draft picks but probably some of the shrewdest drafting possible

 

[smuddan]

Detroit stanley cup winners 96-97

Top 10 scorers;

Shanahan- acquired by trade
Yzerman-1st round selection
Federov- 4th round
Lidstrom-3rd round
Larionov-trade
McCarty-2nd round
Kozov-3rd round
Konstantinov-11th round
Lapointe-1st round
Fetisov- 8th round

Not exactly full of 1st round draft picks but probably some of the shrewdest drafting possible

Good work. That does demonstrate the importance of a competent scouting staff. Luck of-course played a part but if you draft high for a few years in a row, you're bound to have better luck picking up gems.

What I'd also like to know is during those years when they were rebuilding, not after they became competitive, how many 1st or 2nd round draft picks had they traded away ? Or how many high-priced free agents did they sign ? Just as the Leafs have done so ?

 

[smuddan]

How many teams have traded away a draft pic that ended up being a top 3 pic ... I count 3 times for the Leafs and counting ...

It never worked, but they did that because "IT'S ALL ABOUT MAKING THE PLAYOFFS".

Another point Oracle made about fans might not be patient with a complete rebuilding job, well let see how many year have we missed the playoffs for both the Raptors and the Leafs under the current ownership ? Have we seen any fan revoke ? Empty seats ? No, we have the most patient fans in the world. All they need is just fire the GM and the coach, hire someone new and we'd ge all excited and think we're going to win the cup soon.

We the fans are stupid, we'd buy anything MLSE sells us. The Leafs had many opportunities to build properly, all they needEd to do was just say : we're rebuilding, and never use the word "tank", because that's such an evil word and politically incorrect. We can suck year after year, that's ok.

 

[gcostanza]

Good work. That does demonstrate the importance of a competent scouting staff. Luck of-course played a part but if you draft high for a few years in a row, you're bound to have better luck picking up gems.

What I'd also like to know is during those years when they were rebuilding, not after they became competitive, how many 1st or 2nd round draft picks had they traded away ? Or how many high-priced free agents did they sign ? Just as the Leafs have done so ?

Every team has good drafts and bad.

Here's a list of Detroit Red Wings picks over the years, some great, some .....not so much !!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Detroit_Red_Wings_draft_picks

 

[pdson2]

OK smartguy, please educate me, convince me that I'm wrong when I say that I believe the No.1 priority of MLSE is "MAKING THE PLAYOFFS" !

I chanllenge anyone to give me an example of a cup winner, other than the Montreal team with Roy, in recent NHL history that hadn't been a bottom dwellers for a number of years before they became contenders. They accumulates high draft picks and kept them as a core group, when they started to mature, then they started to add the missing veteran pieces. This has been the ONLY effective formular to build a true cup contender. It might not always work, especially if you don't draft the right players, but that's been the ONLY effect formular that I've seen in the last 35 years.

If you look back at the recent history since Peddie has been in charge, every GM hired made the same type if moves, i.e. trading away the future for immdiate success and acquiring overpaid/underperformed free agents. From Burke to JFJ to Quinn to Dryden to Smith. None of them came remoty close to follow the proven successful formular. And why ? I'd submit to you that it's because all of them had been told when they were hired, "IT'S ALL ABOUT MAKING THE PLAYOFFS". I'm not saying that MLSE doesn't want to win the cup, they may or may not I don't know, but it certainly is not a high priority as making the playoffs. In the pre cap era they were able to buy into the playoffs, but as resouceful as MLSE is, it's not possible anymore.

If you dig your head out of the sand, you may see the connection as I pointed out above; but if you still disagree, feel free to educate me and tell me why I should believe otherwise. But you've gotta do better than just telling me I'm talking out of my ass.

Go read Shack's post 230 it explains everything, i don't need to repeat it

 

[Rockslinger]

As a fan how can we get a number 1 centre this year ?? The only way your going to get one is if you get a player who is under achieving and has a bad contract and even in that case your not going to get them for free ...

We also need a second line centre as well.

Query: Why didn't they pick Kaberle to shoot in the shootout?

 

[pdson2]

We also need a second line centre as well.

Query: Why didn't they pick Kaberle to shoot in the shootout?

They did, he missed.

 

[Rockslinger]

They did, he missed.

Damn, you mean I missed watching Kaberle miss? Must have been busy posting on TERB.

 

[shack]

"IT'S ALL ABOUT MAKING THE PLAYOFFS". I'm not saying that MLSE doesn't want to win the cup, they may or may not I don't know, but it certainly is not a high priority as making the playoffs.

Please explain to us how, if they spend the same amount of money on the team, they are better off by just making the playoffs than winning the cup.

 

[shack]

Damn, you mean I missed watching Kaberle miss? Must have been busy posting on TERB.

I believe that. 8.73 posts per day.

 

[shack]

If they are worse this year then last will you be angry ?

No. I would be angry if I felt that they failed because management did not really care about winning and were deceiving us. I do not believe that is the case.

If they are worse than last year, which I think is next to impossible, I will be disappointed/disheartened/dismayed,discombobulated, but not angry.

 

[big.guy_13]

I laugh at you all.

 

[smuddan]

Please explain to us how, if they spend the same amount of money on the team, they are better off by just making the playoffs than winning the cup.

I actually agree with you that the further the team goes into the playoffs, the better revenue will be for MLSE; but to build a true cup contender with the proven formula would mean missing the playoffs for at least 2 or 3 years and that would mean hugh loss of playoff revenue.

The best way to maximize coporate value, as Peddie sees it, is to get into the playoff every year and go as far as luck would carry them and they would make boat loads of money.

Would winning it all automatically mean making the most money in the long run ? I don't think Peddie knows for sure. Look at the Jays, winning it all in 92 & 93 but attendance has never been the same since.

Why take a chance and lose all these playoff revenues to let the team bottom out for 2-3 years ?