Theory on Outcall rate increase

[mandrill]

Thank you, your reply is mostly civil lol

I don’t disagree with some of the points you made in response especially with the tiered prices. I think my conclusion here is that you don’t agree with the price increase but don’t necessarily have anything against them with their current prices. If that’s the case then that is a valid argument and if you are representing the majority of guys then they fucked up but if there are a few like you but the rest in my position then overall things are better for the agency. Only time will tell which one was correct.

You attacked another person before me who was saying good things claiming they were getting credit yet people like squeezer who are just trolls positing negative with no experience don’t get attacked. That is why I pointed out the hypocrisy.

If you think I’m a shill well I can’t help you. majority of my experience is with one agency that’s why I post about them and I know people appreciate it , I get almost daily PMs ... I do spend a lot of time here more than I like to admit but again this is my hobby I like talking about it lol. The comment about being a driver actually made me LOL, people that know me know I’m a terrible driver not proud that I have crashed 3 cars (including a self driving one haha ) so I don’t drive , could have picked like photographer or something else would have been better.

I attacked the other guy because I felt his response was over the top. He made it sound like it was a privilege to even be allowed to be a Cupids client. C'mon. You pay the fee, give the info to the booker and are reasonably polite and clean with the lady and you get to book with Cupids, just like any other agency. The hyperbole itself was what made me suspicious.

And the current context is that there are suddenly shoals of lapdogs on Twitter - roamingguy, SimonWinters, clarseypatron, etc. Squeezer commented on them. They seem to have no purpose except to flatter the girls and agencies and shit on other guys. It's downright offensive that an agency owner would trade comments with these accounts and enjoy them insulting regular Cupids clients like myself. It shows a total lack of respect by Cupids for their existing clientele.

So when I see over the top comments on this board, it's pretty easy to get suspicious.

 

[Jasmine Raine]

There is already a whole 3 page thread in the Outcall section about this.

Cupid's raised their rates, big fucking deal.

Don't use them if you don't want to. Why the need to break down a theory in the first place?

Fast food places raise their rates all the time. If I don't want to pay 2.85 for a coffee, I don't.

It is called free market. They can charge what they want and you can agree or move on. So move on.

 

[Ben19]

I attacked the other guy because I felt his response was over the top. He made it sound like it was a privilege to even be allowed to be a Cupids client. C'mon. You pay the fee, give the info to the booker and are reasonably polite and clean with the lady and you get to book with Cupids, just like any other agency. The hyperbole itself was what made me suspicious.

And the current context is that there are suddenly shoals of lapdogs on Twitter - roamingguy, SimonWinters, clarseypatron, etc. Squeezer commented on them. They seem to have no purpose except to flatter the girls and agencies and shit on other guys. It's downright offensive that an agency owner would trade comments with these accounts and enjoy them insulting regular Cupids clients like myself. It shows a total lack of respect by Cupids for their existing clientele.

So when I see over the top comments on this board, it's pretty easy to get suspicious.

I don’t think you specifically in name were attacked on Twitter , if you were I don’t agree with it. I don’t agree with you but I think what you are saying is valid from your perspective. I find it again ironic you are worried about clients being attacked yet actual regular clients like my self are being attacked by people who have admitted they don’t even use the agency in question (ie trolls) and that’s okay ? Put your self in their shoes. On one side you have guys that are your regular clientele (even if you guys don’t believe I am they know I and others who have posted and gotten attacked are ) and on the other you have in the majority guys who admit they don’t use the agency and some as we speak are on other threads making comments like consent is a BS me too thing.

At the end of the day Jessica’s point nails it. Time will decide if the decision they made is correct. As we saw through this exercise trying to debate the prices leads to meaningless discussions. I think it’s a good sign for the agency that majority of the negative comments were from trolls and no one actually was saying anything bad about what matters the most which is the service and the girls. People for some reason were basing their comments on hate towards the owner and not what they are actually paying for. Maybe there is some history with the owner that I’m too young to know about.

Anyways Oagre I know I’m being a bit annoying (doesent help that I have a lot of free time this week) but I’m just trying to present both sides and tried my best to be objective.

 

[squeezer]

I don’t think you specifically in name were attacked on Twitter , if you were I don’t agree with it. I don’t agree with you but I think what you are saying is valid from your perspective. I find it again ironic you are worried about clients being attacked yet actual regular clients like my self are being attacked by people who have admitted they don’t even use the agency in question (ie trolls) and that’s okay ? Put your self in their shoes. On one side you have guys that are your regular clientele (even if you guys don’t believe I am they know I and others who have posted and gotten attacked are ) and on the other you have in the majority guys who admit they don’t use the agency and some as we speak are on other threads making comments like consent is a BS me too thing.

At the end of the day Jessica’s point nails it. Time will decide if the decision they made is correct. As we saw through this exercise trying to debate the prices leads to meaningless discussions. I think it’s a good sign for the agency that majority of the negative comments were from trolls and no one actually was saying anything bad about what matters the most which is the service and the girls. People for some reason were basing their comments on hate towards the owner and not what they are actually paying for. Maybe there is some history with the owner that I’m too young to know about.

Anyways Oagre I know I’m being a bit annoying (doesent help that I have a lot of free time this week) but I’m just trying to present both sides and tried my best to be objective.

First off, you consider me a troll I consider you a Cupid shill lapdog so we have a little common ground on name-calling.

I strictly use agencies but do not use Cupids because of Jillian's attitude toward the clients and even towards the ladies themselves although she hides this very well and promotes being Mother Teresa. Obviously, at $350 an hour, I would stop using her agency if I were using them today but I decided to blacklist Cupids a while ago and again, this is from what I've heard from previous employees and the way she is loosy goosy with client's personal info on Twitter.

Discussing the rates on an Escort Review board is NOT a meaningless discussion but instead is a very pertinent one. It allows clients to know of other choices and avenues to use if they disagree with the price increase which Jillian gleefully waived in the client's faces on Twitter. Imagine McDonald's raising the price of their BigMac and gloating on Twitter about it to its client base. I read a comment to this effect on Twitter by another individual and I thought it was very fitting so I'm stealing it to use here! LOL

 

[Ben19]

First off, you consider me a troll I consider you a Cupid shill lapdog so we have a little common ground on name-calling.

I strictly use agencies but do not use Cupids because of Jillian's attitude toward the clients and even towards the ladies themselves although she hides this very well and promotes being Mother Teresa. Obviously, at $350 an hour, I would stop using her agency if I were using them today but I decided to blacklist Cupids a while ago and again, this is from what I've heard from previous employees and the way she is loosy goosy with client's personal info on Twitter.

Discussing the rates on an Escort Review board is NOT a meaningless discussion but instead is a very pertinent one. It allows clients to know of other choices and avenues to use if they disagree with the price increase which Jillian gleefully waived in the client's faces on Twitter. Imagine McDonald's raising the price of their BigMac and gloating on Twitter about it to its client base. I read a comment to this effect on Twitter by another individual and I thought it was very fitting so I'm stealing it to use here! LOL

It shouldn’t be a meaningless discussion that’s why I engaged in it as a client ie “stakeholder” in this yet the discussion was over run by people who have no experience and knowledge on the situation and don’t even use the service being discussed. You mentioned yourself you used their agency once like 9-11 years ago so how can you contribute to whether their services are good. Well the people that actually use the agency have nothing bad to say about their services. Yet despite not being a user you are obsessed with coming here and commenting on negatives so your either a troll or just a competitor to their service.

I sense your negativity comes from disliking the owner, well A) I don’t know what the basis of that is and B) I don’t get how that is relevant to the service and the girls as she’s not even involved as far as I am aware. I have read your other posts and know that it’s not like you are on a moral high ground to be protesting about not getting great service as you disagree with someone ?

Anyways I think the conclusion after all these discussions is that no one actually has anything bad to say about their girls or the services some people for some reason are obsessed with hating on the owner and some just don’t want to pay the extra 50$ while others like me are okay with it.

I think we all need to move on. At this point this discussion has tuned into name calling and just people on both sides arguing on irrelevants. Don’t get me wrong I am a big part of that problem (couldn’t help it kinda fun arguing with people on something I like and know about). But let’s just agree to disagree

 

[explorerzip]

I believe that people should get paid whatever they can get away with. If that results in less or more clients then it's their business. That's the nature of capitalism and especially in this industry. That being said, I'm not sure what people mean when they say things like "I should be paid what I'm worth / deserve." What exactly does that mean? Many people are not working manufacturing jobs anymore where your compensation is tied to how productive you are. Productivity or performance in the case of escorts is totally subjective and impossible too measure.

The problem with threads like this is they almost never take the escorts or agency perspective into the equation. It is an administrative nightmare to run an agency let alone being indy. Recruiting and scheduling girls, finding and paying for hotels or condos, arranging photo shoots, maintaining web-sites, social media, finding and screening drivers and phone people, etc. All that and you're running a business that has to be super careful to keep peace with the cops.

 

[lomotil]

I believe the increased use of cellphones to order items and services is to blame for the increase in outcalls. There is increasing comfort with Uber Eats, the LCBO can send booze ordered online so it should not be astonishing that the prevalence of Uber Sex to your home should be on the upswing. Agencies who are seeing an increase in outcalls probably have very user friendly to cell phone websites. Now a tech savy guy can pull out his dick and pull out his cell phone in the comfort of his home and with a couple of swipes of the cell phone touch sreen order and have at his door in a short time a hottie who will service and go, leaving no dish to wash after the fuck session.

 

[Hungry101]

.

I sense your negativity comes from disliking the owner, well A) I don’t know what the basis of that is and B) I don’t get how that is relevant to the service and the girls as she’s not even involved as far as I am aware.

Yes, yes you nailed it. It is relevant because she is vindictive and unprofessional and makes things up. How's that Ben?

Anyways I think the conclusion after all these discussions is that no one actually has anything bad to say about their girls or the services some people for some reason are obsessed with hating on the owner and some just don’t want to pay the extra 50$ while others like me are okay with it.

I made my maiden trip to Toronto and I paid the most for the girl from Cupids and she was the least attractive escort I've ever had in Canada and her services were also about the worst I've ever had (I made my first trip to Montreal May 2001). The girl quit 2 months later. I got an apology from Bridgette and then I got attacked by the owner. WTF???? I believe the girls of Cupids are probably very good but I just got a burned out one and consequently, I had a bad experience...I can live with that. But the actions of the owner are mind blowing.

 

[blueray]

There is already a whole 3 page thread in the Outcall section about this.
Cupid's raised their rates, big fucking deal.
Don't use them if you don't want to. Why the need to break down a theory in the first place?

I am not sure why so many people get their boxers/knickers in a knot about rate discussions.
Looks, Service, Price, Looks, Service, Price, Looks, Service, Price...these are the three main things we want to discuss on the board....over and over.

I have found the thread interesting and enlightening, especially ogre's comments on Cupids and American visitors.

 

[mandrill]

I believe that people should get paid whatever they can get away with. If that results in less or more clients then it's their business. That's the nature of capitalism and especially in this industry. That being said, I'm not sure what people mean when they say things like "I should be paid what I'm worth / deserve." What exactly does that mean? Many people are not working manufacturing jobs anymore where your compensation is tied to how productive you are. Productivity or performance in the case of escorts is totally subjective and impossible too measure.

The problem with threads like this is they almost never take the escorts or agency perspective into the equation. It is an administrative nightmare to run an agency let alone being indy. Recruiting and scheduling girls, finding and paying for hotels or condos, arranging photo shoots, maintaining web-sites, social media, finding and screening drivers and phone people, etc. All that and you're running a business that has to be super careful to keep peace with the cops.

Well, fair enough maybe. But none of these girls is charging $5.99 per hour. There has to be some kind of rate structure and some framework and level for prices.

Do the math. Say, Cupids has 15 girls on in a night and they do altogether 50 calls. And say that the agency's cut is $100 per call, that's a gross take-in of $5,000 per evening. Multiply by 360 and that's $1,800,000 per year. And those are conservative figures. And of course, you have to pay drivers and bookers out of that. Plus advertising. And that's your overhead.

You think a business that takes in $2 million a year needs to crank up the rates by another 16% to "stay in business"?

Or because "it's a tough gig"?

 

[Ben19]

Well, fair enough maybe. But none of these girls is charging $5.99 per hour. There has to be some kind of rate structure and some framework and level for prices.

Do the math. Say, Cupids has 15 girls on in a night and they do altogether 50 calls. And say that the agency's cut is $100 per call, that's a gross take-in of $5,000 per evening. Multiply by 360 and that's $1,800,000 per year. And those are conservative figures. And of course, you have to pay drivers and bookers out of that. Plus advertising. And that's your overhead.

You think a business that takes in $2 million a year needs to crank up the rates by another 16% to "stay in business"?

Or because "it's a tough gig"?

I don’t think they are cranking up prices to stay in business or because it was getting tough. If they loose 15% of their clients then they might not make any profit from this move but they would have increased standards so it’s stilll a win. Also keep in mind it’s not loosing clients but bookings. Some of their most popular girls are for the most part always booked. Now if they had a true free market where the highest bidder would see the girl I can guarantee you the prices would be ridiculous. They might loose some clients but they might be replaced with their existing clients making more bookings as times open up. Again that’s just a speculation from my end. You made a good point about Americans and our of towners , keep in mind they are used to paying much more for much less in other places ...

At the end of the day I don’t think as much as we want to you can break prices down precisely to the penny. It’s not like your buying an item like a produce in which prices follow a set structure. Your paying for an experience , it’s subjective. What you think this experience is worth also depends on you and your finances. Ie many don’t think experience of watching a basketball game court side is worth the $$$, yet the tickets are sold out.

 

[explorerzip]

Well, fair enough maybe. But none of these girls is charging $5.99 per hour. There has to be some kind of rate structure and some framework and level for prices.

Do the math. Say, Cupids has 15 girls on in a night and they do altogether 50 calls. And say that the agency's cut is $100 per call, that's a gross take-in of $5,000 per evening. Multiply by 360 and that's $1,800,000 per year. And those are conservative figures. And of course, you have to pay drivers and bookers out of that. Plus advertising. And that's your overhead.

You think a business that takes in $2 million a year needs to crank up the rates by another 16% to "stay in business"?

Or because "it's a tough gig"?

Of course the girls are not charging $5.99 an hour. Not quite sure what your point was.

What exactly do you propose as a so called rate structure / framework for level prices? More importantly, how would you ensure the industry follows it? I'd argue that in some businesses especially with large corporations there is always room to negotiate compensation and some people are able to go outside the standard compensation.

I honestly don't know if a $2 million per year business needs to increase rates by 16% just to stay in business any more than you do. The reason, again, is that we have no idea what is going on behind the scenes or the industry trends over time especially the costs involved. The truth is that we'll never know the true cost of running an agency. Especially since you left out a very important part of the overhead cost: renting hotels rooms / condos and their upkeep.

If it's true that the domestic business is decreasing it would make sense in my eyes to cater to the international or American market where an agency can charge more. It would not make sense to me to keep rates at some arbitrary low to to keep a diminishing local market happy.

 

[mandrill]

Of course the girls are not charging $5.99 an hour. Not quite sure what your point was.

What exactly do you propose as a so called rate structure / framework for level prices? More importantly, how would you ensure the industry follows it? I'd argue that in some businesses especially with large corporations there is always room to negotiate compensation and some people are able to go outside the standard compensation.

I honestly don't know if a $2 million per year business needs to increase rates by 16% just to stay in business any more than you do. The reason, again, is that we have no idea what is going on behind the scenes or the industry trends over time especially the costs involved. The truth is that we'll never know the true cost of running an agency. Especially since you left out a very important part of the overhead cost: renting hotels rooms / condos and their upkeep.

If it's true that the domestic business is decreasing it would make sense in my eyes to cater to the international or American market where an agency can charge more. It would not make sense to me to keep rates at some arbitrary low to to keep a diminishing local market happy.

Why does an outcall agency need to rent hotel rooms and condos? The bookers work from home with cell phones and call forwarding.

What are the "true behind the scenes cost of running an agency"? You pay the bookers. You pay the drivers. You pay for ads. Oh and I left out that you probably pay a bunch in cell phone charges. What else would you pay for?

Not sure if the rest of your post makes any more sense either.

 

[mandrill]

I don’t think they are cranking up prices to stay in business or because it was getting tough. If they loose 15% of their clients then they might not make any profit from this move but they would have increased standards so it’s stilll a win. Also keep in mind it’s not loosing clients but bookings. Some of their most popular girls are for the most part always booked. Now if they had a true free market where the highest bidder would see the girl I can guarantee you the prices would be ridiculous. They might loose some clients but they might be replaced with their existing clients making more bookings as times open up. Again that’s just a speculation from my end. You made a good point about Americans and our of towners , keep in mind they are used to paying much more for much less in other places ...

At the end of the day I don’t think as much as we want to you can break prices down precisely to the penny. It’s not like your buying an item like a produce in which prices follow a set structure. Your paying for an experience , it’s subjective. What you think this experience is worth also depends on you and your finances. Ie many don’t think experience of watching a basketball game court side is worth the $$$, yet the tickets are sold out.

Ben, if I thought cupids would recruit a whole new phalanx of supermodels by cranking prices a little, I would be right there cheering. With sex industry price hikes, the prices go up and the same girls as before go out at higher prices.

So you're suggesting that if Cupids simply auctioned the girls with no set prices, somehow their girls would be getting $1,000's per hour?! Like, how would this work, Ben? Do you mean Cupids is keeping their prices artificially low to make sure the needy customer can get his dick sucked on a regular basis?

And you can't put a price on "experience"?!... Sure you can. The market puts the price. If the cheapest Leafs ticket was 10 grand, no one would go to the arena.

You're just waffling around to try and find something to argue.

 

[Ben19]

Yes, yes you nailed it. It is relevant because she is vindictive and unprofessional and makes things up. How's that Ben?


I made my maiden trip to Toronto and I paid the most for the girl from Cupids and she was the least attractive escort I've ever had in Canada and her services were also about the worst I've ever had (I made my first trip to Montreal May 2001). The girl quit 2 months later. I got an apology from Bridgette and then I got attacked by the owner. WTF???? I believe the girls of Cupids are probably very good but I just got a burned out one and consequently, I had a bad experience...I can live with that. But the actions of the owner are mind blowing.

Interesting that as someone who was seeing SPs charging <300 the Cupid girl you saw was the worst of all time. That’s some bad luck my man. Curious who it was you can PM me if you’d like. It’s interesting you mention the girl is no longer with them, that’s my experience as well anytime I had a bad experience the girls ha e been removed. That’s a good sign to me . I complained once to Bridgitte about one of the new girls and she was Off the roster the same night. Sucks you had bad luck I would stick to more experienced providers.

Differences between my experience and yours is the owner never got involved. I’m not gonna sit here and defend or say stuff about someone I’ve never talked to (just a reply to a tweet) but you gotta keep in mind being an agency owner is not an easy gig and it takes a specific personality to pull it off. Their main job ( I would hope ) is to protect their employees from horny guys (some guys even on this thread with comments like “consent is BS” in their posting history). It’s not just physical harm also black mailing and video taping. All this while operating in a legal grey zone. If she’s coming off as intimidating then good I’m sure the girls want that. It’s funny so much focus on her and I haven’t seen her saying anything
remotely bad yet recently saw an owner of a very popular Incall agency in here literally threatening to have security dangle people off balconies. Another agency owner was even on my PMs accusing me of Shit based on comments from some guys who I am sure are posting in this thread before he realized I actually use their agency as well and tried giving me credit , he didint sound all that friendly. Again I don’t know her , all I know is she’s established a very professional agency that on all accounts is actually doing quite well despite a couple guys on here who barely even used the agency if at all complaining about a price increase.

Again this is getting a bit too much now. You guys go ahead and not just call me a” shill lapdog “ and we can all agree to disagree and move on.

 

[explorerzip]

Why does an outcall agency need to rent hotel rooms and condos? The bookers work from home with cell phones and call forwarding.

What are the "true behind the scenes cost of running an agency"? You pay the bookers. You pay the drivers. You pay for ads. Oh and I left out that you probably pay a bunch in cell phone charges. What else would you pay for?

Not sure if the rest of your post makes any more sense either.

I've obviously been talking about agencies in general outcall and incall. Regardless, you still haven't elaborated on your proposed rate structure / framework for rates and how you propose to get the industry to follow it. It's easy enough to say these things, but what's the plan on getting it implemented? If you want standard rates at all agencies that means having more oversight and control over the industry, which means more government involvement. Now we're going down the path of full legalization of the industry, which is unlikely to happen.

I don't know what else an agency pays for any better than you do especially the actual costs. At the end of the day it's their business to do what they like with to their benefit or detriment. Since you're such an expert on the industry you should become a consultant for agencies.

 

[Ben19]

Ben, if I thought cupids would recruit a whole new phalanx of supermodels by cranking prices a little, I would be right there cheering. With sex industry price hikes, the prices go up and the same girls as before go out at higher prices.

So you're suggesting that if Cupids simply auctioned the girls with no set prices, somehow their girls would be getting $1,000's per hour?! Like, how would this work, Ben? Do you mean Cupids is keeping their prices artificially low to make sure the needy customer can get his dick sucked on a regular basis?

And you can't put a price on "experience"?!... Sure you can. The market puts the price. If the cheapest Leafs ticket was 10 grand, no one would go to the arena.

You're just waffling around to try and find something to argue.

I never said they are keeping it artificially low lol.

With experience I just don’t think you can break down the prices they way you’d like it too. It’s subjective sure there is the booker the cellphone the gas money for the drive but they experience the client gets has a different worth depending on the client ... at the end of the day of the set price is too high you are correct the market will have the final say as I have said time will tell.

 

[explorerzip]

I never said they are keeping it artificially low lol.

With experience I just don’t think you can break down the prices they way you’d like it too. It’s subjective sure there is the booker the cellphone the gas money for the drive but they experience the client gets has a different worth depending on the client ... at the end of the day of the set price is too high you are correct the market will have the final say as I have said time will tell.

Exactly. The experience you have with a girl can vary wildly between guys. A 10 in looks or services to one guy can easily be a 5 to another.

 

[mandrill]

I've obviously been talking about agencies in general outcall and incall. Regardless, you still haven't elaborated on your proposed rate structure / framework for rates and how you propose to get the industry to follow it. It's easy enough to say these things, but what's the plan on getting it implemented? If you want standard rates at all agencies that means having more oversight and control over the industry, which means more government involvement. Now we're going down the path of full legalization of the industry, which is unlikely to happen.

I don't know what else an agency pays for any better than you do especially the actual costs. At the end of the day it's their business to do what they like with to their benefit or detriment. Since you're such an expert on the industry you should become a consultant for agencies.

You misunderstood pretty much everything I wrote and quite honestly, it's tedious to have to explain it to you again.

I didn't say that I wanted to create a set government or industry imposed set of prices.

 

[mandrill]

Exactly. The experience you have with a girl can vary wildly between guys. A 10 in looks or services to one guy can easily be a 5 to another.

So? What does that have to do with pricing?

Guys raved about Daphne in the all time greatest Mirage girl thread. I was so-so on Daphne and only saw her once. Her price was still $300 per hour because of demand, regardless of my individual reaction.