The Gardiner Expressway

[GameBoy27]

Wow! This looks pretty without the ugly crumbling highway. Don't worry "folks", Ford has your back he will build more highways north of the city.

I count 4 lanes heading westbound. Seems like they forgot the bike lanes.

So take one away for the cyclists. Now you'll all of the traffic from the Gardiner and Lakeshore using 3 lanes. Don't forget to include all the traffic that travels from the beaches area who want to get on the Gardiner. Or will they put the bike lanes on the shoulder sidewalk area like they did on Queens Quay? That's a nightmare to cycle along. I almost hit 5 or 6 pedestrians every time I cycle on that path, which is just about every weekend.

Oh yes, and the railway tracks. Is Chow going to tear those up too? She's such a visionary.

 

[GameBoy27]

By bazillion lights you mean like 3 between the start of the Gardiner and the Jarvis on ramp. Whoop de do. I take the train past that area during rush hour both times in a day. The Gardiner is already jammed from the DVP then. It's not moving now. Throwing in 3 lights won't materially change things since you're already stop and go as if there were lights.

Not true. The elevated potion from the DVP to Jarvis moves very well. Why, because there's another roadway underneath and there's no traffic lights. Putting all that traffic onto one roadway and adding traffic lights can only make things much worse. Block just one lane on the DVP at York Mills and in no time it's backed up to the Gardiner.

Do I need to remind everyone that council just voted 15 to 10 to not change the current plans? And why did they vote not to change it? Because it's a bad idea. And they're right.

 

[james t kirk]

Link:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

A little reality.

Using google, I situated myself right under the Gardiner Expressway on Yonge Street looking north at the railway embankment. It measures 55 metres from the north fascia of the Gardiner Expressway superstructure to the railway subway (bridge). The subway (bridge) carrying the tracks then measures 88 metres wide.

That railway embankment ain't going anywhere and it's made of dirt, so it's solid from the east abutment on Yonge all the way to Jarvis, then solid to Sherborne, then to Parliament, then to Cherry.

So yeah, where's that railway emankment in that "artiste's" rendering?? Oh wait, that would ruin the fictional narrative??

 

[GameBoy27]

View attachment 242920

Link:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

A little reality.

Using google, I situated myself right under the Gardiner Expressway on Yonge Street looking north at the railway embankment. It measures 55 metres. The railway subway (bridge) measures 88 metres wide.

That railway embankment ain't going anywhere and it's made of dirt, so it's solid from the east abutment on Yonge all the way to Jarvice, then solid to Shourborne, then to Parliament, then to Cherry.

Don't worry, Chow will have a plan for that too. She's a genius.

Maybe she'll put them under ground. Just raise property tax 200% to 300% to cover the costs. No problem.

 

[Anbarandy]

Buddy, I've forgotten more about transportation infrastructure engineering and design than you'll ever know and with that comes the reality of political empire building and any number of reports prepared by MBAs who know shit when it comes to tar.

If you think I will believe any report commissioned by Waterfront Toronto or any other such idiotic organisation, you haven't been paying attention. It's all poltically driven.

What in the Sam Hill are you going on about?

You've forgotten not just a little bit, but it appears, all of it.

 

[Frankfooter]

Not true. The elevated potion from the DVP to Jarvis moves very well. Why, because there's another roadway underneath and there's no traffic lights. Putting all that traffic onto one roadway and adding traffic lights can only make things much worse. Block just one lane on the DVP at York Mills and in no time it's backed up to the Gardiner.

Do I need to remind everyone that council just voted 15 to 10 to not change the current plans? And why did they vote not to change it? Because it's a bad idea. And they're right.

It will use up 10% of the city's infrastructure budget for a route that supports 1% of commuters.
Not to mention how many years do you think it will take the city to rebuild an elevated highway vs ground?

 

[GameBoy27]

It will use up 10% of the city's infrastructure budget for a route that supports 1% of commuters.
Not to mention how many years do you think it will take the city to rebuild an elevated highway vs ground?

So why did council vote 15-10 to stick to the original plan? Because it makes the most sense.

All you would have to do is put a traffic light at the bottom of the DVP and you would quickly see it back up to Eglinton on a regular basis.

 

[mandrill]

^^^^^^

Let's stop the bullshit.

Unfounded, uninformed myth, fear and loathing versus facts:

Myth: Removing the Gardiner East will result in traffic chaos and gridlock. | Waterfront Toronto (waterfrontoronto.ca)

Waterfront Toronto (incorporated as the Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corporation) is an organization that oversees revitalization projects along the Toronto waterfront. Established in 2001 as a public–public partnership between the City of Toronto, Province of Ontario and Government of Canada.

No wonder Toronto has gone to the dogs over the last 13 years when myth trumped facts.

I would love to see how they reach those conclusions.

 

[mandrill]

No, no, no .... look how unhappy the pedestrians are when access to the lake is pretty well free of the Great Wall of the Gardiner.

It's a hellscape.

Except it's not a "great wall". It's about 50 yards of overhead structure.

Those same pedestrians would have crossed a far larger stretch of east-west rail corridor - because that fucker's HUGE! And under Chow's plan, they would have to cross a very wide ground level road.

It's a great rant - "Clear the great wall to make the little children free and happy!".... But in fact, it's just a road.

 

[mandrill]

Buddy, I've forgotten more about transportation infrastructure engineering and design than you'll ever know and with that comes the reality of political empire building and any number of reports prepared by MBAs who know shit when it comes to tar.

If you think I will believe any report commissioned by Waterfront Toronto or any other such idiotic organisation, you haven't been paying attention. It's all poltically driven.

And probably developer funded - with the appropriate pay offs to Chows and others.

 

[glamphotographer]

I count 4 lanes heading westbound. Seems like they forgot the bike lanes.

So take one away for the cyclists. Now you'll all of the traffic from the Gardiner and Lakeshore using 3 lanes. Don't forget to include all the traffic that travels from the beaches area who want to get on the Gardiner. Or will they put the bike lanes on the shoulder sidewalk area like they did on Queens Quay? That's a nightmare to cycle along. I almost hit 5 or 6 pedestrians every time I cycle on that path, which is just about every weekend.

Oh yes, and the railway tracks. Is Chow going to tear those up too? She's such a visionary.

Don't you love it when Ford gave cities mayoral powers, now Chow has the power to tear down the Gardiner. Either way city council will vote in favor to tear down the Gardiner. I love it when Ford nation starts whining. HAHAHA!

 

[mandrill]

^^^^^^

Let's stop the bullshit.

Unfounded, uninformed myth, fear and loathing versus facts:

Myth: Removing the Gardiner East will result in traffic chaos and gridlock. | Waterfront Toronto (waterfrontoronto.ca)

Waterfront Toronto (incorporated as the Toronto Waterfront Revitalization Corporation) is an organization that oversees revitalization projects along the Toronto waterfront. Established in 2001 as a public–public partnership between the City of Toronto, Province of Ontario and Government of Canada.

No wonder Toronto has gone to the dogs over the last 13 years when myth trumped facts.

All you have to do is convince me that 3 lanes either way road with traffic lights will somehow be almost as fast as 3 lanes with way with no traffic lights backed up by another 3 lanes either way road right underneath.

It can't work.

Have you ever fucking driven either Lakeshore or the Gardiner after 3:00 PM. Lakeshore is FUCKED. Two-thirds of being fucked is cars backed trying to on ramp up to the DVP. And the Gardiner is anything from semi fucked to totally fucked depending on the day. Are you going to tell me that half the traffic carrying capacity isn't going to be totally fucked beyond all comprehension all the fucking time?!?!

Get reasonable! I drive that fucking road every fucking day and it's the curse of my fucking life. Take out half the vehicle carrying surface and it will be fucking hell on fucking earth!

 

[glamphotographer]

If the city decided to keep the crumbling Gardiner it will cost a lot of $$$$$ to maintain it, how many drivers will pay a toll each time to use it?

 

[SchlongConery]

All you have to do is convince me that 3 lanes either way road with traffic lights will somehow be almost as fast as 3 lanes with way with no traffic lights backed up by another 3 lanes either way road right underneath.

It can't work.

Have you ever fucking driven either Lakeshore or the Gardiner after 3:00 PM. Lakeshore is FUCKED. Two-thirds of being fucked is cars backed trying to on ramp up to the DVP. And the Gardiner is anything from semi fucked to totally fucked depending on the day. Are you going to tell me that half the traffic carrying capacity isn't going to be totally fucked beyond all comprehension all the fucking time?!?!

Get reasonable! I drive that fucking road every fucking day and it's the curse of my fucking life. Take out half the vehicle carrying surface and it will be fucking hell on fucking earth!

Fuck you say?

 

[GameBoy27]

The idea is to get people not to depend on their cars. Ford had his way with Toronto for so long, now it's time for Ford to be challenged.

Of course, in a perfect world, everyone would take transit. Unfortunately that's impossible and highly impractical for a vast majority of the population. I wish my life was so simple that I could take public transit, but that's simply not the case. The same goes for many of the people you see driving every day. The people for which walking, cycling, transit makes sense, use those alternatives. For the rest, driving is faster and more convenient. Not to mention we need roads for emergency services, deliveries, taxis, busses, streetcars etc. If you already own a car, the extra amount you pay for gas per trip, is a small price for the time it can save you. Many are in the same boat.

There's also a lot of people who have mobility problems or simply don't like riding the TTC. If you look at the statistics, there's a lot of random violent attacks on the TTC. The chance of that happening in your car are next to nil. It seems every time I go to take it lately, there's always closures, reroutes, short turns etc. It's not reliable at the best of times. Last time my wife went to visit a friend in the east end, the streetcar made a detour and dropped her off at Dundas and Parliament at 9:30 PM. She had to wait on the corner for 20 minutes until the next one arrived. Toss in inclement weather or winter and it becomes even less appealing. It's not the better way.

 

[glamphotographer]

Ok, digress, the GEW (Gardiner Escort Way) is needed for this hobby, how are the fine escorts in the GTA going to get DT? There is a lack of Escorts in the DT area. I hear a lot of Escort hate driving into DT unless they live in the DT core.

 

[Frankfooter]

All you have to do is convince me that 3 lanes either way road with traffic lights will somehow be almost as fast as 3 lanes with way with no traffic lights backed up by another 3 lanes either way road right underneath.

It can't work.

Have you ever fucking driven either Lakeshore or the Gardiner after 3:00 PM. Lakeshore is FUCKED. Two-thirds of being fucked is cars backed trying to on ramp up to the DVP. And the Gardiner is anything from semi fucked to totally fucked depending on the day. Are you going to tell me that half the traffic carrying capacity isn't going to be totally fucked beyond all comprehension all the fucking time?!?!

Get reasonable! I drive that fucking road every fucking day and it's the curse of my fucking life. Take out half the vehicle carrying surface and it will be fucking hell on fucking earth!

Part of that is likely because Lakeshore has been f'd up for so long with endless construction. Coming from the east end is a disaster now.
If you gain back an exit onto lakeshore that gives more flow.
Right now it only works if you're trying to bypass the downtown altogether, where if you can get on the DVP through lakeshore again that works better than being stuck from Jarvis to Bloor with no exit/entrance.

 

[Anbarandy]

And probably developer funded - with the appropriate pay offs to Chows and others.

Nonsense and you should know better.

 

[Anbarandy]

All you have to do is convince me that 3 lanes either way road with traffic lights will somehow be almost as fast as 3 lanes with way with no traffic lights backed up by another 3 lanes either way road right underneath.

It can't work.

Have you ever fucking driven either Lakeshore or the Gardiner after 3:00 PM. Lakeshore is FUCKED. Two-thirds of being fucked is cars backed trying to on ramp up to the DVP. And the Gardiner is anything from semi fucked to totally fucked depending on the day. Are you going to tell me that half the traffic carrying capacity isn't going to be totally fucked beyond all comprehension all the fucking time?!?!

Get reasonable! I drive that fucking road every fucking day and it's the curse of my fucking life. Take out half the vehicle carrying surface and it will be fucking hell on fucking earth!

It's all in detailed in the Waterfront Toronto Environmental Assessment of which I provided 2 links to in and in two separate posts. Read it, what have you got to lose except your extreme subjectivity on this issue.

Myth: Removing the Gardiner East will result in traffic chaos and gridlock. | Waterfront Toronto (waterfrontoronto.ca) Gardiner East Environmental Assessment | Waterfront Toronto (waterfrontoronto.ca)

Have you ever gotten out of your vehicle and explored as to the reasons why Lakeshore Blvd East and the Gardiner is fucked up now?

I'll give you a hint.

It's because of the ongoing construction mess and lane closures going on underneath the Gardiner in the futile and wasteful attempt to rehabilitate the Gardiner East. .

I'm out of car down there riding my bike and that is all I see. I F*cken cursed mess of construction, lane closures and a parking lot of vehicle drivers fuming and railing as a whiz by them on my bike.

Read the reports as it will both occupy your time while sitting in your car with all that construction and car caused congestion and better inform yourself on the facts available in the Waterfront Toronto E.A.

Captain Kirk won't read it, even though he claims he is some sort of transportation infrastructure construction engineering genius.

 

[basketcase]

The only possible solution would be an underground expressway through the core but that would mean tax money which people hate, even when it directly benefits them. Okay, the other would be a massive investment in public transit and tolls for out-of-towners using DVP/Gardiner.

Maybe 20 years before parts of it become critically unsafe; tearing it down is the least expensive option even though it is the worst.