The Gardiner Expressway

[GameBoy27]

During rush hour it barely moves. I see it from the GO train all the time. It's a great idea if it saves a bankrupt city half a billion dollars which can be spent better elsewhere. There's no room for more roads anywhere. People are going to have to start adjusting to other options, as they do in other major cities around the world. Most peopke in Manhattan don't drive around to things. That's our future

Specifically talking about the Gardiner from Jarvis to the DVP. That section moves very well. They're not talking about adding "more roads" just rebuilding an existing one. Please don't compare Manhattan to Toronto. I've been to both, they're not the same.

 

[GameBoy27]

So now you're comparing confronting drug addicts and homeless people on transit to driving. Ok, on top of the far greater chance of dying in cars let's add in non fatal injuries as well as regular road rage incidents and traffic accidents that don't kill or injure, plus all the homeless/ drug addicts coming up to your car looking for money . What do you think is the safer way considering all that? I'll stick with the TTC thanks. More people to back me up than being alone in my car

OMG... How many times do I have to tell you, the homeless, drug addicts and the ones with mental issues is one of the reasons people don't feel safe on the TTC. I'm not taking about how you feel on the TTC.

Maybe you should read this. It explains some of the issues riders have to deal with on a daily basis. These are the exact same things many people I know have experienced, myself included.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-transit-riders-safety-1.6739872

 

[Butler1000]

So now you're comparing confronting drug addicts and homeless people on transit to driving. Ok, on top of the far greater chance of dying in cars let's add in non fatal injuries as well as regular road rage incidents and traffic accidents that don't kill or injure, plus all the homeless/ drug addicts coming up to your car looking for money . What do you think is the safer way considering all that? I'll stick with the TTC thanks. More people to back me up than being alone in my car

Taking the TTC everyday. I honestly see what can be considered a violent or disturbing episode at least once every 20 rides. That covers homeless and mentally ill, drunks, passengers losing it on staff, confrontation between passengers, and more.

I personally have had to deal with at least 3 episodes where violence was a hair trigger away. One involving mentally ill, one teens, and one an obvious ex-con with anger issues. I'm big enough and calm enough to settle things down.

It is getting worse. Toronto streets and TTC, while not at USA levels are as bad as I have ever seen them. My friends tell me the subway is even worse. Im usually on Streetcars.

My friends who drive in do not have the same issues. Not even close.

 

[Anbarandy]

Taking the TTC everyday. I honestly see what can be considered a violent or disturbing episode at least once every 20 rides. That covers homeless and mentally ill, drunks, passengers losing it on staff, confrontation between passengers, and more.

I personally have had to deal with at least 3 episodes where violence was a hair trigger away. One involving mentally ill, one teens, and one an obvious ex-con with anger issues. I'm big enough and calm enough to settle things down.

It is getting worse. Toronto streets and TTC, while not at USA levels are as bad as I have ever seen them. My friends tell me the subway is even worse. Im usually on Streetcars.

My friends who drive in do not have the same issues. Not even close.

That's it!

Case closed!

The big enough and calm enough voice of reason and sanity has spoken!

 

[GameBoy27]

That's it!

Case closed!

The big enough and calm enough voice of reason and sanity has spoken!

Typical response!

 

[Butler1000]

Typical response!

Let him rant here, otherwise he would be one of them mentally ill fellas you see on the TTC......

 

[explorerzip]

For God's sake, I'm not doubting the statistics. Statistically speaking, yes it's safe. All I'm saying is many don't feel safe because of past experiences on the TTC. So they would rather drive. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Why so irritated? You brought up statistics so I looked at them and came to my own conclusion. I also tried to integratied yours. Perhaps you were annoyed that I delved into the numbers deeper, but it really doesn't matter.

I think we both recognize the many problems with the TTC, but see them from different lenses.

 

[explorerzip]

Taking the TTC everyday. I honestly see what can be considered a violent or disturbing episode at least once every 20 rides. That covers homeless and mentally ill, drunks, passengers losing it on staff, confrontation between passengers, and more.

I personally have had to deal with at least 3 episodes where violence was a hair trigger away. One involving mentally ill, one teens, and one an obvious ex-con with anger issues. I'm big enough and calm enough to settle things down.

It is getting worse. Toronto streets and TTC, while not at USA levels are as bad as I have ever seen them. My friends tell me the subway is even worse. Im usually on Streetcars.

My friends who drive in do not have the same issues. Not even close.

I'm not telling you what to do, but try to keep track of the incidents for a whole year and get back to us. There seems to be lots doubt on the offical numbers so let's put them to the test. A few people talked about the lack of logical decision making at city hall, so let's do it here and teach them how to do it. Who knows, maybe we will actually "learn" something vs the usual pissing contests?

Got to use those brain cells gents or else we're going to lose them.

 

[Butler1000]

I'm not telling you what to do, but try to keep track of the incidents for a whole year and get back to us. There seems to be lots doubt on the offical numbers so let's put them to the test. A few people talked about the lack of logical decision making at city hall, so let's do it here and teach them how to do it. Who knows, maybe we will actually "learn" something vs the usual pissing contests?

Got to use those brain cells gents or else we're going to lose them.

I'm using my memory now. On Monday a man lost his shit screaming and threatening the driver because he missed a stop. Kicking the door.

Two weeks ago a lady had her needle out prepping it.

 

[explorerzip]

I'm using my memory now. On Monday a man lost his shit screaming and threatening the driver because he missed a stop. Kicking the door.

Two weeks ago a lady had her needle out prepping it.

I don't ride anywhere as frequently as you, but seen my share of upsetting and disgusting stuff.

That's why getting numbers from a whole year is important for informed and logical decision making.

 

[Butler1000]

I don't ride anywhere as frequently as you, but seen my share of upsetting and disgusting stuff.

That's why getting numbers from a whole year is important for informed and logical decision making.

Part of the problem is concentration. Most of it happens on the subway platforms and on streetcars. The feeder routes on the suburbs are a lot calmer. So while it seems to be a tiny amount, its noticable.

I have no idea if Monday was included. The driver just yelled back and opened the door. I think unless the security or cops are involved probably not.

And remember 1 incident but 100+ see it and are affected by it.

 

[Anbarandy]

During rush hour it barely moves. I see it from the GO train all the time. It's a great idea if it saves a bankrupt city half a billion dollars which can be spent better elsewhere. There's no room for more roads anywhere. People are going to have to start adjusting to other options, as they do in other major cities around the world. Most peopke in Manhattan don't drive around to things. That's our future

When elevated roadways have come down by accident or design, 20 - 30% of the cars that used those roadways just disappeared.

That disappearing car cohort didn't find alternate roads, they just ceased to exist.

 

[explorerzip]

Part of the problem is concentration. Most of it happens on the subway platforms and on streetcars. The feeder routes on the suburbs are a lot calmer. So while it seems to be a tiny amount, its noticable.

I have no idea if Monday was included. The driver just yelled back and opened the door. I think unless the security or cops are involved probably not.

And remember 1 incident but 100+ see it and are affected by it.

I agree that many of the problems happen on the subway platforms or streetcars. The question then is where are these incidents most likely to happen so we can improve safety. The obvious answer is at transfer stations like: Yonge / Bloor, Yonge / Sheppard, St George, Dundas West, Union, Kennedy and the end points: Kipling, Kennedy, Don Mills, Finch and Vaughan Centre.

What do you suppose we do to increase safety at those stations, streetcars, buses or trains? We can increase foot patrols drastically, or take bigger measures like platform doors at the busy subway stations. Perhaps in 200 years we can upgrade the whole system while the rest of the world moves on! Walk past the UP Express stations at Union or the airport and you'll see them in action. Platform doors prevent people and debris from getting pushed onto the tracks, which increase safety and reliability. That's what so many riders and drivers are complaining about. Apparently, all the stations on the Ontario Line and Bloor Yonge will eventually get them.

The big kicker is that safety measures cost money. Who knew?

How does all this relate to the Gardiner? Multiple people said that transit needs to be improved first before fucking around with the roads. Ok, I give the drivers 1M points for their wisdom on that topic.

Then let's spend the multiple billions to improve transit FIRST and the Gardiner can wait! Once we tackle the decades long backlog and get enough people on transit, the drivers can have their Gardiner and roads back.