The complexities of Sudan
- Thread starter basketcase
- Start date
Their intent was to attack the state of Israel, by attacking the army, not the civilians. Attacks on civilians were a spur of the moment thing. And the civilians are multicultural, multiracial, multi-religious and multi-ethnic. So neither was the attack intended against civilians, nor was it against a specific group of people. OTOH Israel's actions are deliberately directed towards a specific group of people and hence genocide.
Intent to cause death of a specific group of people, with the intent to destroy said group in whole or in part is genocide. Retaliatory attacks against a state are not. October 7 was a retaliatory attack against the state of Israel.
Please show us the source where that is an accepted definition.
You just made that up. You have nothing to use as a citation.
And if you want to use that, it means that Israel is totally justified to their response because every single person agrees that the invasion of Gaza is nothing more than retaliation for Oct.7, but not genocide.
It sounds like you're ready to put those pretzels in the oven.
No I didn't. It is the official definition of genocide that I have posted here several times. And what Israel is doing is not retaliation, because of their stated intent to commit genocide. Let me refresh your memory with a little Yaov Gallant.
Pretzel master is you. I'll wait, it may take a couple of posts but you'll get there. I like how you pre-emptively threw the pretzel accusation on me.
Whose official definition? You don't have one.
United Nations Office on Genocide Prevention and the Responsibility to Protect
Definition
Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide
Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
- Killing members of the group;
- Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
- Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
- Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
- Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Right, that is the official definition of genocide. And note, the intent of the official definition of genocide, is to define genocide. Not to rule on whether or not retaliation is appropriate. So while showing whether or not actions amount to genocide is important, discussing whether retaliation is permissible is irrelevant and tangential.
So let us review, shall we?
Hamas:
Did Hamas....
- Killing members of the group - No. They killed a multi-national, multi-religious, multi-ethnic group of people. No one specific. Infact they explicitly DID NOT intend to target civilians and have admitted that there were some faults that occurred on October 7. Many Israeli survivors also said the same thing, where the Hamas guys let the women and children go.
- Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group. - No. They harmed a multi-national, multi-religious, multi-ethnic group of people. No one specific.
- Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part. - No.
- Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group. - No
- Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. - No. Kidnapping does not count as forcible transfer as they did not steal kids to convert them into Palestinians.
Here is the a document they published, after October 7. I will summarize their reasons below. But it proves, that it is not genocide.
Our Narrative
- After 75 years of relentless occupation and suffering, and after failing all initiatives for liberation and return to our people, and also after the disastrous results of the so-called peace process, what did the world expect from the Palestinian people to do in response to the following: The Israeli Judaization plans to the blessed Al-Aqsa Mosque, its temporal and spatial division attempts, as well as the intensification of the Israeli settlers’ incursions into the holy mosque.
- The practices of the extremist and right-wing Israeli government which is practically taking steps towards annexing the entire West Bank and Jerusalem into the so-called “Israel’s sovereignty” amid plans on the Israeli official table to expel Palestinians from their homes and areas.
- The thousands of Palestinian detainees in Israeli jails who are experiencing deprivation of their basic rights as well as assaults and humiliations under direct supervision of the Israeli fascist minister Itamar Ben-Gvir.
- The unjust air, sea, and land blockade imposed on the Gaza Strip over 17 years.
- The expansion of the Israeli settlements across the West Bank in an unprecedented level, as well as the daily violence perpetrated by settlers against Palestinians and their properties.
- The seven million Palestinians living in extreme conditions in refugee camps and other areas who wish to return to their lands, and who were expelled 75 years ago.
- The failure of the international community and the complicit of superpowers to prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Did Israel....
- Killing members of the group - Yes. 35,000 Palestinians are dead.
- Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group. - Yes. 76,000 Palestinians are injured.
- Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part. - Yes. Cutting of food, water, electricity, destroying places of refuge, attacking refugee camps etc.,
- Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group. - No
- Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. - No. Unlawful detentions of children do not count as forcible transfer as they did not steal kids to convert them into Israelis.
Proof: (one among many):
PS: The pretzel title is reserved for you and trademarked by me. Stealing it to pre-emptively and nervously throw it back at me, amounts to lame intellectual property theft when you dont have an argument with any legs to stand on.
Show me a single place that their 2017 document says they will accept peace with Israel? They don't.
Their statement is the exact same as they've said repeatedly. If Israel accepts all Palestinian demands in a Two State peace, they would accept a Hudna, not a permanent peace.
Back to you spamming us with death porn while refusing to consider Arabs worth criticizing for their actions?
Hamas is a terrorist entity who promote a theocratic rule and strict adherence to religion, subjugation of women, rejection of human rights, and their wasting their corrupt billions on pointless violence instead of helping the people of Gaza, striking Israel then using their own people as human shields simply to get media attention.
Hamas has once again rejected a mediated ceasefire deal, violating the UNSC on that and their refusal to "immediately and unconditionally" releasing their hostages.
That's why they raped teenaged girls and killed children and the aged. It was a "retaliatory attach against a state" - particularly killing the children.
Again, they recorded videos of their prep for the attack, having built an Israeli town and practicing going door to door killing.
Hamas ended exercise in mock Israeli town: ‘We have killed everyone on the kibbutz’
Leaked emails show veteran intel soldier warned that terror groups were training for major assault to 'start a war,' but her cautions were dismissed by senior officers as 'fantasy'
www.timesofisrael.com
Hamas practiced in plain sight, posting video of mock attack weeks before border breach
Less than a month before Hamas fighters blew through Israel’s “Iron Wall” and launched an attack, they practiced in a very public dress rehearsal.
apnews.com
But you're so messed up that you still want to pretend that Hamas are the good guys.
I guess killing those kids is just fine then. "Just a spur of the moment thing". Your problem is that there's video of them raping those women and killing those kids and they were really enjoying what they were doing.
Well it actually WAS intended to be against civilians because they headed straight to the music festival. And if they didn't intend to kill civilians, why didn't they drive past and attack IDF positions.
Israel's actions seem to be pretty much directed to killing Hamas. If their intention was to kill Palestinians generally, there'd be a lot more photo evidence of mass civilian deaths. Speaking of which....
When is that mass famine going to happen?????..... It was supposed to happen in February, then March, now it's supposed to be May or June. Can we get clarity on this?
There is no video of Hamas raping anyone. The UN team specifically said there was no forensic evidence or survivor testimonies because they refused to come forward, despite being repeatedly urged to come forward.
The spur of the moment killings are even acknowledged as wrong by Hamas in their own statements, they published in the link I posted above.
Yup, 35000 dead Palestinians, 70% of them women and children, and only in your bizarro, world where racists rule, does that count as "Hamas". And photo evidence? Just do a casual google search and before you do that, make sure to set up an appointment with your optometrist.
It is already happening as we speak.
Yes, Israel is made up of cities and towns guarded by troops.Again, they recorded videos of their prep for the attack, having built an Israeli town and practicing going door to door killing.
Hamas ended exercise in mock Israeli town: ‘We have killed everyone on the kibbutz’
Leaked emails show veteran intel soldier warned that terror groups were training for major assault to 'start a war,' but her cautions were dismissed by senior officers as 'fantasy'
Hamas practiced in plain sight, posting video of mock attack weeks before border breach
Less than a month before Hamas fighters blew through Israel’s “Iron Wall” and launched an attack, they practiced in a very public dress rehearsal.
But you're so messed up that you still want to pretend that Hamas are the good guys.
There was no rape. Repeating BS over and over again, makes you look silly. It however, does not make it the truth.
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Though Israel's fringe right may think that, your claims are bullshit.
I know you like to pretend Hamas are good people, they have repeatedly stated that by Zionist, they mean jews.
Amazing that you ignore the UN report but are happy to selectively swallow whatever load Hamas spews on you.
Hamas has been clear what they want. Even you making this excuse is disgusting. You might think it okay to slaughter 1200 civilians and kidnap hundreds of others including old ladies and infants because some Jews peacefully walked around a holy site, approved by Jordan but all you do is show you are either a outright racist or clueless.
As I said, statements and interviews with Hamas leadership have made clear their goals.
Yaov Gallant isn't the fringe right. So try again.
I did not say Hamas were good people. But Hamas has objectively said certain things, and have not said certain things. I am keeping you honest that they have explicitly said that they are not in a fight with Judaism or Jews. They are fighting the Zionist entity.
1. It IS the UN report that I am quoting. You have not read the report, so you spout BS about things you know nothing about.
2. Hamas has been clear that they are in a fight with the Zionist entity and not with Jews.
3. Off the 1200 people that died on October 7, almost half them were killed by ISREAL, via employ of the Hannibal Directive.
4. Peaceful walks are not accompanied by IDF with guns and also by preventing Palestinians from entering said Temple. That by its very nature is not peaceful.
Islamaphobic hate speech.
There is no evidence to back up your claim you knew what they were thinking.
You just admitted there is no justification for the Israeli genocide of Palestinians as presented to the ICJ.
Nothing Hamas has ever done is anywhere near as evil as the shit Israel is doing right now.
Starving 1 million children to near death.
Killing 13,000 children.
Destroying the Gaza health care system and infrastructure.
Using 2000 lb bombs on civlians.
Using AI to target all males of age.
Using drones to kill children.
Israel is by far more evil.
As are all those who defend their actions.
