Garden of Eden Escorts

teachers strike?

Rockslinger

Banned
Apr 24, 2005
32,776
0
0
So what's the point of promising pensions and benefits that don't kick in till long after the contract has expired?
If these are contractual obligations then they should be honoured as long as the province considers them economically viable. Otherwise, they should be subject to adjustments like the Nortel and GM pensions.
 

frankcastle

Well-known member
Feb 4, 2003
17,887
243
63
If these are contractual obligations then they should be honoured as long as the province considers them economically viable. Otherwise, they should be subject to adjustments like the Nortel and GM pensions.
I see your point..... I'm just saying that it should be economically viable because they should have been BUDGETTING for it. The education budget didn't cause the deficit.

If there was a massive influx of teachers or unexptected retirements then I get it. All this stuff is showing is that the goverment has not been planning for the future.
 

Rockslinger

Banned
Apr 24, 2005
32,776
0
0
All this stuff is showing is that the goverment has not been planning for the future.
The government in good faith did try. That is why we have Teachers Pension Plan but the plan is underwater because pension contributions by teachers were too low, market returns on investments are below expectation and nobody expected retired teachers to live a further 600 years and draw pensions for longer than they were in active service. Back to economic reality. BTW: Teachers had a chance to buy Bell for $42.75 a share in 2009 but chose to walk away. Maybe they should get new investment managers?
 

frankcastle

Well-known member
Feb 4, 2003
17,887
243
63
The government in good faith did try. That is why we have Teachers Pension Plan but the plan is underwater because pension contributions by teachers were too low, market returns on investments are below expectation and nobody expected retired teachers to live a further 600 years and draw pensions for longer than they were in active service. Back to economic reality. BTW: Teachers had a chance to buy Bell for $42.75 a share in 2009 but chose to walk away. Maybe they should get new investment managers?
Well if that's the issue then get teachers to kick in more money and delay the year that they can retire. IF they want it so bad let them do that instead of take away benefits.
 

Possum Trot

New member
Dec 7, 2009
1,093
1
0
Given that the majority of people believe teachers are already generously compensated, the teachers unions are not gaining anything by these job actions.
 

scouser1

Well-known member
Dec 7, 2001
5,663
94
48
Pickering
The research shows that the only people who are LESS qualified than STUDENTS to evaluate quality teachers are PARENTS. Principals simply have to do their job. Kids and parents should not evaluate teaching...very simply, they are not trained and would have absolutely no idea about how to evaluate the complex nature of teaching
oh you so wrong parents and kids are totally qualified to evaluate teachers, the evaluation would go something like this:
Parent: "ohh he is a bad teacher, he picks on my little Johnny all the time, even though he is a perfect angel, fire him!!!!"
student: "yo dude that teacher totally hates me, he always gets cheesed when I show up only 25 minutes late to class without even bringing a pencil or piece of paper, yeah man that mofo should be fired"
 

red

you must be fk'n kid'g me
Nov 13, 2001
17,572
8
38
The research shows that the only people who are LESS qualified than STUDENTS to evaluate quality teachers are PARENTS. Principals simply have to do their job. Kids and parents should not evaluate teaching...very simply, they are not trained and would have absolutely no idea about how to evaluate the complex nature of teaching
LOL. who did that research? teachers?
 

Keebler Elf

The Original Elf
Aug 31, 2001
14,621
240
63
The Keebler Factory
Oh today's student is good with technology, their iPhones, iPads, computer games, etc but ask any student today to tell you where in a the world countries are located, such as Iraq or Chad, and I bet you the vast majority would not be able to tell you.
See, this is the generational divide. That kid will tell you he can look that up in 3 seconds so why bother filling his mind with that when he can instead fill it with 100 different ways to use modern technology. And you know what? A lot of the time they're RIGHT!
 

Curious36

Member
Nov 11, 2007
500
11
18
Well if that's the issue then get teachers to kick in more money and delay the year that they can retire. IF they want it so bad let them do that instead of take away benefits.
A simple solution to unfunded pension liabilities, which the taxpayer will have to pay, is to introduce define contribution pension plans. Currently they have defined benefit, meaning they can bank on an exact pension amount upon retirement which is indexed with inflation. i.e. they get a pension raise to match inflation levels. This is NOT real world economic prudence. Have them contribute a certain amount and fund managers do what they are paid to do. What-ever is in the pot on their contributions afterwards is what they get in terms of a life annuity. Defined contribution plans ARE economically prudent and would not affect taxpayers. I could see the absolute horror in union reps eyes if they were told this MIGHT happen. Their collective heads would spin, with heads explodiing. Welcome to the REAL world folks......
 

Plain_Jane

Bedroom Vixen
Instead of bitching aout the teachers, maybe you should read Bill 115 and consider the implications if the Liberals get away with this. Quote from Bill 115 -

Restrictions on review

No review by court
15. (1) No term or condition included in an employment contract or collective agreement under or by virtue of this Act, process for consultation prescribed under this Act, or decision, approval, act, advice, direction, regulation or order made by the Minister or Lieutenant Governor in Council under this Act shall be questioned or reviewed in any court.
Same
(2) No steps shall be taken to have a court question, review, prohibit or restrain any consultation, review or approval process prescribed or initiated under this Act at the Minister’s or Lieutenant Governor in Council’s discretion.
Restriction on review by arbitrator, Ontario Labour Relations Board
(3) Terms and conditions included in a collective agreement under or by virtue of this Act shall not be questioned or reviewed by an arbitrator, an arbitration board or the Ontario Labour Relations Board, except as provided by those terms or conditions.

Sort of makes the Government ALL SUPREME. No court is allowed to review or relue any of the Liberal's laws as being unconstitutional. Once this piece of legislation is allowed to stand it will be the precident for all future legislation in this country. Stephen Harper can pass his own legislation making him Prime Minister for life and simply include a clause as above that the legislation cannot be reviewed by the courts.

I would also ask the Education Minister why when the Durham Board & their High School Teachers last month negotiated a contract that was lower cost than that negotiotated by the Catholic teachers she rejected it because they didn't do as she dictated. Cost is not an issue here - the egos of Liberal Cabinet members and their entitlement to dictate to the citizens of Ontario.

We have the same attitude and law regarding the building of Dalton's windmills across the Province. Citizens, municipalties, regions were all stripped of their legal rights on that issue but nobody has yet had the courage to stand up to him on that issue.

Maybe if we really want democracy in this country we SHOULD be supporting the teachers and not bitching about them. Of course maybe the majority of you come from dicatorships and want to re-make Canada into the country you fled.
McGuinty also proposed, in the media, the Protecting Public Services Act that has powers much like bill 115. Anyone who works for a unionized environment may be interested to know that we'll be headed the way of Wisconsin if we can't get 115 repealed and if PPSA makes it into legislation and that isn't good for anyone (union spillover is what helps to keep non-union environments paying at a fair rate and providing some of the same benefits that unions have been able to achieve - no right to free collective bargaining and we can expect to see a general errosion of employment standards across the board).

Just my 2 cents.

xo Jane
 

trtinajax

New member
Apr 7, 2008
356
0
0
Maybe McGuinty and Hudak could break the impass and get this thing seattled if they really mean what they say. One of the stumbling blocks is McGuinty's problem with the banked sick days and the bonus that is paid out to the teachers on retirement for having not used all entitled sick days each year. These are two separate issues if you take a serious look at the teacher contracts, not one issue as Dalton & Laura lead to you believe. The first reduces the need for short & some long term disabilty insurance keeping and keep Board's costs down. The payout issue is a bonus that reduces the need for supply teachers at a cost of $ 250 per day. The 2nd is therefore a retirement bonus. If Dumb and Dumber are really against a retirement / severance bonus as they say, why don't they show some real leadership and immediately cancel the packages that their MPP's receive for not running in the next election or losing the next election. There are all kinds of people working on contracts which is what elected MPP are doing (4 years per contract). These normal workers don't get a severance package because their contract is "cancelled". Why should MPP's? A teacher getting bonus of $ 40,000 (possible only if they were never sick more than 5 days per year for their entire teaching career) verses Dalton collecting $ 346,500 for screwing the province & taxpayers for 9 years. Again, Dalton & Tim should some real leadership, pass the legislation required to cancel the MPP's "retirement" bonus, then go back to the teachers and talk restraint. Maybe the teachers will listen to a real leader.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
26,772
4,861
113
I was listening to a retired school board trustee being interviewed the other day. He said it would drive him nuts when a principal would retire early, collect their pension and sick days then apply for a vice-principal job a few months later effectively double dipping. Or the teachers who retire, collect pension then get rehired as subs. He said they'd even tell people in meetings that they were going to retire and then double dip. I call Bullshit! :mad:
Yeah, and they get their pension from Leaf ticket revenue which the Leaf fans in Toronto pay for.

Suckers!!!!!
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
26,772
4,861
113
Does anybody know what the average Ontario teacher makes per year btw??
 

basketcase

Well-known member
Dec 29, 2005
61,358
6,671
113
... ratings based on parent and student imput should play a part in salary and job security (or lack thereof). there is no accountability in the public system.
Sounds like trouble to me. Every teacher who actually pushes expectations on kids would be fired and the ones who give away marks would be rich.
 

hot.scorpio71

New member
Mar 11, 2012
91
0
0
Toronto Ontario. (West end)
Hey the teachers and support staff have agreed to a 2 year wage freeze, and they don't need to go after the benefits....and before they went after teachers they gave every other UNION a pay raise and they did not take there benefits away. How is that far...
 

Rockslinger

Banned
Apr 24, 2005
32,776
0
0
Damn, they cancelled the Christmas concert at my niece's grade school. She was so looking forward to singing Christmas carols with the other kids. Shame on you, teachers, shame on you. You broke an 8 year old girl's little heart because of your greed for paid sick days.
 

t.o.leafs.fan

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2006
1,362
157
63
It is a shame. But it's also another example of the countless things that educators do, voluntarily/outside of their paid duties. These things really are taken for granted. I wonder how many people reflect on how much time and energy these type of things take to organize and put on. How many people say thank you (not that this is what the organizers would likely be looking for). This new bill (not the loss of sick days) is going to kill the goodwill in education that has been enjoyed in Ontario for a long time. The gov't needs to sit down and actually make an attempt to negotiate or this type of thing will be commonplace, sadly.

Damn, they cancelled the Christmas concert at my niece's grade school. She was so looking forward to singing Christmas carols with the other kids. Shame on you, teachers, shame on you. You broke an 8 year old girl's little heart because of your greed for paid sick days.
 

t.o.leafs.fan

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2006
1,362
157
63
To the best of my knowledge, most boards have already gotten rid of paying out for accumulated sick days long ago.
 

FAST

Banned
Mar 12, 2004
10,069
1
0
The real picture

This new bill (not the loss of sick days) is going to kill the goodwill in education that has been enjoyed in Ontario for a long time. The gov't needs to sit down and actually make an attempt to negotiate or this type of thing will be commonplace, sadly.

The so called "good will",...was really nothing more than handing over blank cheques.

The government was negotiating,...but greed intervened!!

FAST
 
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