I was just watching CTV NEWS and they said that public sector workers average 13 sick days a year (compared to 8 for private sector workers) costing taxpayers $3.5billion a year. No doubt public sector unions will argue that their workers are so overworked and underpaid and under so much stress and that is why they get sick more often.
teachers strike?
- Thread starter red
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For the students
MOVING UP THE PAY SCALE is NOT a wage freeze,...THE LAST CONTRACT IS NULL AND VOID !!!
The reason teachers are having so much trouble with their current situation is,...they don't feel they have an employer,...and they are not employees.
FAST
Happens all the time !!!
They are still getting paid,...and too much actually !!!
MOVING UP THE PAY SCALE is NOT a wage freeze,...THE LAST CONTRACT IS NULL AND VOID !!!
The reason teachers are having so much trouble with their current situation is,...they don't feel they have an employer,...and they are not employees.
FAST
Yea, and lots of cops make over $100k to wait around a courtroom at time and a half, or stare down a hole at a construction site. My (now former) financial advisor does dick all, takes the summers and December off, and the past 2 years has lost me more than he's ever made for me nets over $300k. And then there are those assholes who brought down the economy and still have their jobs, still got their bonuses, and likely have never seen their salary dip below $500k.
Life ain't fair, and when it comes to sweet deals, the teachers are pretty low on the sweet deal pole-I haven't even touched on pro athletes, politicians, people in the media, hydro workers, TTC employees, most IT 'professionals' (who I know as a fact, spend most of their days cruising the net or playing computer games).
And why attack teachers anyway? Do you set a higher standard for them as human beings then the rest of society? They saw that governments (which you elected) were giving away the shop just to stay in power. They recognized the opportunity and they took it. They were smart enough to realize that their financial and lifestyle needs would be met by taking this job and they did what anybody else would have done-they seized the opportunity.
If you're whining because you're dissatisfied with your lot in life and you think that the teachers have too sweet a deal, then there's nothing stopping you from becoming a teacher. The game's not rigged. If you think that teachers have it so good, then the smart thing to do would be to become one.
I don't think your 'argument' stands up. The fact is, the middle class in North America was at it's most prosperous when it was most unionized. As unions lost influence, the middle class got squeezed out. Now we have a huge lower class, a diminished middle class, and a slightly larger and disproportionately more wealthy upper class.
As for the students, isn't it up to the government to make sure that students have a quality education? Leaving this up to the teachers, is like putting bankers in charge of the economy. Or meat processors in charge of setting meat processing standards. Someone has to provide the guidelines, resources, and checks and balances. And unfortunately, successive governments have gutted all of these systems so that you can have a few extra dollars in your pocket.
Your irrational approach to the issue at hand and the example of teachers being worth much more than what they are paid made you a likely candidate to be a teacher. Must be a family member then. Calling everyone a douchbag if they disagree with you is a good way to ensure that your business remains small
The fact that you can multiply is good the fact that you ignore the other costs and rules of day care for 30 to make a hypothetical point is poor.
ah. well thats proof then. you must have been educated by the 90% i was talking about.
Its high time the teachers and ALL government employee's (and that includes members of parliament) wake up in the REAL world...
Let there be light
BUT unions did NOT get squeezed out,...they oozed out all on their own.
As I said before,...you can't force (by union tactics) OR legislate high paying jobs into existence,… well maybe in a couple of south American countries.
FAST
IF you are calling some one who is OVER PAID to put a screw in a dash board,...MIDDLE CLASS,...you may be right.
BUT unions did NOT get squeezed out,...they oozed out all on their own.
As I said before,...you can't force (by union tactics) OR legislate high paying jobs into existence,… well maybe in a couple of south American countries.
Of course its up to the government,...that’s what its trying to do,...but unions keep on getting in the way.
FAST
Not at all.
My arguement in life has always been - if you don't like your current job, find a different one.
I have lived my entire working life by this motto.
I would urge the teachers who feel hard done by to do likewise - quit and find another job. Simple.
Problem is....
This concept is completely lost on almost all that live in this "entitlement" society we have created for ourselves... :frusty:
they would be on that like a fat girl on a plate of cupcakes and this whole battle between the province and the union would be over. I love the threat to declare them an essential service and not have them strike, well then pay them and give them the exact same things the police and firefighters get.
Except under McGuinty's watch the student's marks have risen while their intellect has shrunk. Oh today's student is good with technology, their iPhones, iPads, computer games, etc but ask any student today to tell you where in a the world countries are located, such as Iraq or Chad, and I bet you the vast majority would not be able to tell you. Go thru a drive-thru restaurant and get a bill for $10.25 and give the cashier $20.25 and watch the confusion. I was actually told one day it was illegal to give her more than a $20.00 bill. The Ministry of Education under Dalton's guidance is putting the pressure on school boards to get their failure rate to zero and their class averages to at least 75%. The pressure is then applied downward from the Boards to the Principals and on to the teachers. You don't improve your educational system by dumbing down your standards. Students today are not punished for failing to submit assignments and deadlines mean nothing to them. Teachers have to put up with student's telling them "to fuck off" or even "to suck my cock".
We need brighter smarter graduates and you only achieve that by raising the expectations you place on the students, not by dictates from somebody in the Ministry office who has never been in the classroom.
My daughter was taking a post-gradute course this fall and the class got into a discussion about marks. The question was could the Professor give everyone in the class an A. The professor remarked that his marks were strickly based on what each student could achieve. He went on to say that high school marks are now meaningless in trying to determine which students should be accepted into university. The policy now seems to be accept a greater number of first year students and the uneducated ones will fail themselves out of university. Even some students are graduating from under-graduate programs without an education. My daughter found that to be true as a number of students in her class couldn't write a proper paper or do a class presentation.
There are some very good teachers out there that must be encouraged, not bitched at and degraded as some in this thread are doing. The majority of teachers are probably average and they need to be encouraged to upgrade their skills. Then there is a group of deadwood that needs to be removed from the system. It's time for the teachers, the unions, the boards and the province to put aside their differences and start working to upgrade our educational standards. If we continue to downgrade our educational system to make all students feel good about themselves it won't be long before we become a third world country.
Remember Dalton's objective when he became the Educational Premier - by the time he finished as Premier ALL students would be ABOVE AVERAGE. What a lofty ridiculous objective to have. What chance does our education system have when it's being driven by a Premier that doesn't understand the definition of average.
parent and student input? have you seen some of the twits that have been allowed to procreate? and now you want their input for teachers? these are the same people who you get saying "ohhh my child couldnt have lit that desk on fire he is an angel"
and asking kids' input, sure let's allow them to ride motorcycles, sky dive and vote too.Asian students can kick our asses in math and the hard sciences but I think our students are much better at philosophy and arguing. Oh yes, let's not forget "affirmative, no child left behind, action".
The government is trying to sell this as being fiscally responsible.
But what happens in a few years when the deficit is still there? Do we slash the teachers again?
If the government didn't waste billions on e-health, ornge, moving power plants that might be a good start.
I listed a number of things that schools could do to cut costs and increase revenue but no one seems to want to talk about that they just want to slag teachers.
In addition to the things that I suggested......
how about getting better contracts for supplies? I'm sure that school boards are paying more than they need to for pens to computers.
also how about using space differently? In places like toronto build schools at the base of a building where the upper levels double as space for other things be it government offices or building paid underground parking beneath it?
also how about an audit of how much is spent on things like having a pencil sharpener installed? We had the horror story of obscene charges for that in the Toronto School board.
So again yes some sort of pay freeze or cuts from benefits is necessary but if fiscal responsibility is the goal then the operation of the education system as a whole needs to be overhauled.
In addition to that if quality is of interest then that too needs to be addressed. Making it easier to fire deadwood would be a great start, keeping good wages and benefits will attract better people to replace the "newspaper reading going through the motions" stereotype.
Personally I think this is all a political game with little true interest in erasing the deficit. If that were the case then there should be audits top to bottom of the government.
On a side note..... education is a service provided by the government not a business like the railway. As a result of this we have to accept that it is going to be an expense.... granted one that could be trimmed. Because it we want to run the government like a business then there's a lot of other programs that should also be on the chopping block.
But what happens in a few years when the deficit is still there? Do we slash the teachers again?
If the government didn't waste billions on e-health, ornge, moving power plants that might be a good start.
I listed a number of things that schools could do to cut costs and increase revenue but no one seems to want to talk about that they just want to slag teachers.
In addition to the things that I suggested......
how about getting better contracts for supplies? I'm sure that school boards are paying more than they need to for pens to computers.
also how about using space differently? In places like toronto build schools at the base of a building where the upper levels double as space for other things be it government offices or building paid underground parking beneath it?
also how about an audit of how much is spent on things like having a pencil sharpener installed? We had the horror story of obscene charges for that in the Toronto School board.
So again yes some sort of pay freeze or cuts from benefits is necessary but if fiscal responsibility is the goal then the operation of the education system as a whole needs to be overhauled.
In addition to that if quality is of interest then that too needs to be addressed. Making it easier to fire deadwood would be a great start, keeping good wages and benefits will attract better people to replace the "newspaper reading going through the motions" stereotype.
Personally I think this is all a political game with little true interest in erasing the deficit. If that were the case then there should be audits top to bottom of the government.
On a side note..... education is a service provided by the government not a business like the railway. As a result of this we have to accept that it is going to be an expense.... granted one that could be trimmed. Because it we want to run the government like a business then there's a lot of other programs that should also be on the chopping block.
That was then...this is now
There is NO law, legal or logic, that says that an old contract has to be adhered to once it has run out, or has ANY bearing on the new one.
I know,...now we are going to hear the old union stand by,..."they want to take away what we fought for",...just what the hell does that mean,...we are going to refuse to do our jobs of teaching students,...is that what it means ?????
FAST
New contracts are renegotiated all of the time,...the CAW and UAW just did that,...the new contracts have little to do with the old.
There is NO law, legal or logic, that says that an old contract has to be adhered to once it has run out, or has ANY bearing on the new one.
I know,...now we are going to hear the old union stand by,..."they want to take away what we fought for",...just what the hell does that mean,...we are going to refuse to do our jobs of teaching students,...is that what it means ?????
FAST
So what's the point of promising pensions and benefits that don't kick in till long after the contract has expired?
If that's the case promise all teachers a unicorn and a double rainbow upon retirement
If you don't understand wanting to fight for what was promised then I can't help you
