Sweden model deemed a success

[jelly baby]

If you put mask on your bum, does it stop fart ?

No.

If you put mask on your face, does it stop coronavirus ?

No.

In Quebec you can be arrested for face/head coverings, re: Islamaphobia.

That's my comment.

 

[basketcase]

...

And before you bring up up their high mortality rate, that also is wrong and I'll post why later today when I get home

I won't post the rate, I'll post the huge numbers of dead to end up in the same situation as their neighbouring countries, both economically and in terms of new cases.

 

[basketcase]

Herd immunity for the win.

Meanwhile Canada intends to play whack-a-mole for however long it takes for a vaccine that may prove to be useless.

Herd immunity to covid requires at least 66% of the population to be immune (depends on the R value). Last data on antibodies in Sweden was under 20% (and Swedish authorities doubt that immunity lasts more than 6 months).

The reason for the low case count is that most people are listening to at least some of the recommendations and they have a solid health care system that people trust.

 

[basketcase]

Its herd immunity to the point where the spreading of the virus drastically slows down, but it doesnt stop altogether.
...

Sorry but you can't make up your own definitions.

 

[Boss Nass]

Success? Ask the people who died. Oh, you can't, because they're fucking dead.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Herd immunity to covid requires at least 66% of the population to be immune (depends on the R value). Last data on antibodies in Sweden was under 20% (and Swedish authorities doubt that immunity lasts more than 6 months)

Scientists are divided on that. There's too little known about the virus to come to those conclusions.

Bottom line is Sweden isnt having many new infections or deaths anymore, and thats despite not locking down or wearing masks

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Sorry but you can't make up your own definitions

Its not my definition

 

[squeezer]

Scientists are divided on that. There's too little known about the virus to come to those conclusions.

Bottom line is Sweden isnt having many new infections or deaths anymore, and thats despiute not locking down or wearing masks

Hate to break it to you bud but Justin and Doug are thinking rolling back stages without ruling out a lockdown if we get a second wave caused by selfish folks.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Hate to break it to you bud but Justin and Doug are thinking rolling back stages without ruling out a lockdown if we get a second wave caused by selfish folks

Another lockdown is almost inevitable with all those kids going back to school.
Those kids grade 4 to 12 are all wearing masks BTW:

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/the-current-for-aug-10-2020-1.5680419/kids-may-find-masks-uncomfortable-but-they-ll-be-vital-to-stopping-covid-19-in-schools-says-expert-1.5680495

 

[lenny2]

Its herd immunity to the point where the spreading of the virus drastically slows down, but it doesnt stop altogether.
Maybe herd immunity is the wrong term to use, but I think you get what I'm saying

Yes, i get that you don't understand the meaning of "herd immunity" or it being achieved.

My facebook buddy who lives in Sweden says almost nobody wears a mask. He would know, he lives in Stockholm

And yet Sweden have 5 times more total deaths than their 3 neighbours with a 50% larger population. That is not "success", but failure.

BTW their 3 neighbours did not have much mask wearing either & shutdown.

They had much more stringent rules

Rules don't matter. What matters is what people do. In practice the Swedish people locked themselves down, so much the same as a lockdown in reality.

The scientific world is divided on whether masks make much difference

"While most of the world has come to terms with covering their noses and mouths in crowded places,..."

Sweden is in the small minority.

 

[malata]

fuck me. thought this was about a swedish model

 

[lenny2]

If you dont mind Lenny, I'll take the word of Jonas Ludvigsson who's a professor of epidemiology over yours

"He argues that while that might be true on the surface, especially with masks — which Sweden is one of the few countries not to recommend wearing in public — the differences elsewhere are exaggerated. Swedes have stopped travelling just as much as neighbours; hotels and restaurants may not have closed but have been severely affected."

"He points to the markings in supermarkets showing people where to stand and detailed restrictions on restaurants in terms of how many people they can have and how they serve them."

" “These types of restrictions don’t exist almost anywhere else than in Sweden." "

"..."I’ve worked in hospitals. I’ve seen the flu epidemics and people coming in and overflooding the hospitals." "

" Our conversation ends with Tegnell again swimming against the tide, and warning that a vaccine — if and when it comes — will not be the “silver bullet”. He adds: “Once again, I’m not very fond of easy solutions to complex problems and to believe that once the vaccine is here, we can go back and live as we always have done. I think that’s a dangerous message to send because it’s not going to be that easy.” "

Anders Tegnell and the Swedish Covid experiment | Free to read

The controversial epidemiologist believes lockdown is ‘using a hammer to kill a fly’. Could he be proved right?

www.ft.com

 

[Malibuk]

This is a marathon, not a sprint.
It is way too early to claim the Swedish model a success or failure.
It is also too soon to quantify the economic, physical and mental tolls of the lockdowns.
The potential for vaccines and future shutdowns are paramount unknown variables.
We haven't even seen the end of CERB/EI and now they are talking about Universal Basic Income.
We haven't even seen end of the rent and wage subsidies.
There are going to be many evictions, mortgage defaults, and bankruptcies.
We could very well be heading for an economic depression.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

BTW their 3 neighbours did not have much mask wearing either & shutdown

This is simply not true. Their Covid measures were much more stringent than Sweden

In practice the Swedish people locked themselves down, so much the same as a lockdown in reality

Also not true according to my Facebook buddy. Sweden never locked down restaurants, schools, bars, offices, stores....etc.

You're pulling shit out of your ass, lenny

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

This is a marathon, not a sprint.
It is way too early to claim the Swedish model a success or failure.
It is also too soon to quantify the economic, physical and mental tolls of the lockdowns.
The potential for vaccines and future shutdowns are paramount unknown variables.
We haven't even seen the end of CERB/EI and now they are talking about Universal Basic Income.
We haven't even seen end of the rent and wage subsidies.
There are going to be many evictions, mortgage defaults, and bankruptcies.
We could very well be heading for an economic depression.

That is actually a very fair assessment so far.
Its way too early in the game to quantify which system is, or which system has not, worked well so far

 

[basketcase]

Scientists are divided on that....

I'm sure there is discussion of the exact percentage (that's what scientists do) but you will find all estimates to be at least 50% and Sweden is nowhere near. That means the reason Sweden's numbers are down can not be because of herd immunity.

 

[shack]

Its way too early in the game to quantify which system is, or which system has not, worked well so far

So basically, you are saying that the title of your thread is inaccurate. It is too early to call it a success.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

So basically, you are saying that the title of your thread is inaccurate. It is too early to call it a success

Yupper, I concede that.

Remember though, its not me claiming early victory, its the article in OP. So far though you can't argue that Sweden is having a downward trend in their new infection rate, and they're doing that without any shutdowns or mandatory masks.

Have a look for yourself: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

 

[shack]

Yupper, I concede that.

Remember though, its not me claiming early victory, its the article in OP.

Acknowledged.

 

[lenny2]

This is simply not true.

Wrong, what i said is 100% true & factual.

Also not true according to my Facebook buddy. Sweden never locked down restaurants, schools, bars, offices, stores....etc.

Yet many people stopped going out & others changed their work location to home, etc. The same thing that people did in lockdown countries.

I previously quoted a Swedish article stating the country had the feel of being in a lockdown.

Even your Swedish expert said, as quoted earlier in this thread:

"...the differences elsewhere are exaggerated. Swedes have stopped travelling just as much as neighbours; hotels and restaurants may not have closed but have been severely affected."

But Sweden acted less responsibly than their neighbours which caused 5 X more combined deaths in Sweden than in their 3 neighbouring countries with a combined population 50% less than Sweden.