Surprise, surprise - Jordan Manners

[xdog]

KWI, my post was referring to education policy in Ontario where it's almost impossible for a child to be held back even though he/she is nowhere close to successfully completing the required subjects.
When I was younger, children actually failed. We weren't so concerned about their feelings that we would allow them to graduate even if they were not ready. if children are not allowed to fail anymore, how relevant is today's marking system? What weight does an "A" carry nowadays?
Any parent should be proud of their child if they score an "A" in any particular subject. My concern is that Mrs.Manners was referring to her son as a straight A student with no problems, even though he obviously had behavioural issues. Rather than calling for an inquest, perhaps she should be asking herself why she allows her children to associate with criminals?


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[tboy]

KWI: I have direct knowledge of SPED programs as a family member is enrolled in the program at school.

You say an A is an A? NOT. Here's why I feel that way: 2 kids in the family. In grade 9, both are in regular class. 1 gets D's and F's and the other C's. The D's and F's one goes into SPED and gets A's, the other C's. Is this right? Make the one who is taking harder classes feel the pressure of the one taking the easier classes is superior? You're talking about a non-level playing field. Even you yourself say an A is an A but you're talking apples and oranges here. The kid attending regular class got "why can't you get A's like ____"? "Look at ____'s report card, HE"S getting A's, why can't you"??? which is 10000% bullshit and NO one should have ANY bragging rights to doing well in a slanted playing field.

BTW: the one attending regular classes happened to take a look at the home work of the SPED student and they said to me: I could do that with my eyes closed and not even have to think. SO, why not teach ALL students the SPED courses?

Sure, there are handicapped people who are better at some things than I am. Take Stephen Hawking for example. BUT dont' for 1 second try to tell me that if I ran a foot race with him that he should win because he's in a wheelchair. Hence, that's why you say, they have special olympics instead of having the special atheletes compete in the regular Olympics. That's why an A in SPED doesn't hold the same value as an A in regular classes and SHOULDN'T be insinuated that it is.

I will say this to you again, which you ignored last time: Who would YOU want operating on you? A SPED doctor or one that graduated top of his class at Harvard Med?

 

[basketcase]

KWI, my post was referring to education policy in Ontario where it's almost impossible for a child to be held back even though he/she is nowhere close to successfully completing the required subjects....

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From the star today (spawned by the same event as this thread)
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/223488

Failure is not an option

She has skipped 30 classes in a row and hasn't handed in an assignment all term, but the principal wants her teacher to cut this Grade 12 student some slack.

"He told me, 'Look, the student says she's finally willing to hand in all her work, so I want you to mark it and don't take off points for being late,'" sighs the English teacher at a west Toronto high school.

"Whatever happened to deadlines? We bend over so far for kids these days, it's a joke."

With the school year almost done, the pressure for marks is on – and not just for students, but also teachers.

A growing chorus of educators say Queen's Park's new drive to keep kids in school to 18 is pushing them to coddle students with inflated marks, too many second, third and fourth chances and too few flunking grades, adding to an already lofty sense of entitlement.

In a new survey of nearly 1,000 high school teachers in Durham Region, four out of 10 say they feel principals push them to drop standards so more students will pass. One in four feels pressured not to give an F.
....

 

[dcbogey]

Somewhat interesting that the G&M has a story on the same theme today.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070608.wfail09/BNStory/National/home
I'll take their word that there are studies that show that "failing" kids is counter-productive, although it seems to flow against common sense. When I was in elementary school the thought of "failing" was a huge motivating factor to me. And what kind of lesson are we teaching our kids if its ok to skip class, not had in assignments, etc and still pass? How long would that kind of behaviour be acceptable in the work place? I think its about time we teach our kids that if you don't do the work you don't get the reward.

 

[Diode]

The post you wrote a year ago was about your employees not wanting to travel or work over time. Big difference here hon. Huge!!!

You were seen as a high maintenance and demanding boss from that post if I remember correctly and I was not the only one who felt that way.

This is a completely different situation. Using a tragedy like this to try and justify a post you made a year ago............. come on buddy. Move on, I know I did.

Kiarra

Ah sweet as always....and wrong again.
Perhaps YOU saw me as a "high maintenance and demanding boss" I saw my self as a simple REALIST!
Sure, everybody shouldbe able do what ever they want.
Tell the boss they could not give a care about the big account..you see juniour has a big bocce game..and if I'm not there..well he'll be ruined.
Or I fuck a whole bunch of women, and sorry if you get knocked up, my penis is calling....no money for you, while I pursue happiness.
K(I)WI, think a little harder...What I said was people are wimps...They will not stick to their promises..'cause they are selfish, and weak.
I wrotenothing about the poor kid Jordan who was shot. Terrible tradgedy.
But as typical, you did not read the direction of the threads, and spouted off half cocked.
We've gotten into the "root causes" bullshit.
People say its cause there is poverty.
I say "shit:!
Some have always been poor.
Now, too many are just WEAK!
The root "cause" is cause..people are weaker Now, compared to before.


Have a nice day!

 

[xdog]

Sorry to not have replied right away, but I was gone for the night.

Xdog, Tboy and Diode

I have the same thing to say to all of you which is we are never going to agree. I think you guys come off with an arrogance that is just plain ignorant and down right rude to others. I think it is a a disgusting trait as a human, but I apologize as I was the one who brought it all back by posting here. A mistake I will not make so quickly again.

You can keep your judgments, I will not partake anymore, but as to the question of who I would have preform surgery, that not an answerable question as I would need to way more then medical degrees to choose any doctor opening me up. That is just safe practice and common sense for anyone.

Kiarra

You say that we are judgemental and yet you call us arrogant, ignorant, and rude. Where in my posts was I judgemental? As for picking doctors, I know know which one I would pick (am I being judgemental again?) and it wouldn't be about making sure someone's feelings weren't hurt.
As for not posting again, I will miss your opinion. Even though we disagree on most subjects, I still respect your opinion. It's a free world and we should be able to express ourselves.

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[zekestone]

Sorry to not have replied right away, but I was gone for the night.

Xdog, Tboy and Diode

I have the same thing to say to all of you which is we are never going to agree. I think you guys come off with an arrogance that is just plain ignorant and down right rude to others. I think it is a a disgusting trait as a human, but I apologize as I was the one who brought it all back by posting here. A mistake I will not make so quickly again.

You can keep your judgments, I will not partake anymore, but as to the question of who I would have preform surgery, that not an answerable question as I would need to way more then medical degrees to choose any doctor opening me up. That is just safe practice and common sense for anyone.

Kiarra

I still remember high school... and in high school, I took all my courses at the 'advanced' level since my plan was to go to university.

I got stuck in a Grade 12 'General' level math class once because the advanced class was full. Let me tell you... This grade 12 general math was like grade 9 or 10 advanced. There was a *big* difference.

I dropped the course because it was useless and replaced it with something else.

An "A" in general math is in NO WAY equivalent to an "A" at the advanced level.

In my school, we also had special Ed students. Those students didn't take courses at the Advanced or general level. No... they took courses at a level call "Basic". I don't think I need to describe how "Basic" level math compared to Advanced. But let's just say that students in Basic weren't covering much Algebra or Calculus.

So what I'm saying is that to be a straight "A" student with courses that will get you into university... THAT means something. It means that you're one of the best.

Straight As at lower levels are meaningless.

I wasn't a "Straight A" student, but my non-Straight-A grades were *real*. They were real because I had tough teachers and when I got into university, I had a higher GPA in 1st and 2nd year university than what I had in Grade 13. And I wasn't taking any BS Liberal Arts program either.

As for your statement
"but as to the question of who I would have preform surgery, that not an answerable question as I would need to way more then medical degrees to choose any doctor opening me up."

Oh please. It's very answerable. The answer is that NOBODY in their right mind would choose the doctor with the 'Special Ed' or 'basic-level' medical degree unless it was the most minor of procedures and/or there was NO other option.

C'mon. You weren't born yesterday, were you?

We are told that we are all equal. Reading your posts suggest to me that you believe this.

But that is bullshit. And yes, I know that's harsh. But it's a harsh world out there.

Some people are better at some things than others. A few people are all-around brilliant. And some people are complete morons. Some people are fairly smart, but just lazy. Some people aren't that smart, but they make up for it by working their asses off.

Also factoring into this is a person's ego... some people are humble enough to admit that they lack expertise in a given area and get help. Others have huge egos and suffer as a result.

Saying "straight A student" implies being one of the best *overall*.

"Yeah, but for 'his level' it's really good..." blah blah blah.

That line of reasoning is like being in a war and almost dodging a bullet... and trying to explain to the bullet why your lack of dexterity should not be held against you and cause you to die because the level of dodging you did was the best dodging you've done so far.

But I have a feeling that the bullet won't be open to much negotiation. Same goes for a person in need of surgery and the credentials of the doctor working on him/her.

The world isn't fair and is often harsh.

 

[xdog]

I agree with one statement in your reply.

blah blah blah

- Not about to start a debate with someone who wants to tell me what "I" would do. Speak for yourself honey. I am not just talking about a cruel world here, I am talking about people's attidutes that can be adjusted with proper ................... You know what, you're not worht my typing time either.

Xdog, just not going to both posting to anything that I feel is actually meanful on this board in regards to posters like you, tboy etc.

Enjoy the thread boys, I'm outta here....


Kiarra

Oh kWI, without you posting, where will the sympathy come from? Typical, you don't agree with someone so they must not be as smart as you. at least you're not being judgemental. lol. Also, I like the "proper adjustment" that you mention; as if turning to violence is the ultimate solution. Was it not violence that begat this thread/

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[Mongrel4u]

KWI

Sorry but there IS a difference when you compare straight "A" students studying at various levels.... an academic difference. You cant tell me there is no difference between a SPED student and one that is studying at the advanced level that most other students study at.

Now bear in mind this is no reflection on the individual; they may turn out to be one of the most successful/richest/most respected of their class in the future, who knows. It simply means that they are below ACADEMIC standards set by the school board....it doesnt mean they are "dumb" (many great minds in the past did poorly in school), "slow", "wont amount to anything", or any less deserving than any other student....it doesnt even necessarily mean that they dont work as hard either.

Having said the above, perhaps you were thinking the same thing when you said this:

but as to the question of who I would have preform surgery, that not an answerable question as I would need to way more then medical degrees to choose any doctor opening me up. That is just safe practice and common sense for anyone.

Kiarra

Sure, an academic grade doesnt necessarily act as a good professional measure in all cases. A Doctor at the top of his class may not be the best out there; grades dont promise professional success...but unless you have referral or inside info you'll never know who the best actually is..


Its just a letter on a piece of paper which in and of itself will not guarantee success in the grand scheme of things.....

but dont fool yourself, the cold hard truth is an "A" is NOT an "A" when comparing different levels of study....and that may not count for shit with some folks but it is what it is....sorry

 

[LancsLad]

Well heres a twist.


seems that little angel, Jordan ( aka Stackz) has an older sister who is included in those picked up on weapons charges in the sweep of the gangs.


Wow, what a surprise, didn't see that coming.

 

[Anderson]

Aww, I was just going to write that !

I will state it again and again , that if a boy learns how to be a man from the boys on the corner ( who ain't no men) he cannot become a man.

How about the dad of those 3 generals who were arrested stating about how there are no white people in the courtroom being charged. He has the audacity to say this while his 3 sons are the top 3 Cripts that were arrested ???

And Manners mom talking about investigations into schools while her son and daughter are either members or affiliated at the least?

Ahh, responsibility and ownership anyone ?

 

[SunocoOil]

Surprise!!!!!!!!

Jordan MANNERS sister now in the clink...part of the Driftwood Crips roundup.

Charged with Possession of a weapon. Oh I know..shes INNOCENT til proven guilty.

Parents back her saying she was IN THE WRONG PLACE AT THE WRONG TIME.

I just wish parents would lose it on these kids and make them take responsiblity, instead of BACKING them and giving the kids ill guided support.

I know INNOCENT TIL PROVEN...but she did get held for a BAIL HEARING MONDAY!!! Hmmmmmm

 

[Anderson]

I feel really bad for his mom ( could anyone with kids even begin to imagine her pain) but my issue is really with the community in general and hearing any comments from anyone in that specific community not taking ownership of the real issues and blaming the police, the school, the lack of whites being arrested and most importantly not standing up and stating what the real issue is .Gangs,drugs , violence and absent fathers .

 

[fuji]

I'll go one step further, and harsh as this may sound:

The mother IS the problem.

Or at least a big part if it. Not much sympathy for her now. Her kids are into the gang culture and she is DEFENDING them.

 

[Anderson]

I could only imagine what she could do with no dad presence for the kids.

It ain't easy and she is a mom with a dead boy so I really cannot hold her to her words right now.

Seriously, what could she do.

I went to school with lots of these kids in New York and it would be very difficult for any single moms living with swarming gang members ( and these were real serious gang bangers there, not the Driftwood type at all )outside your front door.Either way , you are out of luck.

 

[SunocoOil]

Or more likely Stronbeau

I wonder sometimes if the Mom would have been better off never having the Fatherless children!!!!

 

[Esco!]

I'd suggest you bring a machine-gun!

Fixed your post