Sue-Ann Levy (Sun) - Liberals refuse to make needed spending cuts

[Lovehobby]

Increase in taxes? Great idea. The government is not run for your welfare. It is run for the benefit of the whole society. Social mobility is slowing down services are stretched to the limit, infrastructure is crumbling, what this province needs is a tax increase.

I gladly pay. It is the price of a civilized society.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Increase in taxes? Great idea. The government is not run for your welfare. It is run for the benefit of the whole society. Social mobility is slowing down services are stretched to the limit, infrastructure is crumbling, what this province needs is a tax increase.

I gladly pay. It is the price of a civilized society.

I would gladly support other measures, such as reducing the generosity of the public sector pension plans.

That said, I think your response is intellectually dishonest. I didn't question the need to pay taxes for services that benefit our society.

However, the Wynne government has been wasting huge sums of money on things that are of no benefit, such as the billions wasted on renewable energy. "Civilized society" doesn't need to see billions wasted on things that produce no benefit whatsoever.

 

[Lovehobby]

I would gladly support other measures, such as reducing the generosity of the public sector pension plans.

That said, I think your response is intellectually dishonest. I didn't question the need to pay taxes for services that benefit our society.

However, the Wynne government has been wasting huge sums of money on things that are of no benefit, such as the billions wasted on renewable energy. "Civilized society" doesn't need to see billions wasted on things that produce no benefit whatsoever.

Nobody likes waste such as gas plants. People who challenge "government waste" need to be very specific. Government pensions are negotiated. You cannot reneg on negotiated contracts. Teachers and other public servants pay a very high %of their wages to pensions, often 15%. If yiu want to attract the best possible to teach for example, you need to pay for it. Pensions are just deferred wages.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Nobody likes waste such as gas plants. People who challenge "government waste" need to be very specific.

I have been "very specific."

To begin with, I didn't say anything about the gas plants. I spoke about the billions being wasted on renewable energy. The government should acknowledge the Green Energy Act has been an unmitigated disaster, scrap the Green Energy Act, and achieve whatever savings are achievable.

It should also scrap the so-called Clean Energy Benefit, which does nothing to promote clean energy and is merely bribing voters with their own money (giving people discounts on their hydro bills that are paid through government deficits).

I would scrap all-day kindergarten. At the very least, end the practice of having teachers in the kindergarten classrooms alongside the early childhood educators. Getting rid of the teachers would save about $1 billion.

I think the Globe is right that the tuition grant should also be scrapped.

The problem for you, Lovehobby, is that you continue to defend the motives of a government that is dishonest.

If Wynne feels higher taxes are needed because the finances are a complete mess, then let her say that. Acknowledge the books are a mess and that she feels the only solution is higher taxes.

Then we can have an honest debate. If more people prefer Wynne's solutions over mine, so be it. I'll think they're wrong but I'll accept the outcome.

Unfortunately, the current situation is just the usual Liberal dishonesty. Other than endless consultations about "revenue tools" for transit, it looks like the government that was elected on promises not to raise taxes or run deficits is playing more shell games.

 

[Lovehobby]

End clean energy

Eliminate early childhood education

Cancel tuition relief

You don't have to be a totally ignorant fool to believe this stuff but it sure helps.

Watch your knuckles they are dragging on the ground, try to breath through your nose. Seems you are drooling as well.

 

[Lovehobby]

I am not a Liberal, I am NDP if anything. I only support some Liberal policies when they are attacked from the right.

Following your policies we will freeze in the dark in a state of ignorance as to why.

Dishonest? OMG Nigel Wright, Mike Duffy, Pamela Wallin, Patrick Brazeau, Rob Ford.... need we continue. Look up dishonest in the dictionary. It means Tory.

 

[Moviefan-2]

End clean energy

Eliminate early childhood education

Cancel tuition relief

You don't have to be a totally ignorant fool to believe this stuff but it sure helps.

Watch your knuckles they are dragging on the ground, try to breath through your nose. Seems you are drooling as well.

You forgot to call me a member of the Flat Earth Society.

However, one might expect a person who claims to have five degrees to be a bit better educated on current affairs in Ontario.

Let's consider the Green Energy Act. The government's actions were slammed by then auditor general Jim McCarter in his 2011 report.

According to McCarter, the Green Energy Act was brought in without any cost-benefit analysis, billions are being spent on renewable energy without any oversight, and the jobs that the Liberals claimed would be created were complete fiction. In fact, McCarter said Ontario is most likely losing jobs due to this legislation.

http://www.auditor.on.ca/en/reports_en/en11/303en11.pdf

As for the environmental benefits? Sorry, but the amount of energy being produced is much too tiny to be having any impact.

Whether you like it or not, I have once again met your challenge to produce credible examples of areas where savings could be achieved without any harm to our society.

In fact, I would go much further. Not only can important services be maintained, but Ontario will be more prosperous if we reduce the size of government and stop wasting money on things such as the Green Energy Act.

(By the way, there's no point trying to change the subject by talking about the Senate. I'm on record as saying the Senate should be abolished).

 

[Lovehobby]

You forgot to call me a member of the Flat Earth Society.

However, one might expect a person who claims to have five degrees to be a bit better educated on current affairs in Ontario.

Let's consider the Green Energy Act. The government's actions were slammed by then auditor general Jim McCarter in his 2011 report.

According to McCarter, the Green Energy Act was brought in without any cost-benefit analysis, billions are being spent on renewable energy without any oversight, and the jobs that the Liberals claimed would be created were complete fiction. In fact, McCarter said Ontario is most likely losing jobs due to this legislation.

http://www.auditor.on.ca/en/reports_en/en11/303en11.pdf

As for the environmental benefits? Sorry, but the amount of energy being produced is much too tiny to be having any impact.

Whether you like it or not, I have once again met your challenge to produce credible examples of areas where savings could be achieved without any harm to our society.

In fact, I would go much further. Not only can important services be maintained, but Ontario will be more prosperous if we reduce the size of government and stop wasting money on things such as the Green Energy Act.

(By the way, there's no point trying to change the subject by talking about the Senate. I'm on record as saying the Senate should be abolished).

Many mistakes will be made on the road to Green Energy but that is the price we pay so that we don't all freeze in the dark some day. Fossel fuels and nuclear unsustainable. You know this.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Many mistakes will be made on the road to Green Energy but that is the price we pay so that we don't all freeze in the dark some day. Fossel fuels and nuclear unsustainable. You know this.

There is nothing in the Green Energy Act that has made energy in Ontario more sustainable.

The problem goes much deeper than the botched implementation of the act (although it is true it has been badly botched). The entire policy is a disaster. Even if it mistakes hadn't been made, it still would have ended in utter failure. No other outcome was possible.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...s-to-fade/article12840170/#dashboard/follows/

But, hey, don't take my word for it. I agree with the former auditor general on this one: Let's have an independent cost-benefit analysis done.

 

[Lovehobby]

There is nothing in the Green Energy Act that has made energy in Ontario more sustainable.

The problem goes much deeper than the botched implementation of the act (although it is true it has been badly botched). The entire policy is a disaster. Even if it mistakes hadn't been made, it still would have ended in utter failure. No other outcome was possible.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...s-to-fade/article12840170/#dashboard/follows/

But, hey, don't take my word for it. I agree with the former auditor general on this one: Let's have an independent cost-benefit analysis done.

http://environmentaldefence.ca/blog/green-energy-better-our-environment-and-our-wallets

 

[groggy]

Just because we just had another super storm and temperatures and co2 levels are near ice age levels.

Pay now, let your children live later.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Pay now, let your children live later.

The renewable energy being produced isn't sufficient to make any difference. It is fiction to think the Green Energy Act is saving anyone's life, now or in the future.

 

[Lovehobby]

The renewable energy being produced isn't sufficient to make any difference. It is fiction to think the Green Energy Act is saving anyone's life, now or in the future.

It is the only alternative or the planet dies.

 

[Moviefan-2]

It is the only alternative or the planet dies.

If it isn't achieving anything positive (and it's a confirmed fact that it isn't), then it isn't an alternative.

As I said in my previous post, it is fiction to think the Green Energy Act is saving anyone's life, now or in the future.

The renewables that we're massively subsidizing don't even come close to producing enough energy to make any difference. And that isn't expected to change.

 

[groggy]

If it isn't achieving anything positive (and it's a confirmed fact that it isn't), then it isn't an alternative.

As I said in my previous post, it is fiction to think the Green Energy Act is saving anyone's life, now or in the future.

The renewables that we're massively subsidizing don't even come close to producing enough energy to make any difference. And that isn't expected to change.

Anything that gets us to burn less coal is worth supporting.

 

[Moviefan-2]

Anything that gets us to burn less coal is worth supporting.

"Anything"? :Eek:

 

[groggy]

"Anything"? :Eek:

Any energy policy. Stupid short posts from my phone.

And what would you suggest to alleviate ontario's energy woes?

 

[Moviefan-2]

Any energy policy. Stupid short posts from my phone.

And what would you suggest to alleviate ontario's energy woes?

If the government wants to proceed with its agenda to reduce the use of coal, the emphasis should be on nuclear and gas (which, in fact, is how coal is currently being replaced in Ontario).

I would scrap the Green Energy Act and end the fiction that renewables are making any difference. That would also make it easier to end the subsidies to ratepayers that are driving up the deficit.

 

[Lovehobby]

If the government wants to proceed with its agenda to reduce the use of coal, the emphasis should be on nuclear and gas (which, in fact, is how coal is currently being replaced in Ontario).

I would scrap the Green Energy Act and end the fiction that renewables are making any difference. That would also free up potential savings to help reduce the annual deficits.

Nuclear is totally unaffordable on a $/KWH basis. Gas is OK as a bridge to renewables. Nothing more. We need to phase out all nuclear and fossil ASAP.

 

[Moviefan-2]

We need to phase out all nuclear and fossil ASAP.

You're dreaming.