South African president wants to seize land from white farmers without compensation

[JohnLarue]

As you are not Nostradamus, What you mean is:

"I predict that It (SA) will not survive if they expropriate the land.
and that An economic & humanitarian crisis will almost surely follow.
I would not bet against a civil war either"

What I wrote is exactly what you wrote without the pretentious critique by the grammar police.
Another reason to not like you
DO NOT Tell me what I meant
You have a reading comprehension problem so you should concentrate on understanding what the message is

I do not believe in your prediction. South Africa has transferred partial ownership of mining companies to blacks, essentially without compensation, as the mining companies were forced to loan the money to the purchasers.
The reactions have not so far been significant for the South African economy, and if the land reform is done gradually, I believe the results will be negative but not catastrophic for the economy. Don't compare South Africa to Zimbabwe in terms of industrial development and resilience.

Says the fool who does not understand the basics of credit worth

Remember that South Africa survived a long time under severe sanctions during Apartheid, when nobody wanted to invest in South Africa.

??
Are you just being obstinate?

during Apartheid Law & order were maintained. Brutally and immorally, but it was still maintained
Educated people with experience & money managed the country and the farms

Who the heck do you think would take up arms against ANC?

Hello, the starving people when the farm yields drop by 50%
That's who
No money for fuel, equipment or fertilizers will almost guarantee that

There are about 30,000 white owned commercial farms in South Africa.
You may not be aware that the "british ancestry" South Africans, in places like Cape Town have no love for the Boers.

irrelvant

By the way, I do not believe that the ANC leadership is in favor of confiscation without compensation. However, in a democracy they are not able to resist the will of the population any longer.

No democracy will ever survive if property rights & rule of law are trampled on
when property rights are ignored the money leaves faster than you can say "Civil war"

Its time you clued in
Expropriation will end in disaster. PERIOD

 

[danmand]

What I wrote is exactly what you wrote without the pretentious critique by the grammar police.
Another reason to not like you
DO NOT Tell me what I meant
You have a reading comprehension problem so you should concentrate on understanding what the message is




Says the fool who does not understand the basics of credit worth



??
Are you just being obstinate?

during Apartheid Law & order were maintained. Brutally and immorally, but it was still maintained
Educated people with experience & money managed the country and the farms




Hello, the starving people when the farm yields drop by 50%
That's who
No money for fuel, equipment or fertilizers will almost guarantee that



irrelvant


No democracy will ever survive if property rights & rule of law are trampled on
when property rights are ignored the money leaves faster than you can say "Civil war"

Its time you clued in
Expropriation will end in disaster. PERIOD

Your repeated insults are not strengthening your arguments. People do not have a comprehension problem because they disagree with you.

I am not going to stoop to your level, so I am finished discussing with you.

 

[Aardvark154]

Your repeated insults are not strengthening your arguments. People do not have a comprehension problem because they disagree with you.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

 

[JohnLarue]

Your repeated insults are not strengthening your arguments. People do not have a comprehension problem because they disagree with you.

I am not going to stoop to your level, so I am finished discussing with you.

They have a reading comprehension problem when I write " Expropriation will end in a economic and humanitarian disaster"
& They respond with

"You are a racist"

or

"Aardie and laRue are just venting their frustrations that Apartheid fell. They are not doing anything about it."

or

You must be a radical communist, if you think it is better to confiscate the white farmers land without compensation than to expropriate at fair market prices payable in government bonds.

or

I suspect you will get your wish of the South African Government confiscating the land without compensation.

I made no reference to race, I took no explicit position on Apartheid , I took no explicit position on compensation vs no compensation (both are the same in your messed up scenario) and I expressed no inclination of what I want to happen

Clearly you did not comprehend what I wrote, so you have a reading comprehension problem


Do you have idea how insulting "You must be a radical communist" is????
If it were not so blatantly stupid I would have been very insulted

Stoop to my level?
Is that a joke you are trying to make
Take some 101 economics so you can understand what your are taking about

 

[JohnLarue]

If the majority of the population here was native and we were still in a democracy, then quite possibly yes.
Same with the other two examples.

Majority has nothing to do with it
How does the true right to an acre of land "stolen" centuries ago differ depending upon the current distribution of race within a country ?
A native in southern Ontario in the 1700s would have called your home his land back then, why are his descendants less entitled to the land than a native in South Africa ?
Because the Europeans who came to North America were more efficient than the Europeans who took over south Africa at decimating the native population & turning the native population into a minority?

That s one dim bulb you have


Besides I believe you stated "there are no races & we are all just people"
By your (messed up) race logic the people who lost the land centuries ago can not be linked to anyone alive today, so no claim in either case

 

[Frankfooter]

Majority has nothing to do with it

Do you not support democracy?

 

[Conil]

They have a reading comprehension problem when I write " Expropriation will end in a economic and humanitarian disaster"
& They respond with

or

or

or


I made no reference to race, I took no explicit position on Apartheid , I took no explicit position on compensation vs no compensation (both are the same in your messed up scenario) and I expressed no inclination of what I want to happen

Clearly you did not comprehend what I wrote, so you have a reading comprehension problem


Do you have idea how insulting "You must be a radical communist" is????
If it were not so blatantly stupid I would have been very insulted

Stoop to my level?
Is that a joke you are trying to make
Take some 101 economics so you can understand what your are taking about

LOL Johnny be good, D is not all there.

 

[JohnLarue]

LOL Johnny be good, D is not all there.

That explains a lot
OK

 

[JohnLarue]

Do you not support democracy?

Do you not comprehend ?
All of North America is democratic & South Africa is a democracy & each have rule of law wrt land titles
Yet you want re-align property rights based on the distribution of race?
Because our forefathers excelled at decimating the native population & turning the native population into a minority, we get to maintain property rights ?
ie benefit from a past evil ???

Again you have an ever dimming bulb

you stated "there are no races & we are all just people"
Yet you want to re-distribute based on race
You really like to re-distribute & ignore property rights don't you?

 

[Frankfooter]

Do you not comprehend ?
All of North America is democratic & South Africa is a democracy & each have rule of law wrt land titles
Yet you want re-align property rights based on the distribution of race?

If you support democracy you support the rule of the majority?
Do you not support democracy?

Again you have an ever dimming bulb

you stated "there are no races & we are all just people"
Yet you want to re-distribute based on race
You really like to re-distribute & ignore property rights don't you?

Speaking of dim bulbs, once again the point went over your head.
Try again.
There are no genetic races of humans but we do differentiate between cultural differences that we refer to as races.
So yes, there are cultural races of humans, just not genetic races.

 

[Insidious Von]

Not going to happen.

If an ultra corrupt politician like Jacob Zuma didn't do it, Ramaphosa wont. The ANC cannot endure an extended famine like Zimbabwe without becoming a brutal dictatorship. That's not going to happen, the army and the judiciary won't support it.

 

[JohnLarue]

If you support democracy you support the rule of the majority?
Do you not support democracy?

Asked and answered already dummy

If you trample on property rights you get immediate negative money flows & currency devaluation, followed by sustained hyperinflation.
Hyperinflation leads to civil unrest & the end of democracy, usually by some military strongman who turns the country into his personal fiefdom

Almost as sure as night follows day

Speaking of dim bulbs, once again the point went over your head.
Try again.
There are no genetic races of humans but we do differentiate between cultural differences that we refer to as races.
So yes, there are cultural races of humans, just not genetic races.

You think you get to redefine race when convenient?
Nope

How does one prove one is or is not a member of the cultural race which is to receive the free land?
By saying he is?
By putting his hand UP?
They should expect a million or two immigrants from surrounding countries with legitimate claims to have the same culture as long as they get free land.

you really do not have a clue


Do you not comprehend ?
All of North America is democratic & South Africa is a democracy & each have rule of law wrt land titles
Yet you want re-align property rights based on the distribution of race?
Because our forefathers excelled at decimating the native population & turning the native population into a minority, we get to maintain property rights ?
ie benefit from a past evil ???

 

[Frankfooter]

Asked and answered already dummy

If you trample on property rights you get

I see, so you support property rights over democracy.
That explains a lot.

You think you get to redefine race when convenient?

No, its based on science, its not a personal definition.
There are no genetic human races, that's the consensus finding in science.

 

[Aardvark154]

I see, so you support property rights over democracy.
That explains a lot.

Mob rule and the tyranny of the majority is not democracy.

This was a problem that the Framers of the American Republic clearly saw with Westminster style Parliaments. Unfortunately over two centuries later it is still something that has not been addressed.

 

[JohnLarue]

I see, so you support property rights over democracy.
That explains a lot.

My god you are stupid
That is not what I said
Democracy will not survive if you trample on property rights.
Once again you try to imply what I say & once again you got it all wrong.
Do you not tire of always getting it wrong?
Or are you just plain accustom to getting it wrong and it no longer bothers you?

So yes, there are cultural races of humans, just not genetic races.

So how you identify the culture(s) which should receive the free land from expropriation ?
How many different cultures exist within the population of South Africa 100-200? Which one is the majority?
Any written records identifying individuals as belonging to one culture relative to another?
What about the descendants of slaves who forcibly removed from their culture / land over the centuries?
They should have just a strong a claim as anyone else?
What about descendants of mixed-race parents ? Did you envision them getting half as many acres?
What about the descendants those who left South Africa emigrated over the centuries. Is their claim discounted?
What about some white dudes who now embrace one of the many black cultures in order to get some acres?
What happens when one group/ culture gets the rich valley land, while another gets the rocky scrub land?

look dummy, ever since the invention of farming, land transfer have been facilitated by either force or by payment
Any such mass expropriation and redistribution without full payment will end in disaster and bloodshed
Any you want to manage it using your self serving definition of cultural race?

The hamster is on the wheel, but he ain't running

 

[Frankfooter]

My god you are stupid
That is not what I said
Democracy will not survive if you trample on property rights.

You just said the same thing again, you value property rights over democracy.
Thanks.

look dummy, ever since the invention of farming, land transfer have been facilitated by either force or by payment

I see, so you just support land transfer by force when its by colonialists.

 

[JohnLarue]

You just said the same thing again, you value property rights over democracy.
Thanks.

Point where I used the words "I value"

I see, so you just support land transfer by force when its by colonialists.

No you do not see

Again point where I said "I support"

When I tell you
"Democracy will not survive if you trample on property rights." I am not stating I support one relative to another,.
Rather is a statement that the success of Democracy is dependent upon maintaining the integrity of property rights.

Similarly one can say Tampa Bays team defense is better than the Toronto Maples Leafs
You would incorrectly imply that this life long leaf fan supports Tampa Bay over Toronto

And as always you would be wrong

You are too stupid to make rational arguments based upon the facts and logic so you revert back to incorrectly implying what you want me to have said
You have the intellect of a child

The hamster is on the wheel, but he ain't running

 

[Frankfooter]

Point where I used the words "I value"

Democracy will not survive if you trample on property rights.

You are stating that you think South African democracy will fail if they implement the will of the masses over the property rights of a few.

Again point where I said "I support"
ever since the invention of farming, land transfer have been facilitated by either force or by payment
Any such mass expropriation and redistribution without full payment will end in disaster and bloodshed

You argue that colonized farms in South Africa which were facilitated through force by colonialists should stand while democratic decisions to return that land should not happen.

 

[FAST]

As has been said by many,... if this happens,... just another shit hole in the making.

Stealing/communism,... does NOT work in the long term,... everybody looses.

 

[JohnLarue]

You are stating that you think South African democracy will fail if they implement the will of the masses over the property rights of a few.

That is the economic reality of it.
Democracy will not survive if you trample on property rights.
Money vital for the countries stability will leave faster than you can say expropriation.
Food production will precipitously drop, Hyperinflation will occur & anarchy will follow & some strong man will take power
Democracy is dependent upon maintaining rule of law & the integrity of property rights


That does not mean that I value property rights more or less than democracy.

Get it now ?

You argue that colonized farms in South Africa which were facilitated through force by colonialists should stand while democratic decisions to return that land should not happen.

No I did not argue or say that .

Again you assume way too much & draw incorrect & really stupid/ insulting conclusions.
You keep on doing this and getting it wrong. (over and over again)

I made no judgement on the morality of how the current title holders obtained their land.
Only that they are the legal title holders and have property rights
& since Democracy will not survive if you trample on property rights:
It should be clear that expropriation will result in the loss of democracy and a lot of human suffering

BTW the previous native owners likely gained the land by force if you trace the history.
The Zulus were a fierce bunch and feared as highly organized and skilled warriors.
What are the odds they never put those skills to use picking up territory prior to the arrival of the Europeans ?

So when do you draw the line in history when determining true ownership of land?
When whitey showed up?
But according to you there are no races, only different cultures